I would appreciate any suggestions on speaker cable choices. I will be using the following components: Krell Chorus 5 channel amp Krell Foundation processor Oppo 205 Blue Ray Sequerra Tuner B&W 802's & Center Channel My budget is $1500.00 Max, I am looking at used Kimber, Cardas, Audioquest or the new Silnote Orion-M2 Master Reference. Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated. walnut
Randy - if you're interested, @williewonka proposed a mechanism for noise induction into the neutral.. check out his blog or the 'help me build speaker cables' thread here.
I'm in agreement on most super expensive commercial cables.. so much hype to differentiate each brand. Having gone the DIY route, I understand why cables can be hundreds of dollars: high quality, high purity wire isn't cheap. Once we get into cables costing thousands, I don't get it..
See Post above. It seems Purist Audio Design cables lower
noise, bump up dynamics, eliminate all the blarey smear and increase focus…even
percussive focus to every note….EVERY note!
I just hafta go to these “cable shootouts” these Purist cables win. I’m sure it would be jaw dropping and eye
popping.
You couldn’t make this stuff up. No…wait, yes you could.
It never ceases to amaze me that someone’s system could have
so much noise, such stifled dynamics, so little percussive focus and so much of
that blarey smear (whatever that is) that a simple pair of speaker cables could
make it all go away.
Love the name calling. Y'all need to drink less coffee!
As for DIY, @williewonka and I just finished an epic DIY cable journey. Mine are still settling in, but the sound so far it's superb in my system. Clean, clear, lots of space, great dynamics, solid bass..
Mine cost me ~$200 to make a 6' biwire pair. Obviously a single run would be cheaper and using no connecters even more so..
**Purist Dealer** Dragon_Vibe is right. The noise level is so low with Purist cables that dynamics jump out more than other cables. There is also a focus and percussive focus to every note that I don't hear with other cables, the blarey/smear goes away with Purist Audio Design. They are just cleaner, and routinely win cable shootouts. Good luck with your cable search.
I simply wanted to echo the one previous poster about anticables.com. I have their Level 3 and am pleased as punch. I think it's unbelievable value for the dollar. (I'm on Thiel 3.6, Bryston 4B SST, and Tom Evans Vibe pre-amp, with OPPO media server.) I bought, as a gift, a single Level 1 RCA interconnect for my brother, who is the one who got me into stereo, and he was amazed at what this did, in change, for his system. Simply one Level 1 IC from preamp to amp.
There is always a lot of opinions on speaker cable. Lately in our audio club we have had some members experimenting with different cables including Clear Day, Grover, Western Electric 16ga, Acoustic Zen and many other brands. A couple of us are using the Duelund 12ga wire. I think it sounds excellent and it is very inexpensive as cable goes. Just get some and try it and if your don't like it sell it. In my opinion your room acoustics will make a bigger difference than any speaker cable.
Speaker Cables cannot "change" (for better) the audio program, but they can certainly alter a highly complex load (impedance) so that a listener might like the resulting sound better.
No need to spend a lot of $$ to get that however.
Unlike the woo-woo with interconnects, the alteration of sound from speakers with complex impedances by speaker cables is well understood in electronics.
Found it because of other people on this site. Stuff is so inexpensive people probably think it's not great. It's really worth auditioning against cables that cost $1,500 to 2k. I've found it just as good. When you see them you'll think what the heck is this rinky dink stuff yet it is wonderful. As I've upgraded components it has allowed them to shine.
Is it as good as 5k or more cables? I don't know but I'd rather put that money towards components.
Cables cannot "change" (for better) the audio program
At least you are right about one thing. However, they can, and all do, take away from the signal that is being sent. That is without exception. The best cables take away the least or inject their own voice the least. The I know science kool aid is so strong that some can’t accept that we don’t know everything or that it is entirely possible that we don’t yet know how to measure everything that matters in respect to human hearing. That kool aid is very strong.
1. "(the cables)....sounded magical but left me with fatigue." I found it strange that cables that sound magical (a positive) can also tire you out. Was that comment thought through? 2. "These (cables) sounded less noisy and cleaner overall. Cables do not "sound" or actively do anything to the media. How can they be less noisy when they make no noise? Not sure what "cleaner means?" Same as less noisy? 3. "Silver is so transparent that all forms of noise would show up on playback." So now "transparency" is a bad thing. Where is this "all sorts of noise" coming from?
Though possibly well intended, these are essentially made up claims (very prevalent coming from those who have sucked up the exotic cable kool-aide) with no sort of standardization of definition. I believe these claims are what the listener wants to hear and entirely lack substance. Hard to define what cannot exist.
