Subwoofer suggestions for budget system?

@soix I did, I took a little break, I am back to tweaking again. I just figured out that  phasing and placement go hand in hand (and then I read up on it and confirmed it) baby steps :)

@grislybutter Have you tried switching the phase on the sub to see if that yields any improvement?

that's the last step indeed, using the speaker connections. I am a bit reluctant since the sub has a monster amp but still, there would not be any phasing issues. 

REL -6dB sub bass speakers are limited to de-tented crossover and phase control. Reducing volume is their most effective control. 

The three bare wire high-speaker level to the amplifier output connectivity  (yet another input/output circuit for the source signal to pass through, limited by the amplifiers low frequency response)  was originally used, and is a convenience for customers lacking preamplifier outputs as do many other subs. Balanced output be informed.

You'll find Mr. Lord's unchanged connectivity now produced offshore is described as system and room integration lauded by mostly new owners without any other subwoofer experience.

Even the practically foolproof and more economical Swarm system has one band of parametric equalization.

On the other hand: if your speakers are very small or your amplifier is under powered, you may find the speaker level connectivity more desirable. You'll still need to deal with any room frequency issues. Those chrome bits and shinny finish are attractive.  

@soix yes it definitely adds depth, almost like going from 2D to 3D and the dynamics of changing where instrument x comes from.

Sometimes it reverbs when it just should not, which must be phasing and location issue. Maybe my room is too small to make it work (my brain is too small to make it work:) )

I feel like I should try REL before I fully blame myself: REL T ZERO MK III

@grislybutter Yeah, unfortunately two subs solve a lot of issues, but I hope things at least sound better with the one sub.  🤞🤞🤞  Have you noticed improvements in imaging/soundstage along with deeper bass?

@soix 

I made some progress with the SVS. The Klipsch is just too hard to blend in, I never found the sweet spot. It's very possible that it's me not the sub, and it's just a lot more testing. It seems that there is no one setting, one place that fills the room correctly for every track and genre, maybe that's why people use 2?

@m-db

yes I am dealing with a lot of limitations, making slow progress.... and it's not even my post :)

Your Dynaudio"s are not at all the issue.

Where are that rooms bass modes?

With five corners in that room I’d be surprised if the mode you say your hearing between your speakers is a major culprit.

Unless you consider a subwoofer swarm no amount of equalization, room optimization processing or brand of subwoofer can solve the lack of placement flexibility and/or cable limitations you seem to be dealing with.

I should add: the labels on the back of the Klipsch are not possible to read. Who designed it? I took pictures of it with my phone and DSRL and still cannot read the numbers 

thanks @soix I will look for a used Vandersteen one. I think it's hard to pair Dynaudio speakers with subs (my lame excuse) as the Evokes are so relaxed, musical and warm.  

@grislybutter If I was you I’d search out a Rhythmic sub.  I think, if using the techniques you used with the SVS, you might find what you’re looking for although maybe at a slightly higher price.  Or even better yet, a used Vandersteen 2wq.  That’d be your best bet.

@soix so I was confused about the SVS, and went out and picked up a Klipsch Reference R-120SW sub and I am glad I did. It’s a much bigger box and sounds profoundly different. If the SVS is a bobcat, the Klipsch is a lion. It makes the room feel much bigger. However it’s very raw, aggressive, a bit tiring. I feel like I was in a DISCO for an hour and I just spent 20 minutes with it, my head is buzzing. So the ideal solution must be somewhere in between. (And I am still not a Klipsch fan but I appreciate the scale)

It feels like it’s absolutely possible to live without a sub but may not be worth all that much without it :)

so I just listened to Bohemian Rhapsody and I was like: wow, it's finally come together. And then I noticed the sub wasn't on. Baby steps....

Maybe try reducing crossover closer to 40Hz and see what that does at higher volumes?  Sounds like you might be getting too much overlap between sub and speakers as volume increases.  Just a thought, but I totally hear ya on the 3D imaging thing.  It’s amazing what subs can do in that regard.  Try turning it off in the middle of a song and watch how everything collapses.  Crazy. 

