STREAMING - QOBUZ VS TIDAL AND ROON'S PREFERENCES

@ghdprentice Very nicely stated and quite true!

@ghdprentice  "

There is a point with really great equipment that it all sounds pretty great… then one versus the other is splitting the difference between really really good and really good.

And it's a point that many audiophiles, as obsessed as we can tend to be, sometimes forget... the point to enjoy the music; the music is the endpoint, not the gear.

@cleeds

Indeed files altered with MQA are not "bit-perfect". That was Neil Young’s issue with the way they were advertising his music. If they were altered in anyway, then they weren’t HIS "studio masters". I wish MQA would go away. There’s been lots of discussion regarding it and most technical people (engineers) who have tested it with measuring equipment says that it does alter the files, and most damning, they say only a bat could hear the sight difference. And people can argue all day if the difference is somehow "better" than the original.

If Tidal is selling their CD quality Hi-Fi tier and providing downsampled files with MQA stripped out then yeah, they might sound OK (and they do) but once again, they aren’t "bit-perfect" compared to the commercially released Redbook CD.

High resolution files don’t mean much to me unless they were recorded originally in DSD. (When I record live concerts to put on the Internet Live Music Archive I do use 24-bit/48Khz PCM to push down the noise floor a bit). I’m happy with CD quality for everything else, (hence my disdain for Spotify lying to us all last year). I just wish I could get the same "data" exactly as it would be from a commercially released Redbook CD of the same title.

If Deezer or Qobuz provides that, I’ll be a happy camper. Looking forward to trying Qobuz.

I note in Qobuz's advertising blurb on their website:  "Currently, Qobuz has more than 240,000 albums in Hi-Res audio quality. This collection is constantly being added to with new releases and re-issues. In addition, Qobuz offers over 80 million tracks in lossless CD quality."

This has been an awesome conversation and really expanded to not only file quality, but how to get the best out of our digital experience. As @ghdprentice nicely stated, with effort and improvements we can get amazing sound from digital.  And yes, at a high level, Tidal is very close to Qobuz most of the time.  As I read everyone's histories and experiences with digital, It really closely mirrors mine.

Didn't we all start with a Node?  It was so much better than airplaying my itunes to apple TV.  I had a Node in one system,  a Power Node in another, and a Pulse 2 in my office.  Then Roon , with quickly a lifetime subscription.  I visited a dealer looking at a Parasound Hint integrated, with built in DAC.  Sounded fine. Until  he switched to an Esoteric DAC and I was blown away.  Sounded like completely different amp and speakers...it was all the streamer and DAC! The rabbit hole opened widely in front of me and for the next two years I searched for that sound.

I ended up with amazing Audionet Pre and Max Amps, And upgraded my DAC to first a PS Audio Direct Stream, and then an Auralic Vega G2 (streamer and DAC). This was a nice improvement.  Then I demoed the Mola Mola Tambaqui and wanted it within 60 seconds.  So much more open and complete, but natural and easy to love.  Separate streamer?  Never even heard of it or understood it.  After all, my Tambaqui (and previous Auralic and even also previous PS Audio all had built in streamers).  What?  But my dealer had never led me astray, and explained the benefits of a separate streamer.  As one fellow Agonner said to me, 'Ken you have a Lamborghini for a DAC and are feeding it regular gas!'.  So enter the Auralic Aries G2.1 streamer with usb output to my Tambaqui, all with nice Kubala- Sosna cables. Guess what?  Further improvements, more open, more natural. Everything does matter. My Muon streaming system arrived last night and I Love it also...It is home playing in all day for me.  Nick at Network Acoustics went through my system with me and gave me specific advice.  Great guy.  Add him to GTT audio for great support.  Yes it is all for the music and our audio Nirvana.  Anyone around Baltimore / Washington is welcome for a visit!

And guess what?  My Sean Jacobs custom power supply is coming soon for my Auralic Aries!

moonwatcher

... I just wish I could get the same "data" exactly as it would be from a commercially released Redbook CD of the same title. If Deezer or Qobuz provides that, I’ll be a happy camper. I note in Qobuz's advertising blurb on their website:  "Currently, Qobuz has more than 240,000 albums in Hi-Res audio quality. This collection is constantly being added to with new releases and re-issues. In addition, Qobuz offers over 80 million tracks in lossless CD quality."

Yes, Qobuz files are lossless CD quality. Or better. No doubt about it.