I served almost 10 years in the Navy so there is no need for you to lecture me. You took the thread off target by claiming to be offended. You made it about you by commenting on my post. If any comment, such as those you routinely make, is directed to the forum in general, (i.e. is nameless), it is somehow not offensive? Really? I gave my opinion. If you don't like it, tough. Move on. Why should I care about your feelings when that same courtesy is not extended to anyone else here by you? Apparently you did not notice that I did make a couple of recommendations based on the OPs question. Right on target. As long as you keep putting the target on your back, the torpedoes will continue coming.
Now back to regular programming, I still recommend Oak and the Graphene Extreme speaker cables to the OP. Either would work well for you.
"whether it is ethical to encourage others to waste money"
That kind of begs the question, no? Isn't it fair for people to disagree about whether cables are a worthwhile investment? Can you accept that there is *some* room for disagreement? Precious little in this hobby (or elsewhere!) is black and white.
csmgolf: I have thick skin and offensive comments, while substantially lightweight, are directed personally at me, do not contribute to the topic and merely distract others from the discussion at hand. This particular thread is about cables...not me. Again...as we said in the Navy: "Stay focused, stay on target."
This discussion is not about me. It is about cables and whether it is ethical to encourage others to waste money.
What you say and how you post is classic trolling. Posting something provocative for the sole purpose of obtaining a reaction. Pretty much the definition to a T. I am sure your tender feeling will require that this post be deleted, but at least you will have seen it. Obviously, self awareness is not a strong suit for you. Buh-bye!
Do you know other members well enough to call them foolish, delusional, ignorant and all of the other things that you repeatedly call people? Have you personally experienced what they have with their systems in their rooms? When does the shoe you prescribe for others fit on your foot? It doesn't matter if it is directed at one person, or is a general comment thrown out at everyone. Me thinks that you need to develop thicker skin if you are going to go on insulting others. Personally, I take no offense to what you said for the reason you objected to in my last post. I could see where someone as sensitive as you could be offended by your postings. Look in the mirror.
To the OP, if 6 feet is long enough, there is a pair of Audioquest Oak in your price range that would work well. The Silnote cables are nice, but resale is not good if you decide to move on. Another really good cable is the Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme and are highly recommended. Good luck.
@csmgolf , I think you should ignore what dynaquest4 posts. No point taking it further. His system is the best and he "knows" that there cannot be anything better. How does he know that, you say? Well he knows it all, don't argue. We all are biased, he is the sole authority :-))))))))))))))
Csmgolf says: "I used to think you had no credibility, now I am sure of it."
Do you really know me well enough to post this personally offensive comment?Please try to stay on topic and not resort to personal comments when unable to usefully discuss the subject matter. I know this might be difficult but that is what this forum is for.
My stereo system is Oppo-105D/Emotiva XPA-2/B&W 803s. I could spend 1000% more and MAYBE achieve a subjective 5% improvement in overall SQ
That pretty much says it all. No bias there what so ever. Congratulations on reaching the top of the mountain. I used to think you had no credibility, now I am sure of it. Nothing wrong with those components per se, but to believe it cannot be improved upon by more than 5 percent by wisely spending a thousand percent more.....what a hoot. IMO they could be bested by spending the same amount, YMMV.
My opinions are not biased because I have researched the science and believe it.
I hate to break it to you, but your statement is biased. It makes the assumption that science knows all there is to know about the human hearing mechanism. It also assumes that the only measurements that matter are the ones that we have the capability to make now. History is full of examples where this kind of thinking is proven absolutely wrong. The person that thinks they, or science, know everything there is to know about any subject is a fool.
Yep...we clearly do are on opposite poles of this issue. My opinions are not biased because I have researched the science and believe it...and I have no financial interest in these products. My point is the cables cannot make, induce, accentuate, instill, highlight, perform or any other active verb you can think of. All they can provide is the prevention of interference from outside influences as they link the audio signal from component to component. Inexpensive cabling does this quite nicely. Spending more is just silly.
My stereo system is Oppo-105D/Emotiva XPA-2/B&W 803s. I could spend 1000% more and MAYBE achieve a subjective 5% improvement in overall SQ - for me, a stupid, wasteful, low value investment. But it might LOOK cooler...there is that!
Oh, and I have KimberKable for the speakers; got them free with another deal. Wasn't impressed with them over heavy guage zip cord. Also got a set of six Wireworld RCA interconnects for 10 bucks (retail on Amazon $100 each). Made no difference over the Monoprice set they replaced.
