Has anyone noticed the OP hasn't chimed in since he started this thread ? That's odd. |
After 8 months with the Sony, I've decided to move on. It's for sale now if anyone wants to try it. It was just not the right player for my system. It is AWESOME, don't get me wrong, but I need something that's just a little bigger in the midrange. My whole system is pretty much flat response with good high freq extension and I feel like I need something warmer and with a bit of midrange bump. |
Hey Antonis, hang in there, and stay safe my friend! |
hello dear friends . this is antonis from ( not so sunny today greece )
when i purchased the 5400 i had the weiss minerva dac in my system
the 5400 left it miles back in terms of analysis and musicality
BUT
today a friend brought his weiss 202 for comparison
AGAIN winner !!!! |
hi tmsorosk:
in what way is the sony preferred to the ayre.
it has been sufggested that the cary sacd palyer has been preferred by one of the posters.
what performance parameters do you like over the ayre and other players ?
i would think that having a tube is an advantage. the sony in stock mode has no tube. |
Mrtennis ... $1000 is more what the 5400 is worth . I'm glad you see this . Ive heard the 5400 many times in a few different systems and its not close to either Ayre players . |
i have yet to be told why the sony 5400 is preferred to the ayre sacd player.
the preference for the cary, i would conjecture is the somewhat tube-like, euphonic coloration that the sony lacks, or is there another reason ?
i may have a chance to purchase a new sony 5400 for under $1000, but am not convinced that its sacd capability will be superior to some tube based digital components playing redbook.
certainly one would expect the sacd layer to be preferred over the red book layer in many cases.
perhaps the sony's limitation in stock form is the that plaguing solid state components, namely too much odd order harmonic distortion.
by the way, what is the list price of the cary--hopefully less than $10,000, in which case it may have serious competition and beg the question posted in the thread. |
Mrtennis,
I output analog XLR as well as HDMI from an XA5400ES to a Cary Cinema 11a, so by selecting the input I can compare the Sony processing to that of the Cary. I prefer the Cary processing for both CD and SACD, but the big thing for me is that DSD is available with HDMI, and in particular multi-channel DSD. It can be glorious!
db |
I am pretty happy with the Yamaha CDS 1000 on SACD and also as a transport. A little more costly than the Sony but better made and optimized for two channel only. A VSE mod, same as the Sony mod they do, apparently takes it into the stratoshpere, but I haven't heard that. This player is competitive with many of the audiophile players at several times its cost (IMO). |
hi paul:
do you prefer your dac and mac in 16/44 mode over the sony in sacd mode?
that is if you have a hybrid sacd and play the sacd on the sony, do you prefer the sacd layer out of the sony over the redbook layer using your favorite dac and transport ?
if so, what dac are you using ?
i am considering the sony as an sacd player, but it may be possible that theredbook layer fed through a dac and xport may be preferred over the sacd layer played on the sony, in which case, the sony may have some sompetition as an sacd player.
i say this because i have found that hybrid discs recorded during the last 5 years, have an sacd layer which is more enjoyable than listening to the redbook layer.
then again there may be some dac and transports which can better some sacd players, subject to one's personal criteria, of course.
sorry to be so long winded. i am thinking and writing at the same time and could be more efficient if i spent more time composing my thoughts. |
Too bad the Weiss won't play DSD.
I find the Sony 5400 quite excellent on SACD and good on RB too, but the two very good redbook/PCM DACs I have are better (driven by a Mac Mini). |
The sony is a good machine for the money and is quite forgiving of poor recordings.However I recently picked up a Weiss Dac2 to try.I used the Sony as the transport.The bottom line is I never heard digital this good( ever).In fact I didn't know it was possible for it to be this good. I guess I just got lucky on system synergy.Some recordings are so lifelike it is hard to believe it is coming from a stereo.
