I am looking to complete/upgrade my hifi setup and would appreciate divergent thoughts on the topic.
System: McIntosh MA252 Hybrid, Spendor D7, Node 2 for Tidal. Budget: Anything under $3000. Based in Belgium with a journey to the States in the summer.
I listen to Tidal 95% of the time. The Node2 is fine, but is now the weak link in my system. I've heard the Chord DAVE and the Qutest, both good. I found Mytek LIberty and Brooklyn + to not do much beyond the Node. Surprising.
As I pretty much only use Tidal and will never use a computer or Roon etc., I want one more box to either improve the Node2 or replace it. I don't want to open up the MQA debate, bit it would be nice to have a MQA capable device.
I am also about to update my antiquated hifi system and am waiting for the new Spendor D7 model (apparently about to be released….they have been especially coy in trying to extract details) to demo with the valvelicious ma252 and contemplating matching either with Qutest/Moon Mind 2 combo or Mcintosh mb50 both about £3000 so likewise in your budget scope. Anyone with experience/views on these potential catwalkers?
I'm currently looking at the RME ADI 2 DAC. I demoed the Qutest and found it opened the sound stage and added some air, but for 1300 euro I'm not hearing enough to justify the cost.
I am also about to update my antiquated hifi system and am
waiting for the new Spendor D7 model (apparently about to be released….they have been especially coy in trying to extract details) to
demo with the valvelicious ma252 and contemplating matching either with Qutest/Moon Mind 2 combo
or Mcintosh mb50 both about £3000 so likewise in your budget scope. Anyone with
experience/views on these potential catwalkers?
Oldschool: good question. I had a couple of reasons. I wasn’t sure that the MDC was as supported and updatable for the OS as the Node 2 and the price was about the same. Further, I had a different preamp and dac in there when I originally bought the Node 2. But, because of reason 1, I’d go the same route again today. Best,
I just added a Bryston BDP3 to my two channel System. So far listening playing it over usb into my Bryston DAC3, it’s killing Bluesound sonically via toslink into the same DAC
I think my experience might be helpful to this discussion.
I have a Node 2 going into an NAD Masters M12 Pre/DAC - which is a pretty nice DAC. I’ve had some issues with networking via Wifi w/ the Node 2 but that was solved (I hope permanently) by connecting via Ethernet.
Connecting the Node 2 to my DAC was an audio quest digital cable (don’t remember which one but it was about $150 if I remember correctly) via coax to my DAC. I decided to try a Nordost Hymdal digital cable (true 75 ohm BNCs) and asked my wife what she thought. She doesn’t really care about any of this but she clearly heard a difference as did I. Not a night and day difference, but certainly the Nordost cable just offered “more”.
Steve at Empirical Audio, who posts here frequently, can be credited with convincing me that a true 75 ohm digital cable (and most are not) is important. He wrote a white paper on it and I found his arguments logical and they are now backed up by my experience. Cables do matter - even digital - which are transmitting digital information in an analog domain.
Then, to satisfy my own curiosity, I brought my Aurender N100H from another system and inserted it. I connected the Aurender to my DAC via a crystal cable USB cable (USB is the only out on this model Aurender). I started playing the same ripped file on both the Aurender and the Node 2 (the file was stored locally on the Aurender, and the Node 2 played the file (exact same rip) pulled from solid state hard drive on a Mac Mini connected to the network. Certainly this was a more complicated connection, but it’s how I was able to make any comparison.
I was able to switch inputs on my DAC easily to compare the two servers. Of course, the digital cable coming from the Node 2 is vastly more expensive to the USB cable coming from the Aurender, though to be fair, that isn’t a budget cable either. Nevertheless, the Aurender N100 was significantly better than the Node 2. A difference easily discernible by my non audiophile wife.
This difference was true whether playing a ripped file, or streaming via Tidal - which, like the OP, I do at least 75% of the time.
Of course, there is some question about which is ultimately better, USB or Coax. With the equipment I have, I wasn’t able to make that comparison. Based on other discussions, I understand that most believe Coax to be superior which should give the advantage to the Node 2 in this comparison.