I do monitor AVS...and Audioholics. Both groups encourage not wasting money on silly, ineffective cabling.
dynaquest4, Clearly we have different opinions. So no point going forward with that discussion. You think cables should not make a difference (more nonsense) and I think cables do make a difference. I can say the same about your opinion, being biased. I have posted my system here, while you have not. I would like to know, what components are in your system? Now don't tell me that it does not make a difference, if I do not know your components. Cause, I feel, it does. If anything, your opinions on THIS forum are moot. You need to go to your brothers on avsforums.
Milpai....you did not address my opinion, you just touted your cables with a fancy name. Therefore I have nothing, really, to which to respond.
But, again, cables cannot "make a significance difference." See my previous post. And since you are in the business of selling this nonsense, your opinions are biased and therefore, on this forum, moot.
@dynaquest4, In my system the Clear Days made a significant difference. This was because the double shotgun configuration suited the efficiency of my loudspeaker. My previous bi-wires somehow did not produce the "liveliness" to the system that the Clear Day provided. BTW, for loudspeakers that are greater than 91db, the Clear Day shotguns are not recommended. A simpler pair is recommended.
Nothing personal, milpai! And my "description" was a generic one for expensive aftermarket cabling. That said, I disagree with your premise. Cabling cannot, should not and never will be able to "increase sound quality" above what the audio producer intended. All cabling can do is possibly mitigate outside (external) influences that might interfere with accurate delivery of an audio signal. In my opinion, very inexpensive cabling that meets basic length/impedance requirements does that - as well as it can be done. There is no need to expect better interference cancellation performance by throwing money at problems that do not exist. It is shameful that we have this cottage industry that preys upon niave, uneducated and unsuspecting "audiophiles" with too much money to waste.
@dynaquest14, I am so sad, you do not think my Clear Day cables as "audiophile grade". They are the exact opposite of what you say: Not pretty Made in USA Ordinary connectors No exaggerated claim Affordable Tremendously increases SQ
Let me go and hide my system page now, so that people don't see it :-(
"Audiophile grade" cables are those that are prettier to look at, sometimes hand made in the Philippines, have shiney connectors, make wildly exaggerated claims and cost stupid crazy amounts. They do not improve SQ at all above smartly selected cables from Monoprice and other scam-free distributers. But...if you are an "audiophile," you have to spend more because your self-imposed status requires it.
My experience has shown me that cables (speaker/interconnects) depend on your desired taste and component interaction. ANTICABLES is a small enough company that you can talk with owner Paul Speltz and get information for decision making. As well, his company offers a trail period for auditioning their products. Presently, I use their Level 5 speaker cable and am totally satisfied with the results.
@audiotomb: cables cannot, will not and have no capability to "have" tonality, dynamics and imaging." All expensive cables can do (supposedly) is fix issues caused by outside influences. If you buy basic cables that meet basic requirements, these influences will be minimized. Spending more only lightens your wallet.
If you think cables, on their own, create or induce improvements in SQ, then there is nothing I can say to change your mind. Keep funneling money to the hackesters that are scamming you.
I have analysis plus big silver oval. They are in you price range and well regarded. What sold me on them was when I saw them used in a $150,000 system. To me, it spoke volumes that a system designer at an audio show used them in such a rig. For the record, I don't have a $150k system. Mine is about $5k-wyred 4 sound amp/DAC, kef ls50 speakers.
Also, I don't have blue jeans speaker cables but have a lot of their other cables and can speak to their quality.
If you really need new speaker cables go to Blue Jeans Cable and avoid all the snake oil with the 10 AWG Belden 5000 series Cable, add their Ultrasonically-Welded banana plugs and you will have a great cables and lots of $ still in your wallet.
This is a great read and all I can say is you can build them and you won’t be dissatisfied!!! As far as how they stack up to the before mentioned, they beat them hands down! If you need any help or direction I will gladly help. Others good luck!"
rrwolfgram I have not had time to read it yet, but your not having an issue with that pure silver wire as being etched or bright? I haven’t really had much luck with sliver other than the very expensive Tellurium Q Sliver Diamonds.
Edit, okay I have read it now, the tempo electric one. if someone wanted to try them out, it seems there is so many options it is hard to decipher what to choose or what would be best.
I just recently bought Transparent Audio speakers cables, "The Wave" I got four 8 foot pairs here on audiogon brand new and on sale and I think they sound great.
Lamp cord: about as good as Monoprice, which is as good as Blue Jeans, which is as good as Audioquest, which is as good as Kimber, which is as good as Nordost.
Skip the hype, skip the snake oil, skip the sparkly shiney covering and pick basic wire of the correct impedence/guage from Monoprice or other scam-free manufacturer/distributer. Then take the money you save and buy some serious music media...or a great set of headphones. Do your research and don't fall for all the BS out there.
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