Of course all this is my subjective opinion.As always YMMV . |
hi wa6itd:
my friend has the ayre 5 and raves about it. i have not heard it.
i am curious why you prefer the sony ?
i am also wondering which of the two players is more full-bodied and how both react to poorly recorded cds. |
Yes Audiomagic makes a totally new technology as in their new line of cables they are a liquid polymer and donot have the inherent drawbacks of a metal based cable such as emi and rfi these cables have none of that and even the entry level cord has beaten other brands at 2x the cost .
Yes even a power cord for the 4pin xlr umbilical power cord. |
For those of you using the Modwright Sony 5400, any power cord recommendations for the transport and the PS9?
Thanks,
Lubes3 |
Food, art, and literature indeed have no absolutes. |
tthere are no absolutes as far as quality is concerned.
food, literature, art, or any other aesthetic activity has no absolutes. why ? the standards for evaluation are subjectively determined.
also absolutes requuire certainty , not probability. in the disciplines of mathematics and logoc--the world of abstraction, there are absolutes.
in the world of experience there are no absolutes.
i would welcome an explantion of how something can be absolute in the world of experience.
admittedly such an explantion has no relevance to audio. it is a subject of philosophy. |
missing from the conversation is the implicit connotation that what is "best" is not absolute and hence dependes upon on'es criteria.
it has often been said that there is no best, so while it is entertaining to discusss the merits of the sony player, it is a philosophical and/or rhetorical question--it has no definitive answer.
Indeed, audio is *highly* subjective. I recall a few years ago a lot of people preferred a Sony Playstation as a digital source over units an order of magnitude or more expensive. In fact, with digital sources I think the level of subjectivity is highest. Still, there are common and prevailing opinions. For example, it would be surprising to see any audio journal rate the Playback machine behind those others if that is actually the case - such a take would be counter to what's typical, in the audio press itself as well as outside of it. (As for me, I've never heard it.)
there is no best anything in life, period.
There's a bit of a silly statement, philosophically. :) So the only absolute is that there are absolutely no absolutes? I disagree. In audio there may be no absolutes. |
|
missing from the conversation is the implicit connotation that what is "best" is not absolute and hence dependes upon on'es criteria.
it has often been said that there is no best, so while it is entertaining to discusss the merits of the sony player, it is a philosophical and/or rhetorical question--it has no definitive answer.
there is no best anything in life, period. |
This Is from Japs Stereo Sound Magazine:
The Best CD/SACD Players for 2009:
1. Denon DSD-SX
2. Pioneer PD-D9 Mk2
3. Marantz SA-13S2
4. Sony SCD-XA5400es
5. Esoteric SA-10
6. Esoteric SA-50
7. Link Majik CD
8. Accuphase DP-700
9. Metronome CD1 Signature
10. Playback MPS-5
Is that a joke - the Playback behind all those other machines? Or is the list not ordered? |
Need know anyone has comapred this to Jolida 100 .. tried searching the forum, but was unable to get Jolida and 5400 on the same thread.
I have Joilda 100 (modified) for last 5-6 years, happy with the Jolida sound but have few SACDs as well and looking for player with SACD/CD capability trying to figure out is it worth getting Sony XA 5400 ES, will it be improvement over Joilda 100 for playing CDs. other components are
Odyssey - tempest, Stratos, and Usher CP 6381 speakers.