While I agree with other posters that the Node 2/2i is a killer device for what it does at the price (and I have 2 of them within my 3 systems), I can say that an outboard DAC yields significant improvements. And, I can say than anyone would easily hear how much better the Aurender is over the Node 2 as a server.
I have the Node2 and today got the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+
I was running Roon over network to the Node 2 and generally quite happy but started playing around with the Pro-jectPre Box S2 Digital over USB from my Win10 PC / Roon Server and noticed a pretty substantial improvement. After listening (it's awesome) over USB to the Brooklyn a while today I bridged the Node back in over coax and found the sound quite a bit thinner than going straight to the DAC.
Hardly scientific of course but the DAC direct route is going to be my standard. I have a Marantz AV7702mkii and I'm running that in direct mode from the Brooklyn ...
I suggest looking at the Lumin D2. Is it a streamer/dac that will do Tidal with full MQA unfolding.
The only inputs are for USB drives, but if you're only going to be streaming Tidal, it shouldn't matter. It has single ended & balanced analog outputs.
In the past I've used an Auralic Mini to Mytek Liberty, Brooklyn+, and Benchmark DAC2HGC. While all of those sounded very good (to me), I enjoy the Lumin D2 more.
I use it with Roon, but it has it's own app, that let's you put in your Tidal credentials, and there you go!
Interesting. I find it hard to believe that the types of wiring differences they cite would create a major sonic change as they are claiming but who knows. I understand your frustration at your dealer not getting you into the 2i at the end of 2 product cycle. For me, I still dont think it would have been worth $500 to upgrade from the 2 to 2i. Perhaps when the next model generation comes out I will consider this.
@djones51 I was lamenting to my dealer yesterday the fact that six months later my Node 2 is replaced by the 2i. He claims he's heard it and there is no difference. I reckon he said it to make me feel better. Many reviews have intimated there is an improvement in sonic quality.
The node2i according to their marketing uses newer tricke down technology from the NAD masters 50.2 which is one of the differences between the 2 and 2i but it does use the same dac as the node2. I have never heard the node2 but the 2i sounds great to my ears.
It's possible this was because of the system, but even when listening closely and the dealer was telling me he was switching I could not hear much difference. For 2K, i need more than that. Even thirty seconds with the Qutest was enough to hear an obvious difference.
I recently purchased a Node 2 to act as a streaming device to output digital signal to a NAD M51 DAC. Once I return home from vacation and get the Node 2 hooked up I'll report back on my experience.
I fully expect, based on feedback across various forums, that the NAD M51 DAC will handily best the internal DAC of the Node 2.
OP i am surprised that you didn’t find the Brooklyn to be an improvement over the DAC in the Node2. I have found the Manhatten, the Bryston DAC3, the Oppo 105, and the PS Audio Digital Link III to be significant upgrades over the Node2 DAC
I would imagine it is system dependent as to the results. But I figured Audio Research had some experience for them to include it in their answer. I will try it sometime, but to busy listening for now.
@theo I read an interesting post from Rob Watts, lead designer at Chord, on Head-Fi. He essentially said, try the different voltages and if you don't hear a difference, don't worry about it. I don't know beans about electronice so the subjective approach is good enough for me.
Alchemyman, I will be curious to see what your thoughts are. I tried 4 different DACs before deciding and the first couple hours had me committed. I am using a Audio Research Ref5se and contacted Audio Research as to what output setting and if there might be a concern of overload, and they said that 3v was no issue. But they went on to add that the Chord products were well respected and that I should experiment on 1,2 or 3 to establish the best sound. Right now I am using 2 and find it sounds so good I see no reason to experiment. I just ordered a new Synergistic Research cable and should have it later this week. I had been using a Kimber AGDL but wanted to get 75ohms. Again let me know what your experience are with the Cutest.
as a side note, I see your speakers are the D7s. What size room are you using them in and how do you like them? Maybe I should have messaged you privately...feel free to respond to reply in private so we don’t go into a tangent.
