IMO and in my system high-hats and brushes sound like they should with the Spendor speakers I've owned. In reality they will only sound as good as what your upstream components can deliver to your speakers, your amps in particular. The Spendor's are pretty neutral, so they're not going to get in the way as much as say some electronic components might. As for overly polite, I don't think so. These speakers can rock if they have too. I've played mine loud with rock and alternative music and they chugged along just fine.
The Fritz Carbon 7's are very nice speakers. I had a chance to listen to them for a few days. |
As already mentioned, Fritz Carbon 7s definitely fit bill at your price range. Ditto the Selah Veritas monitor and the North Creek designs. All silk dome designs that are likely excellent choices for people bothered by edgy highs (as am I).
John |
I've heard Merlin VSMs do high-hats and brushes very, very well. All the qualities you seek, plus a delicious delicacy to the sound that is rare and unforgettable. Note that the Merlins I heard were upgraded to a more recent version, and the electronics were very high end. However, with my champagne taste and beer budget, my Ohm Walsh 2000s get me surprisingly close to the Merlins. |
How do high-hats and brushes sound with Spendors and Merlins? |
Overly "polite" is not desirable either.
Do any of these options qualify as overly polite?
My tubed preamp does give me some leeway for "tuning." And I have a large menagerie of NOS flavors.
I wonder how the various recommendations stack up in terms of speed, density, layering, note decay, imaging and air?
Balance is the key. No gaping holes... |
Don't let your solid state amps dissuade you from Merlin or any other brand. Case in point, I am in the minority when I say I preferred solid state amps with my Spendor speakers rather than tubes. However, the combination worked fine and I'd gladly do it again. If Merlin interests you call Bobby and ask him what works best with his speakers and whether your amps would be suitable. He's a straight shooter. |
About Merlin TSM needing "tubes to really shine"... I have a tubed dac and a tubed preamp, but ss monoblocks (albeit designed to sound like a tubed amp). Hmmm. |
Sorry if you're near NYC. |
They need tubes to really shine. I have found the TSM to be wonder. Very easy to place ,as it is a sealed design. Easy to power. I've had mine with a lot of amps and even the mighty NAD 320bee sounded wonderful. Many terrific choices listed above. You could go jolida 202a or cayin a-50t and TSM. With a nice source you'll be there. I use a w4s dac-2 and i added a jla f110. One of the biggest keys to a sealed design, that is often overlooked, is that they are easy to place and play well in poor rooms. Since most of our rooms are poor they really shine. Of couse you could always add room treatment, but often wives a GFs don't allow it and it is somewhat tough to get good guidance on doing it correctly.
As always listening yourself in your room is the only real way to tell. If your near NYC you can listen to my setup.
Cheers. |
Some of us prefer the older OHMs with real Walsh drivers. |
Thanks, Rgs92 and Clio09. Now there's the kind of substantive input I like! |
You need not consider older OHMs from the 80s. Series 2, 3 or current X000 series are the ones to consider. They also will cost more. These are much more refined balanced and detailed in line with other better modern designs but no OHM Walshes including the originals possess the negative characteristics you seek to avoid. |
If you want some good information on Harbeth and Spendor try here: http://www.regonaudio.com/. Also, here is a Spendor 1/2 review I found to be quite a good read: http://www.electrafidelity.com/spendor-12-by-herb-reichert/. I can't speak to Hareth as much, or the post classic series Spendors, but what I can tell you is the three pair of classic series I have owned all had outstanding mid-range and smooth top end. Are they the last word in bass, no, but you'd be surprised how good the bass is if you could focus your attention away from the mid-range long enough to listen to it more closely. Some say Spendor speakers, especially the older ones, are polite. I say they look polite but are quite naughty actually;) Looks are deceiving and so is the Spendor sound. In my experience they are more neutral than Harbeth or most of the British boxes out there. Used prices make them are bargain. |
I have Harbeths (SHL5s), (old) Ohm Walsh 4s, had Aerial 10Ts, and had Von Schweikerts.