I keep the crossover low (50-ish) since the Dyna's claim 40Hz–23kHz
I need to figure out if the phase change helps, if only my CFO would do the nob turning for me :)
I'd say the best part is, when the SVS works right, the 3D effect really kicks in. I am all about vocals so my main concern is to keep it bright, forward as if the singer was right in front of me, not behind the drums and I sense that deep bass can swallow the room easily

Evoke 20s on my custom stands
 

Experiment with lowering the crossover and volume if things are getting unwieldy when you turn up the volume as that shouldn’t happen with proper setup. What Dynes do you have and where do you currently have the crossover set? You might also try placing the sub in one of the other places you found to be good for a sub while you were crawling around like a baby audiophile. Heh heh. Seriously though, nice work and you’re clearly benefitting significantly from all your efforts (and I’d think probably learning a lot too — always good). I think you’re now seeing why the SB1000 Pro is desireable with its integration app that you can use from your listening chair to make adjustments. That said, if you haven’t already it’d probably be a huge help to have someone else slowly adjust the crossover/volume/phase while you sit in the listening position. I could see that being pretty tough to do on your own.

and it does sound better, especially at lower volumes, like under 80db

@soix I did what the manual said. It sounds better. Still reading up on it and tweaking. Maybe there is no chemistry between Dynaudio and SVS :) 

@grislybutter Great!  Did you get the crossover, volume and phase set properly?  How does it sound now?

@m-db - I set it up according to the quick manual and no I did not map my room nodes - yet, more to learn for me.

@soix 

thanks! I started the crawl and I found it to be best between the standmount speakers, by the back wall. I don't think anything is wrong with the sub. I tried a longer cable to move it to the sidewall and it was very muted. My better RCA cables are 6 feet and I am wary of using barrel connectors. On the "plus" side, my CFO told me not to get attached to it, I only got approval for trying it out and returning it :)
I am browsing used ads, I think a smaller, older unit could get the job done.

That location seems questionable to me. Did you map your rooms modes and nulls using the crawl test with the sub playing tones at the listening position? 

Contacting SVS may provide some improvement.

@grislybutter When you say “terrible,” what specifically do you mean? It’s possible you’ve got the volume and/or crossover set too high and/or placed in a bad spot. Here’s a quick n easy guide to help at least get the sub’s settings properly dialed in.

https://lifehacker.com/how-to-properly-set-your-subwoofers-volume-without-sh-1506136549

But before doing that I’d do the “sub crawl” method so you can to identify optimal placement areas for the sub in your room. Basically you place the sub on the listening chair where you’ll do your listening, put on a bass-heavy track, and then crawl around your room (so your ears are at the same level as the sub) and identify the place(s) where the bass sounds best (tightest,well-integrated/balanced, tuneful) and mark them with tape. Choose the spot that works best for you in the room and then calibrate the sub’s settings as per the instructions in the above link. If you do this and the sub still doesn’t sound good I’d be concerned there may be something wrong going on with the sub. Last, SVS has excellent customer support and I wouldn’t hesitate to call them if all else fails. Hope this helps — now, on your knees boy!

@m-db, @soix 

so my SVS SB-1000 arrived and so far it sounds terrible (worse than that). It's possible my room will never accommodate a sub. But I am not done playing with the placement and settings. It is also true that the music I listen to is mostly mid and high range of frequencies.  I understand the 2 subs argument but I have neither the space nor the budget. Not only that, my path to get there would lead to first one sub and if I am unhappy with one, I don't feel I would have the urge that I must have one more! :)

Thanks for your insight and advice, guys like you make this a great forum!

@grislybutter Decent subs properly implemented can transform system performance not only by providing full-range bass but by also improving imaging and greatly expanding the soundstage and sense of space. Two decent subs will likely be better than one great sub as they can much better deal with room nodes and more evenly energize/pressurize the room. Also each sub will likely not need to work as hard as a single sub. Once you listen with two well-ingrated subs you won’t wanna listen without them anymore as the whole sonic experience collapses and becomes overall less involving without them. I recommend two SVS SB1000 Pro subs as they come with very helpful integration software, get down to an honest 20Hz, and only cost $1150 for two (or less if you buy from their Outlet) and offer a truly risk-free 45-day trial period (including return shipping) along with excellent customer support if needed. If they don’t completely transform your listening experience just return them. Just my thoughts/experience FWIW.

[grislybutter,   'Is this true, always? Do I need a sub? If I mostly listen to music with little low frequencies (I think?) in a small room,']

Of course you don't need a sub...or two or eight. Many simply enjoy what the addition of subwoofer/s bring to their systems overall presentation regardless of the main speakers response. 