Thanks, |
There's a ModWright 5400 up for sale now. Perhaps the seller can shed some light on the sonics? |
This Is from Japs Stereo Sound Magazine:
The Best CD/SACD Players for 2009:
1. Denon DSD-SX
2. Pioneer PD-D9 Mk2
3. Marantz SA-13S2
4. Sony SCD-XA5400es
5. Esoteric SA-10
6. Esoteric SA-50
7. Link Majik CD
8. Accuphase DP-700
9. Metronome CD1 Signature
10. Playback MPS-5 |
I contacted Modwright about a week ago and was told that Dan prefers the modded 5400 to the modded Oppo. However, the person I spoke to prefers the Oppo for its' warmth. I'm trying to find out whether these units actually compare
with 10K or more units. Has anyone actually compared them to Emm, ARC, Playback, Cary, Ayon, etc.? I just find it hard to believe that the Oppo, in particular, can be in this elite status. |
Thanks Rhyno,
Dan was a bit vague when I asked him about the comparisons between the two tube-modded players, although in fairness that was a few months back--probably before he was able to make definite conclusions. I'll stick with my original plan and keep the 9100 AND get the tubed Oppo (when a few more funds arrive). That way I have Blu-Ray, DVD-Audio, etc., and still have "near $10,000 sound" with my Platinum 9100ES (which is probably on a par with the tubed Oppo and a notch below the 5400 on CD and SACD, from what everyone is saying). Mystery solved! Thanks again. |
Thanks Rhyno,
Dan was a bit vague when I asked him about the comparisons between the two tube-modded players, although in fairness that was a few months back--probably before he was able to make definite conclusions. I'll stick with my original plan and keep the 9100 AND get the tubed Oppo (when a few more funds arrive). That way I have Blu-Ray, DVD-Audio, etc., and still have "near $10,000 sound" with my Platinum 9100ES (which is probably on a par with the tubed Oppo and a notch below the 5400 on CD and SACD, from what everyone is saying). Mystery solved! Thanks again. |
ask dan.
though FWIW when i spoke to him, he said for absolute performance the sony is superior. for all in one convenience while yielding little, get the oppo. |
I have a 9100ES SACD / DVD Modwright Platinum mod. I'm quite happy with it, but am thinking about Blu-Ray, and thus Oppo 83SE (perhaps with Dan's tube mod). Any thoughts regarding the tubed ModWright Oppo vs. tubed ModWright 5400ES? If I had a fat bankroll, I would simply buy one of each of these machines and sell the 9100ES here on AudiogoN. Recommendations? |
Everest Audio, your point taken.
Let me rephrase it. May I ask how does it compare with PWT+PWD (or Wyred DAC2)? Thank you. |
It can't be compared to the Perfectwave Transport. How do you compare an integrated CD/SACD player to something that is a transport only? |
How does it compare with Perfectwave Transport? (which plays redbook only) |
I believe the sound steadily improved with my unit for the first 200-300 hours but who knows, perhaps it is all in my head.I just know I like it even better now than initially. |
I got one of these a few days ago, replacing a Rotel Rcc 1055.
The one word that best describes the sound is WOW. Very smooth, easy on the ears, highly detailed are also traits I notice. I am now playing music I thought I knew only to discover what I have been missing. There are sonds that I am understanding lyrics that I had not understood before. This is strange but, very nice. The ear fatigue is gone.
It is making me think about selling my analogue front end
and replacing the vinyl with cds. Radical heresy I understand but it would result in me listening more due to the ease of use factor.
I will see what 500 hours of burn in can do plus I have new speaker cables coming this week so that will take some time to settle in also.
I am very hapyy with this Sony...no baloney. |
I think it all depends on the rest of the system. The only thing I know for sure is at a mrsp of $1500 the Sony is truly amazing in my system and I have no plans to change it anytime soon.It replaced an Esoteric X-03 se . |
I used to own one and even had it upgraded. It sounds pretty good, but in my view the 10K+ giant killer claim is pure hype. I now own the Marantz ud9004 universal player, which sounds better analog out. The marantz as digital transport into my PS audio perfectwave DAC is better still. |
Yeah, maybe I was too hard on Tgyeti, I really DO love tweaking this stuff. I think I'm going to try and DIY that pebbles tweak he was talking about :-) |
we are cool this is just a hobby where you are suppose to have fun. |
At this time it appears as though I have traced the issue to another part of the system (after I so boldly proclaimed it wasn't) and the Sony was not the culprit. I'll need another day or so to be sure, but for now things sound pretty awesome. Glare is gone and nothing touches the 5400ES when it comes to detail, dynamics and soundstage as you have stated.
If my preliminary observations are correct, I'll post a more detailed report. Special thanks to my friend who loaned me the Arcam. If I had not had such a different sounding player to swap into the system I never would have traced the problem.