My Harbeths can actually ring a bit at the wrong height/angle. I need to place them lower than is advised.
You need to be a little careful with SHL5s to get them right. I kind of think the SHL5s need some tubes up front (I have a tube pre & a solid state amp).
My Aerials also were smooth but with can shriek with some recordings. (Diana Ross, especially).
My Ohms are certainly smooth, but have mid-fi resolution (they are from 1985, though). Not really competitive here.
Von Schweikerts I think are the winner here, with never a sour note in the midrange up to the highest highs, and I always thought (in mine & others in shows) the finest percussion out there. No fatigue. They can have boomy bass if not positioned well or in too small a room, so I think that's the area to concentrate on with VSR. But I think vocals, strings, woodwinds, brass and piano are truly superb on the VSRs I have heard over the years, consistently. So I think they would meet your needs if you can find one (maybe on audiogon) that you can afford.
I kind of feel Von Schweikert is the opposite of Wilson sound, where Wilson has great controlled transparent detailed bass but can have scratchy highs on some recordings, and VSR have great mids-highs, natural and silky but resolved, but sometimes boom a bit and need some care & feeding in this area (which can be done--I've heard it several times). |
Harbeth and Spendor: What are their notable respective STRENGTHS? What are their notable respective WEAKNESSES? |
So far Harbeth and Spendor get the most votes.
Others recommend: Vandersteen, Magneplanar, Ohm, Shelby, Holistic, Reynaud, Von Schweikert, Aerial and Green Mountain.
No votes for Fritz Carbon 7 or Merlin MMI or MME? |
Silverline speakers are what you want. Sonata II'2 can be had at $2000 or under.
Dali Grand speakers can also be had for under $2000, but hard to find used. Both seem to fit exactly what you are looking for. |
I have had the Ohms and the Decware was better, but the Holistic smokes them. |
OHM, Decware ERR, Spendor SP100 (if you can stretch your budget), JMR Bliss (or Trentes if you can find them). Read some of Bob Neill's reviews about the JMR line |
The right OHM Walsh model depends mostly on room size. Larger models use larger models of the OHM CLS Walsh driver, all of which are tuned to sound similar in different size rooms.
I think OHM is running a sale until the end of this month on the latest CLS drivers in refurbished older cabinets that provides extra exceptional value per dollar. |
The closet suggestion I can think of is the Vandersteens. |
Given your stated priorities, I would also recommend Spendor; the SP100 with Sound Anchor stands in particular. Another poster here mentions the 9/1. I owned both for years each, but not at the same time, and although the 9/1 wins the beauty contest, in the end, I found the SP100 more endearing. It will never hurt your ears, and the coherence is very good. A classic speaker that gives a lot of enjoyment, and doesn't distract you from the music's message . |
I second what Mapman said. In your price range, look at the Ohm Walsh 1000. Make sure your room is not too big for them. IME with the 2000s (all the Ohm Walsh speakers are voiced identically), there is no etch, no listening fatigue. Simply fantastic detail with consistent smoothness. IMHO, I think the absence of a crossover below 8kHz is largely responsible. They come with a 120-day in-home trial, so you can hear for yourself, in your room, with your gear, before you commit. |
Vandersteen 1Cs or 2CE Sigs. |
I've had Harbeth's and think they are great. I've been impressed with hearing Spendors and the Adagios too (very impressed with them). |
I'm not looking for "perfect" speakers. I'm looking for speakers that make the best compromises possible at the 2K price point, with lack of harshness or hardness at the top of priority list. |
Von Schweikert VR2 and VR4JR both meet your criteria and both are below $2000 used |
Generally speaking, yuo cannot go wrong with Spendor. They really do nothing wrong. I have had them almost contiuously in either main or BR system for over 30 years. Any time I sold a pair I missed them and ended up buying another. Currently have the minimonitor SA1's in BR system, and they rarely cease to astonish me with what comes out. Of course, YMMV.