There are manufacturers that offer trial periods and the support to get the system dialed in.    

Capable subwoofer systems are a worthy investment. They're an audio component unto themselves that should complement any future speaker or system changes. The phrase, 'matching your subwoofer to your speakers,' can be a red flag. 

Hop off that fence. The sound down here is terrific.

@m-db 

"Any subwoofer is better than no subwoofer. "

I am on the fence about starting a post with this. Is this true, always? Do I need a sub? If I mostly listen to music with little low frequencies (I think?) in a small room,

What are the rules for having to have a sub (or 2)? Why 2?

It is very difficult to integrate sub with main speakers seamlessly especially the texture and speed of the bass notes.  Maybe the servo controlled sub will (has not tried) but it is usually pricey for a good one.  There are budgetary floorstander or standmount speakers could get down low to 20-30 hz range but keep good tonal balance.

Thanks grisly never heard of them. Good to know. Small amp cross country UPS is $75

@jl45 I just shipped a giant Yamaha subwoofer for $45 to the opposite corner of the country, 3-5 business day.

ParcelMonkey.

+1 SVS Outlet deal..

After running out of funds I picked up a couple of Sony 12" subs for $50 each on Craigslist to pair with my Maggie 3.7i . I set the subs at about 50 hz and keep their volume low as not to get any boominess and run the 3 7i full range they integrate real well together . Audiophile friends and musicians that stop in are amazed at the great sound. By playing around you can achieve good sound at a reasonable price.

My friend picked up a free Mirage sub from a neighbor and integrated it with his LRS using the same technique just setting the sub to about 80 hz and it too sounds good.

Good luck

only a very very small sub can be shipped a short distance for under $40, unless you are buying a new one from a big dealer with shipping contracts...

@grislybutter -- thanks for the correction. Makes me feel better about my own ability to sell a sub, someday, if I downsize.

I think shipping is free? 

https://www.parts-express.com/8-Wireless-Subwoofer-Package-with-Dayton-Audio-SUB-800-300-5791

Any subwoofer is better than no subwoofer. 

@hilde45 shipping for a 12" sub with UPS ground anywhere in the lower 48 < $40. Not worth driving around for hours

what type of music do you listen to that you are missing the low frequencies for?

I am in the same boat - low budget, considering a sub - but I am not sure it would make a significant difference for me

$200-300 is pretty low. Subs are heavy to ship. If this was me, I'd search US AudioMart using my zip code and a 100 mile radius to see who nearby wanted to sell a subwoofer; then, assuming it looked ok as a deal, I'd arrange a local pickup. This strategy avoids the costs and risks of shipping and maximizes the value. 

I owned the Magnepans .7 and bass supported these with two RELs Quake MKII. Even these 'little' Maggies needed just a hint of extra bass from these subs, They  have a decent set of controls to set them up to taste. This combination really sounded great for me. Of course this also depends on the kind of music you listen to. I'd start with one (second hand) REL and later, after some saving, when your budget allows it again, buy the second one. I'm quite shure you won't be disappointed. I wish you luck in choosing!

Lots to think on, lots to consider.  I appreciate everyone's input!

Keeping the bass out of the Maggies requires a subwoofer with a low-level high-pass filter that can be set to 60Hz. In turn, that requires line level cables to the sub and back to your power amp, adding complexity and expense to your system, as well as limiting subwoofer placement. The SVS 3000 Micro is the least expensive subwoofer that I am aware of that would complement your 1.6s and has adequate bass management. 

$200-$300 will not buy you a very good sounding subwoofer. Keep your eyes open for a used Martin Logan Dynamo 1000W, (hopefully around $400 used). They are excellent for music, very un-colored and "quick" sounding. Also, a used REL T-7 series for around $500. 

I disagree w Millercarbon.

That said, how about an SVS Micro 3000... that comes w all sorts of adjustability, crossover tweaks, equalization to a certain extent even.  

a dipole sub with a high quality crossover that won't hurt the Maggies is not possible at your price point, you would need to go way higher, especially for the crossover...the REL T/Zero works great with smaller Maggies but does not filter out bass to the main speakers...

I bought a used Hsu ULH15 Mk II, and found that it filled in a whole missing dimension to my music. The cost wouldn’t be unreachable from your starting budget.  After all, what do you get for $100 today?  Then I added a Paradigm Monitor 12in sealed sub that I found on Craigslist for $75.  Worked for me.