Also, special thanks to Audiogon for allowing me to have this forum as a vehicle to show the rest of the audiophile community just what a flaky basket case I can be! I promise you guys, I'm not this screwed up when it comes to the REST of my life. :-) |
I bought Neal's XA5400ES and am very pleased with its portrayal of timbre, dynamic range, and soundstage. In my system the sound is detailed yet smooth. I use analog XLR interconnects to my preamp, and replaced the power cord with something that looks like a garden hose.
db
|
LOL who said I was garnering PLEASURE?!?! It's more of a curse than a blessing. :-)
I had a revelation while I was doing some listening this evening and I'm going to try something else in the morning. It's late now and I'm just not up to it. It'll probably keep me awake and I'll be doing it at 4am.
Seriously though, all those tweaks make a difference and often tweaks are the difference between good and great results. I often reminisce about systems and equipment I've owned in the past and thought "if I only knew then what I know now". The devil is in the details, and details are what this hobby is about, right?I learned a long time ago (and learned the hard way) that you can't just buy a bunch of expensive components, hook them together, and expect them to sound magical.
As I was trying all the patch cables I have, I got to a very old pair of cables which I've had since the 80's. They immediately made my system sound two dimensional with no soundstage depth whatsoever. How many power amps do you think I sold back then because "they didn't have any soundstage depth"? It bothered me for days to think of the potentially great pieces of gear I'd sold off because I was using crappy cables.
I DO draw the line at pebbles, coins on my speakers, funky stick things that go on a stand in the middle of your room and various other bizarre tweaks. I will say however, that if you blindfolded me and set a book on top of my cd player I could not only tell that you did so, I could tell you which side you set it on. I've already proven that one out with a friend who thought I was crazy.
I'll keep you all posted on tomorrow's tweak. |
Kudos to you Prsmccarty if you garner that much pleasure out of micromanaging your system the way you do. I know you're not alone here, but it strikes me as a bit obssesive compulsive, IMO
Perhaps the Clever Little Clock may help (Google it for a laugh) ... or that little jar of pebbles for $795 (again, a real product ....lol) |
I have everything on tiptoes. I've also tried resonance control on the top and bottom of the player. I've tried four power cords, ferrite magnets, power conditioner IN and OUT of the system, four pairs of interconnects(though I still like to call them patch cables :-)), two pairs of speaker cables, single barrel bourbon, and turning my chair around so it faces away from the speakers. Each of these things made a difference obviously (except the bourbon) but the glare remains in varying degrees. The power cable swaps and the conditioner changes seem to have the most impact on the offending frequencies.
As for getting any "life" out of it, I'd have to say it has the best dynamic range of any player I've ever heard (yeah, really!) but the mids are a bit recessed and as a result it doesn't have quite the palpable "instruments in the room" effect that my old XA7ES had.
Sorry if my humor is out of line, I really appreciate you're weighing in. I was actually thinking this morning of taking the tiptoes OUT of the equation. It seems like every tweak that made my old player sound better makes this one sound worse. The rest of the system has been fed by numerous sources over the years so I'm pretty confident nothing is being caused by pre/power/speakers.
I'm surprised no one has offered any opinions of the Arcam CD37. I was hoping someone had made a comparison they could share. I will say that the borrowed CD17 is starting to sound pretty sweet and I will even go on record (in case anyone is doing a forum search) as saying that it sounds as good as my old XA7ES. It's a little tubby in the mid bass but that's easier to remedy.
What sort of equipment/cables were you using when you had the 5400? As I stated in an earlier post, I thought the included cable was a joke. |
Have you tried any resonance or vibration controls underneath CDP? I use Aurios MIB's under my transport and they do wonderful things. Just a thought well short of a mod.
I had this player for a few months and last thing I heard was glare; couldn't get any "life" out of it, but I know many love it.
Neal |
I understand completely. I'm still working so there is still a little cash coming in.