MQA is a scam. See expose by Goldensound:

a more balanced view

always helpful to hear the various and numerous qualified opinions...

as of their latest build, Roon does allow you to select a preferred streaming service.

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/streaming-content-preferences

Hello @rmdtexas !  Wow thanks!!!  That is exactly what I was initially asking!

Now I did the Roon update, selected prefer Qobuz, and selected rate MQA as below CD quality but above lossy.  I would never have seen that, so very very much appreciated.  I hope this helps others, and look forward to continuing conversations of achieving great streaming quality!  Ken

With critical listening from both Tidal and QoBuz, I favor definitely QoBuz over Tidal for sound quality.  The better your digital components, the easier it will be to detect the differences with less noise and jitter...  

For all who use the Innuos/Roon/Qobuz combo as I do

try comparing SQ of the above vs Innuos Sense-i.e Roon off.

It is free if you have not tried it.

Go to my.innuos.com and turn off Roon.

Perhaps other makers besides Innuos have a similar option?

Anxious to hear the responses.

In it's simplest form, whether MQA is trying to do a good thing or not, is the fact they are basically DRM's music in a way, creating a proprietary format that requires manufacturers (and ultimately you) to pay them to use it. No thanks 

@fastfreight they literally just added that feature a couple days ago. very nice!

Another feature that's buried in Roon is "Customize album display" In General settings tab. 

@jeffseight I was lucky that Sense came out just before my Roon subscription was set to renew.  I had no reservation choosing Sense's improved SQ over Roon's vast library and search functions.  

And yes Qobuz is better than Tidal by enough I cancelled my Tidal subscription.

Amen anza!

Arriving at a verdict is simple. Try Tidal and Qobuz on your system and compare. Both have free trials. there’s no need for others opinions, like mine, which is that Qobuz works better on my system. Enjoy comparing and then listening!

I have been using Tidal HiFi ($19.99 plan) for years now and recently got a new 2 channel system and wanted to try something different because I wasn't blown away by the sound with Tidal.  I now have a Prima Luna Evo 400 integrated amp and GoldenEar Triton One.R speakers.  My source is a Bluesound Node streaming over WiFi and then through Music Fidelity MX-DAC (lovely sounding and affordable btw).  I have always been suspicious of MQA because I could never hear a difference with it on or off and don't understand the unfolding process.  I am blown away by the difference Qobuz makes ($12.99 plan).  The soundstage opened up and the mid-bass and bass is much stronger.  I had to dial back the subwoofer sections of my tower speakers because the bottom end was so much stronger.  I think the sound is more balanced now and it sounds stunning.  As far as the interface I think they both leave something to be desired.  I would love to see more options for sorting songs within favorites and playlists.  Also I found that all of my music library was licensed to stream with Qobuz when many songs no longer were with Tidal.  

My 2 cents.  Thanks, James. 

Until around 2 months ago I was using a modded Node N130 as a Roon endpoint, streaming Qobuz and Tidal. I moved to an Innuos Zen Mini Mkiii, tried that as a Roon Core - it seemed hellbent on downsampling almost everything I played (my DAC is capable if 24/192).

I took my Zen out of Roon Core mode, and tried Sense - all I'll say is I cancelled my Roon subscription pretty quickly. I also cancelled Tidal; I was never really interested in MQA, and for me, Tidal just sounds a little flatter than Qobuz, comparing the same tracks from each platform

Been playing with Spotify and Qobuz. SQ on Qobuz is better, but one of the things I enjoy most about streaming is putting in the name of a favorite artist and listening through a playlist of similar artists, many that I’ve never heard of. A great way to discover new music. For example, on Spotify I’ll put in Jacky Terrason, then select Jacky Terrason Radio. I get a great playlist of similar style jazz. That’s how I discovered Hiromi and Snorre Kirk.

Is it possible to do something similar on Qobuz? I’m not interested in playlists all from the same artist. Rather from lots of artists of similar type.

@chocaholic I feel like Roon Radio is pretty close to Spotify’s artist’s radio that you had mentioned; maybe not as good. Roon Radio usually begins after playing a single track that I had selected or after an album ends - can’t remember if I had set it this way or if this was default. 

I will add my input to all of those who preceded me. I am an avid user of Roon and yes, I compared Qobuz to Tidal and it became obvious in short order that I preferred Qobuz. My Tidal subscription was never renewed. Now the interesting test that I did not do is to do the Qobuz vs Tidal test using Roon with HQPlayer. Has anyone done that comparison? Thanks.