And that’s quite a moustashe! Apparently you sympathize with dead people.
Solid State vs. Tubes - What if Transistors came first?
What do you guys think?
If transistors came first, and then decades later tubes were invented, would we have any tube amps we would call high end?
Wouldn’t they all fail to reach the height of performance and transparency set by transistor amps?
Best,
E
P.S. I love Conrad Johnson. I'm just wondering how much of our arguments have to do with timing.
If transistors came first, and then decades later tubes were invented, would we have any tube amps we would call high end?
Wouldn’t they all fail to reach the height of performance and transparency set by transistor amps?
Best,
E
P.S. I love Conrad Johnson. I'm just wondering how much of our arguments have to do with timing.
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🚽 dave_b I did! Breakthrough in CD technology by Geoff Kait In The Manufacturer’s Showcase "You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep seated need to believe." Carl Sagan "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." Jonathan Swift "It’s easier to fool someone than to convince them they’ve been fooled". Mark Twain That just about sums up Geoff’s "products" ..................... That’s...very...good... Dave >>>>”People would generally be much better off if they believed in too much rather than too little.” PT Barnum ”Never smarten up a chump.” WC Fields ”No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.” Einstein |
In my amplifier, many things could be not Western although I have no way of telling. It does say "Made in Japan" on it so my quick guess would be that at least some parts are from there making them Eastern. Not exactly "Third World" country, but when you mentioned "Western". My comment about "third world made parts" was more along the lines of "it is hard to know where things are coming from these days and why does it matter anyway". Again, short of Red Bull, although who knows where they get sugar from. Probably not from Switzerland or Japan. |
Bloody transistors age too, and well-made tube amp should last for 100 years with maybe couple of repairs. I don't like only two things about tube amps - bad tubes occasionally blowing up and running out supply of good NOS tubes. I am sorry, I don't want third world made parts in my equipment. Some Russian tubes would do because they have a very long standing tradition of making tubes for the military. But you can't count on them, they may stop making them at any moment. |
"Cold and technical. Not warm and natural while slightly, but pleasantly, imperfect. " This argument reminds of the argument of amplifier feedback. There are those who believe feedback is better and there are those who believe feedback is worse. There are measurements that show feedback has lower distortion therefore it must be better, but listening impression tells another story. Just like solid state vs. tube. SS measures better but somehow tubes sound better to human ears but less than perfect with measurement. Back to feedback, I had to chance to read an article from Pass Lab, and apparently he did some measurements on how distortion affected by feedback. Audiogon does not allow posting a picture so I can't post that graph here, but what he found that although feedback does reduce "overall" distortion, it increases periodic distortion. That is the distortion curve of feedback is "overall" lower vs. non-feedback, but there are spikes in the distortion curve that extends to multiple higher frequencies. Back to the argument of SS vs. tubes, I suspect something similar is happening to SS. It's the higher distortion order which extend to higher frequencies that make it sounds cold and technical. These higher distortion spikes are very narrow so they don't add up to much in term of measurement, but the ears are sensitive to it. I believe these higher order spikes fundamentally make music sound less than musical. It's the extra high frequencies that our ears apparently don't really like. |
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"If you pick the correct....ingredients...…..you’ll be happy with the outcome."rodman99999, As you mentioned, silicon just does not give that right feeling. It gives that artificial impression. Cold and technical. Not warm and natural while slightly, but pleasantly, imperfect. The inconvenience is that silicon can last longer while other vacuum(ing) devices degrade quickly and are better replaced as soon as any deterioration is noticed. And that becomes expensive in the long run. In other words, tubes may make you feel better while transistors will last longer and give you enough satisfaction for longer time. That is what I meant. |
This thread is a HOOT(on a number of levels)! To me, there’s just something about a signal, that’s been passed through a vacuum(dare I use the term, "ELECTRON tube"?), rather than silicon. Not that I don’t have SS, in my system. And, I’m even a clean, undistorted, no artificial color/flavor, no sugary glaze, kinda guy. It’s just that those 18 valves, between my two main amps and CD player, sound like the real thing(also, on a number of levels). It's like cooking or building a car/motorcycle/plane engine. If you pick the correct components/ingredients(tubes, caps, resistors, etc) and mix them together right, you'll be happy with the outcome. BTW: I think some that lurk these pages, just enjoy being intentionally obtuse. Perhaps being argumentative/contrary, is all they have left? Happy listening(yeah, all of you)! |
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dave_b https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/shady/2901/machina-dynamica-aka-geoff-kait-infringes-on-my-inte.... Im sure there’s more but I’m done going to the bathroom now!! >>>>Are you stupid or something? How could I have been infringing on HIS intellectual property? It was a photo of MY clock? Hel-looo! Anybody in there? Knock! Knock! 😛 Please note in the discussion linked to the best question was asked by Wellfed. |
https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/shady/2901/machina-dynamica-aka-geoff-kait-infringes-on-my-inte... Im sure there’s more but I’m done going to the bathroom now!! |
Also another question to ask is that can we invent a device that sound even better than tubes and transistors? Does such a device exist? I mean it took lots of money and time back then to invent tubes and transistors. It seems like in term of human well being and with respect to the planet earth, such a device is probably somewhere near the bottom of the list. I doubt anyone will invest money into it. Tubes and transistors we originally design for practical purposes like radio and communication. Audio is just a byproduct. But theoretically can we invent such a device? It's possible. |
If transistors came first, it's probably true that we would not have tubes since there are no reasons and as the saying goes, necessity is the mother of all inventions, people wouldn't spend their time working on something that is not needed. But that does not mean that tubes are inferior in term of sounding. It's like saying a Ferrari is inferior to a Toyota because a Toyota is a lot more reliable. |
I did! Breakthrough in CD technology by Geoff Kait In The Manufacturer's Showcase "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." "It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they've been fooled". That just about sums up Geoff's "products" |