Anyway, it can't hurt to talk to Bill. Best of luck to you.
Regards, |
That sounds enticing and I appreciate your thoughtful suggestion, however at this time, the only way I could raise that much money would be to SELL the 5400ES (as well as a few other things). I don't know if I possess the nerves it must take to spend that much on a mod. In better days perhaps, but I'm semi-retired now and cash flow isn't what it used to be. I may call Bill at Music Technology (where they install the VSE mods) and speak with him about it. He won't remember me by name, but we have a mutual friend, so maybe he'll spend a few minutes on the phone with me. If he can assure me that the mod will get me to where I want to go, then maybe I'll hang onto the Sony and figure out how to raise the money.
Meanwhile, the Arcam on loan (which is the lower priced unit, not the CD37 I would purchase) is beginning to sound pretty darn good. Being an audiophile in a small market is getting really frustrating because there just aren't any opportunities to audition much of anything! My friend is always happy to order things like the 5400 and the Arcam and he gives me a good enough price that I can listen for a few months and get out without losing my shirt if I don't like the equipment, but I'm limited to what he can get me.
If we had better public transportation I would just sell my car and get something REALLY nice. My car wouldn't get me a DCS rig but it could get me a Wadia. :-) |
|
Presently, I'm running them single ended but balanced connections are available. As a former C-J user, all my best cables were single ended.
I'll check out Allen's mod. I had only seen the Modwright mod with those 6sn7's poking up through the top. Any idea how much the VSE mod costs? |
I would certainly consider the VSE mods to your 5400 with the Terra Firma Lite clock. I heard this in Allen Wright's system in Schaffhausen and he uses Acoustats so any glare in the delivery system would be exposed. You need precision in the treble region with the Tablettes. No valves in the VSE board.
Are those amps balanced or single-ended?
Regards, |
Not sure if anyone is still following this thread but I'm looking to gather your opinions...After 3-4 months with my 5400ES, I can no longer tolerate,nor can I seem to do anything to eliminate the GLARE in the upper mids. The player scores PERFECTLY in virtually every other area but in my system (which I'll describe below) the upper mid glare on things like the upper range of piano is really irritating. Horns are more spit than bell, snares are more spring than skin, and stringed instruments are more bow than body. (and did I mention that David Russell now sounds like his fingernails need trimming?) I can minimize this artifact by swapping power cables but then I'm also altering other characteristics when I do. Interconnects, I've tried every pair in the house, same with speaker cables, and I've also tried two pairs of speakers.
The way I see it, my choices are: Spend a couple thousand dollars on various power cables and hope I get lucky (the unit responds to pc swaps pretty dramatically), have the unit modified (not something I would normally consider and I would prefer not to have any tubes added to my system), or replace the player. Since I am presently of "limited means" the most likely replacement would be an Arcam CD37 since I have a dealer friend who gives me great deals and because I've spent $300 on SACD's since I got the Sony.
Opinions?? (I know, I'm opening up Pandora's box here)
My system is Marsh Sound Design P2000/A200S, HT Truth Link and Pro-11 cables, and either one of two pairs of ProAc speakers, Response 2's or Tablette 50 Sigs ( I prefer to use the Tabs since the listening space is small and I realize that they are adding to the problem as they are a bit brighter than the R2's. I eventually plan on selling both pairs and grabbing the Response D1's)
Sidebar: The 5400ES replaced an XA7ES which never sounded harsh or offensive. I'm currently listening to an Arcam CD17 I borrowed from my friend which sounds nice and relaxed but lacks the detail retrieval and dynamic range of the Sony.Certainly no glare on the CD17 but the timbrel accuracy of the Sony isn't there either. Does anyone know of a mod which will just address the glare issue on the Sony without adding a pair of tubes sticking up through the top of the chassis?
Before you tube guys start railing on me, I've owned complete ARC and C-J tube systems in my life,and I'm an electric guitar player of 40+ years. "I got nuthin' against tubes!" Just want a SS stereo this time around. |
