My Tag Heuer tells me we've spent far too much time talking about watches.
I just bought a 5400 ES to replace my beloved XA7ES and although the build quality really pales in comparison with the XA7 (like comparing a can of Altoids to an iPhone), the 5400 sounds as good or better, in many respects, than the player it is replacing. I'm only on second day of break-in, but I'm thinking it's a keeper. |
Update after 100hrs of continuous play...HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT.
Yeah, bass is great, midrange is neutral, instrument timbres seem very accurate, BUT... soundstage is narrow and shallow. Barely two-dimensional. Presentation is so forward that when listening to jazz I feel like I'm the drummer, and orchestral cymbal clashes fly out of the speakers like ninja throwing stars. Lacks weight when compared to my XA7ES, and dynamics seem to choke in the high frequencies. I'll be shocked if this player can transform enough to make me want to keep it. I stand by what I said earlier about improving on my old player in several key areas but when viewed as a whole, performance is lacking.
Already sold my XA7ES. I feel like an idiot tonight. Big MISTAKE. |
Well, since I've already admitted to being an idiot, here's another update. My previous cd player had a captive power cable so I didn't have an extra cable lying around the house. I was forced to fire up the 5400 with the 3 cent power cable they packed in the box. I caught up with a friend last night who had an extra cable I could borrow and it remedied 90% of what I described in my previous post. Soundstage is still a little shallow but wider now, and dynamics issues have been fixed. Presentation is still a little forward but I'm not ducking throwing stars anymore and the soloists aren't sitting in my lap.
I am hopeful again and will give it another week before I freak out. Sony should be ashamed of themselves throwing that cable in the box. I know that no self-respecting audiophile intends to use that cable permanently but it ought to AT LEAST be usable! Maybe they could refrain from including the ridiculous patch cable and spend the extra penny on the power cord?
Sequence56 - Can you calm my anxieties with regards to the soundstage/presentation issues? What can I expect in another week or two? |
Well, that's good news. I would recommend trying every power cord in your house whether it's a high-end replacement or not. The one that comes with the player is pretty bad. I got improved sound just by grabbing one out of a drawer that I had left over from a computer or guitar amp or something. I have a Zu Cable Bok which I intend to use eventually, but I have to make a slight modification (i.e. big hole) in the back of my equipment cab to accommodate the cable, since the 5400ES is so deep. |
One more thing, It could just be my imagination but the power cable upgrade seems to be accelerating the break in. I hear improvements every time I check in on it. |
I don't disagree Chayro, but in the beginning I like to keep the rest of the system as the constant in the equation. That way I feel I'm measuring the differences between the new player and the one it replaced. After I'm convinced it's staying, and I feel I've got a pretty good handle on how it differs from the old unit, I can make any necessary adjustments.
Since this Sony is replacing another Sony, I would think those adjustments will likely be minimal. Frankly, I was 99% happy with the sound of the XA7ES, I just wanted to replace it while it was still working and sounding good and I knew that newer players would offer some improvements. The 5400ES is sounding better and better, except for the aforementioned power cable I'll be surprised if I change anything else.
One more thing, this was way more than "may not sound right". The sound of this player during break-in with the stock power cord was dramatically inferior to the sound the player is capable of with simply a better generic cable. It was really that bad. Just read my "big mistake" post. I wasn't exaggerating. |
At just over 300 hours, I'm very pleased with what I'm hearing. If there's a better cd player out there, I'm certain I can't afford it. |
Not sure if anyone is still following this thread but I'm looking to gather your opinions...After 3-4 months with my 5400ES, I can no longer tolerate,nor can I seem to do anything to eliminate the GLARE in the upper mids. The player scores PERFECTLY in virtually every other area but in my system (which I'll describe below) the upper mid glare on things like the upper range of piano is really irritating. Horns are more spit than bell, snares are more spring than skin, and stringed instruments are more bow than body. (and did I mention that David Russell now sounds like his fingernails need trimming?) I can minimize this artifact by swapping power cables but then I'm also altering other characteristics when I do. Interconnects, I've tried every pair in the house, same with speaker cables, and I've also tried two pairs of speakers.
The way I see it, my choices are: Spend a couple thousand dollars on various power cables and hope I get lucky (the unit responds to pc swaps pretty dramatically), have the unit modified (not something I would normally consider and I would prefer not to have any tubes added to my system), or replace the player. Since I am presently of "limited means" the most likely replacement would be an Arcam CD37 since I have a dealer friend who gives me great deals and because I've spent $300 on SACD's since I got the Sony.
Opinions?? (I know, I'm opening up Pandora's box here)
My system is Marsh Sound Design P2000/A200S, HT Truth Link and Pro-11 cables, and either one of two pairs of ProAc speakers, Response 2's or Tablette 50 Sigs ( I prefer to use the Tabs since the listening space is small and I realize that they are adding to the problem as they are a bit brighter than the R2's. I eventually plan on selling both pairs and grabbing the Response D1's)
Sidebar: The 5400ES replaced an XA7ES which never sounded harsh or offensive. I'm currently listening to an Arcam CD17 I borrowed from my friend which sounds nice and relaxed but lacks the detail retrieval and dynamic range of the Sony.Certainly no glare on the CD17 but the timbrel accuracy of the Sony isn't there either. Does anyone know of a mod which will just address the glare issue on the Sony without adding a pair of tubes sticking up through the top of the chassis?