Neal |
Pmboyd, When you find the perfect speaker for $2,000 let me know. |
Oh, you'll get a lot of responses, and all will be different |
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Thanks for all your input. Remember, the parameter is 2K... ie, Aerial 5's fall way outside. Also, which Ohm Walsh (number)? Which Spendor? Which Harbeth? |
OHM Walsh on SS amp scores highest in all your areas for me.
Too many to list on tube amp depending on personal preferences. PSB Synchrony is the one I have heard that comes to mind. |
Aerial 5's or Harbeth. To me the Aerials are magic. |
It is amazing what makes a speaker sound bad outside of a poor design. If it is a good design and the cabinent is solid and has decent drivers it is poor internal wiring and cheap crossover parts. I have moded may speakers with better internal wiring and better crossover parts and have had huge results in the right direction. |
Stretch out and try something different. I have been up and down speaker row and having discovered the Holistic Audio H1s, they been a life style change for me. No longer confined to the sweet spot for stereo, totally natural sound, room no longer figures into the equation, and listening to music so much more. It is great to see the expressions on other hi-fi guys faces when they hear these. They hear things they have not heard before without it being thrown with a shovel. Even low level listening is enjoyable, which I always had a problem with before.
Contact Jack Caldwell and talk with him about these. Don't walk down the new speaker path without a consideration given to these. If you would like to talk to me about them contact me with an e-mail. |
Green Mountain Audio.....
Shakey |
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Get a pair of Maggie 1.7's or used 1.6's
Magic |
JMR gets my vote for our requirement. |
I consider the recording the first link. If there is something bad there, certain speakers that may seem neutral, can really emphasize a bad recording. We want to listen to all of our music, without glare, and fatigue. |
The Harbeths are really nice and Merlins are as well. I have not heard the other spekers you have mentioned. |
Shelby + Kroll...I ended my search with a pair of the Nano Monitors and (2) Woffer Monitors. The cleanest most natural speaker I have ever owned. A pair of B-stock Nano's and one Woffer might be had at your $2000.00 price point. I'm driving them with an ATC SIA2-150 integrated ss amp, and will be upgrading my digital front end soon. Even still they sound great with a $300.00 stock cd player.
Good-luck,
Chris |
I'll add another vote for Spendor. I had s5es, not the Classic Series, but I also once auditioned the whole "A" series, and I think the Spendor "house sound" meets your criteria. |
Speakers produce the end result of all that has come before. If your components are hard, grainy, steely, etc., you would choose a speaker that compensates for that so the end result is listenable. This philosophy is enough to drive us audiophiles nuts. I subscribe to the philosophy of getting all the components as flat, free from distortion, etc. as there is (including all cables,). If price is a problem, wait until its not. Compensating for errors farther up is a no way street, and you will never be happy...you will just depleat your bank account looking for perfection. |
I spent 3 days recently listening to Reference 3A MM deCapo's and was totally impressed with the sound, especially in a less than ideal room. Used they are in your price range. There is even a pair listed here right now. Outside of that a set of Spendor Classic series like the 1/2e should qualify. |
$2,000 or less used/new speakers free of grain, glare and steel, but with detail, extension, imaging, and tonal accuracy and balance? Acoustic Zen Adagio, Merlin TSM MME. Gallo 3.1, Frafrotski SE? Most speakers are competent, some are outstanding, a few deliver magic. Which speakers are the most musical and easy to listen to, rising to the top of a crowded field given their price point, and the most "forgiving" of their associated components? Which have magic?
-Pmboyd
Wow lofty standards and all for 2K.... we wish ... :) |
Jean Marie Reynaud speakers. Easily the most musical and engaging speakers I have come across. Add to that, they are incredibly easy to place for great sound |
Lean toward a soft dome tweeter. A metal one will really bring out any glare on the recording. And sometimes get more offensive than a soft dome. Harbeth would be a good one to check out, and Spendor. These brands focus on great midrange, where the majority of the important music is. |
I don't know what specific models are available, and the going price, but, I would be looking out for used speakers from brands such as Living Voice, Gershman, Jean Marie Reynard, Spendor (particularly their older "classic" lines), and Harbeth. |