@theo I just picked up the Qutest for a couple days home demo. As the Pre-Amp of my Mac integrated is tube based, a "valve-head" advised me to set output voltage at 3V. The very initial impressions are that the articulation and space between instruments is enhanced. I need some quality time tomorrow to make some more informed judgements at a greater SPL. And, I need to explore the filters a bit.
I say keep them separate. I am using the Node2 and just bought a Cutest and am very happy for streaming Deezer FLAC. I thought one unit less cables, but upgrading down the road will be easier one piece at a time. My thought, anyway.
Yes, this is a serious option. Outside of the Chord and Mytek Dacs, there is not so much on offer here, or that I am familiar with. Additionally, given that something like the Brooklyn DAC+ has a good ten features I would never use, I don't see the point in paying for them. The Qutest is the only DAC I know of that really seems to be meant for conversion only from a preceding digital source like a transport or streamer.
Finally, I heard both the Brooklyn and Liberty bypassing the Node's DAC into an Octave V40 tube integrated and then into Q Acoustics concept 500 loud speakers. The difference in sonic quality was negligible. I was a bit surprised given Mytek's reputation.
You could also continue to stream from your Node2 but use an upgraded DAC before connecting to your McIntosh. I know many are happy with the Mytek and Benchmark DACs in this same price space. I know there are many other choices.
@three_easy_payments I was looking at the Lumin D2, PS Audio Direct Stream JR/SR, but it seems you need the bridge to get Tidal to work and as I'm looking at the PS Audio Website from Europe I can't get prices. I was thinking about calling them next week. I know the PS is above my enclosed budget. I have also been looking at Schitt as a DAC for the Node. They seem to be quite polarizing.
Using the Node2 I was impressed at how the Chord Qutest enhanced the sound stage, air, space and articulation. I can't say I have an opinion on if it offered "analogue" style sound. I do know that when I changed to the Mac it's tubes added some magic to the equation and make for a more emotional listen. Enhancing this might be interesting. I definitely do not want to go more analytical.
And of course, six months after I purchase the Node 2 they come out with the 2i. Thanks fellas. :)
I have had great success in improving sound quality by using top notch interconnects and power cable on all of my Bluesound devices. I also installed brass cone feet under the unit, which stands on a granite tile.
A lot of fuss for such an affordable unit you ask? - Yep, but it paid off and I have stopped looking for other devices.
Am I bothered that my cables cost more than the Node 2? - not really, ALL components require great cables, so I simply saved a bundle by buying a Node 2 in place of upgrading to a more expensive unit
Allowing any component to perform to it’s best abilities just makes sense to me. The Node 2 is one of those components that improves to levels that far exceeds its modest price tag - it punches way above it’s class!
I stream mainly from my NAS drive and play tracks from MP3 up to 24-192 resolution.
As you can see I’m in the "cables DO make a difference" camp. - that "revelation" did not come over night - I’ve tried different cables of one different types over the last 12 years - more recently I have completed over three years of very detailed cables and connector auditions/evaluations on my modest system - I have also developed my own DIY cables which are exceptional - My system now performs to levels I never expected it to achieve - Like many. I thought component upgrades were the route to achieve improved sound quality - I’ve since learned that even the most modest of components can achieve great sound if treated to great cables - Now, I view my cables just as important to my system as any other component
I was recently confronted with the same decision to upgrade from the Node2. I too wanted a meaningful upgrade as we all know the Node 2 packs an exceptionally large amount of performance into its modest price. I also stream Tidal 95% of the time. Having a similar budget constraint I ultimately decided to go with the Auralic Vega G1. At $3799 USD it's a little above your budget but perhaps still worth considering. An excellent streamer/DAC and made a profoundly positive impact on my system. I A/B'd a bit between the Node 2 and Vega G1 and the impact to the overall dynamics and soundstage were really nice. You get a nice iOS control platform, Tidal integration, MQA, and Roon ready.
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