Before you tube guys start railing on me, I've owned complete ARC and C-J tube systems in my life,and I'm an electric guitar player of 40+ years. "I got nuthin' against tubes!" Just want a SS stereo this time around. |
Presently, I'm running them single ended but balanced connections are available. As a former C-J user, all my best cables were single ended.
I'll check out Allen's mod. I had only seen the Modwright mod with those 6sn7's poking up through the top. Any idea how much the VSE mod costs? |
That sounds enticing and I appreciate your thoughtful suggestion, however at this time, the only way I could raise that much money would be to SELL the 5400ES (as well as a few other things). I don't know if I possess the nerves it must take to spend that much on a mod. In better days perhaps, but I'm semi-retired now and cash flow isn't what it used to be. I may call Bill at Music Technology (where they install the VSE mods) and speak with him about it. He won't remember me by name, but we have a mutual friend, so maybe he'll spend a few minutes on the phone with me. If he can assure me that the mod will get me to where I want to go, then maybe I'll hang onto the Sony and figure out how to raise the money.
Meanwhile, the Arcam on loan (which is the lower priced unit, not the CD37 I would purchase) is beginning to sound pretty darn good. Being an audiophile in a small market is getting really frustrating because there just aren't any opportunities to audition much of anything! My friend is always happy to order things like the 5400 and the Arcam and he gives me a good enough price that I can listen for a few months and get out without losing my shirt if I don't like the equipment, but I'm limited to what he can get me.
If we had better public transportation I would just sell my car and get something REALLY nice. My car wouldn't get me a DCS rig but it could get me a Wadia. :-) |
I have everything on tiptoes. I've also tried resonance control on the top and bottom of the player. I've tried four power cords, ferrite magnets, power conditioner IN and OUT of the system, four pairs of interconnects(though I still like to call them patch cables :-)), two pairs of speaker cables, single barrel bourbon, and turning my chair around so it faces away from the speakers. Each of these things made a difference obviously (except the bourbon) but the glare remains in varying degrees. The power cable swaps and the conditioner changes seem to have the most impact on the offending frequencies.
As for getting any "life" out of it, I'd have to say it has the best dynamic range of any player I've ever heard (yeah, really!) but the mids are a bit recessed and as a result it doesn't have quite the palpable "instruments in the room" effect that my old XA7ES had.
Sorry if my humor is out of line, I really appreciate you're weighing in. I was actually thinking this morning of taking the tiptoes OUT of the equation. It seems like every tweak that made my old player sound better makes this one sound worse. The rest of the system has been fed by numerous sources over the years so I'm pretty confident nothing is being caused by pre/power/speakers.
I'm surprised no one has offered any opinions of the Arcam CD37. I was hoping someone had made a comparison they could share. I will say that the borrowed CD17 is starting to sound pretty sweet and I will even go on record (in case anyone is doing a forum search) as saying that it sounds as good as my old XA7ES. It's a little tubby in the mid bass but that's easier to remedy.
What sort of equipment/cables were you using when you had the 5400? As I stated in an earlier post, I thought the included cable was a joke. |
LOL who said I was garnering PLEASURE?!?! It's more of a curse than a blessing. :-)
I had a revelation while I was doing some listening this evening and I'm going to try something else in the morning. It's late now and I'm just not up to it. It'll probably keep me awake and I'll be doing it at 4am.
Seriously though, all those tweaks make a difference and often tweaks are the difference between good and great results. I often reminisce about systems and equipment I've owned in the past and thought "if I only knew then what I know now". The devil is in the details, and details are what this hobby is about, right?I learned a long time ago (and learned the hard way) that you can't just buy a bunch of expensive components, hook them together, and expect them to sound magical.
As I was trying all the patch cables I have, I got to a very old pair of cables which I've had since the 80's. They immediately made my system sound two dimensional with no soundstage depth whatsoever. How many power amps do you think I sold back then because "they didn't have any soundstage depth"? It bothered me for days to think of the potentially great pieces of gear I'd sold off because I was using crappy cables.
I DO draw the line at pebbles, coins on my speakers, funky stick things that go on a stand in the middle of your room and various other bizarre tweaks. I will say however, that if you blindfolded me and set a book on top of my cd player I could not only tell that you did so, I could tell you which side you set it on. I've already proven that one out with a friend who thought I was crazy.
I'll keep you all posted on tomorrow's tweak. |
At this time it appears as though I have traced the issue to another part of the system (after I so boldly proclaimed it wasn't) and the Sony was not the culprit. I'll need another day or so to be sure, but for now things sound pretty awesome. Glare is gone and nothing touches the 5400ES when it comes to detail, dynamics and soundstage as you have stated.
If my preliminary observations are correct, I'll post a more detailed report. Special thanks to my friend who loaned me the Arcam. If I had not had such a different sounding player to swap into the system I never would have traced the problem.
Also, special thanks to Audiogon for allowing me to have this forum as a vehicle to show the rest of the audiophile community just what a flaky basket case I can be! I promise you guys, I'm not this screwed up when it comes to the REST of my life. :-) |
Yeah, maybe I was too hard on Tgyeti, I really DO love tweaking this stuff. I think I'm going to try and DIY that pebbles tweak he was talking about :-) |
After 8 months with the Sony, I've decided to move on. It's for sale now if anyone wants to try it. It was just not the right player for my system. It is AWESOME, don't get me wrong, but I need something that's just a little bigger in the midrange. My whole system is pretty much flat response with good high freq extension and I feel like I need something warmer and with a bit of midrange bump. |
