Solid State vs. Tubes - What if Transistors came first?


What do you guys think?

If transistors came first, and then decades later tubes were invented, would we have any tube amps we would call high end?

Wouldn’t they all fail to reach the height of performance and transparency set by transistor amps?

Best,

E

P.S. I love Conrad Johnson. I'm just wondering how  much of our arguments have to do with timing. 
erik_squires

Showing 6 responses by andy2

If transistors came first, it's probably true that we would not have tubes since there are no reasons and as the saying goes, necessity is the mother of all inventions, people wouldn't spend their time working on something that is not needed.  But that does not mean that tubes are inferior in term of sounding.  It's like saying a Ferrari is inferior to a Toyota because a Toyota is a lot more reliable.
Also another question to ask is that can we invent a device that sound even better than tubes and transistors?  Does such a device exist?

I mean it took lots of money and time back then to invent tubes and transistors.  It seems like in term of human well being and with respect to the planet earth, such a device is probably somewhere near the bottom of the list.  I doubt anyone will invest money into it.  Tubes and transistors we originally design for practical purposes like radio and communication.  Audio is just a byproduct. 

But theoretically can we invent such a device?  It's possible.  
"Cold and technical. Not warm and natural while slightly, but pleasantly, imperfect. "

This argument reminds of the argument of amplifier feedback.  There are those who believe feedback is better and there are those who believe feedback is worse.  There are measurements that show feedback has lower distortion therefore it must be better, but listening impression tells another story.  Just like solid state vs. tube.  SS measures better but somehow tubes sound better to human ears but less than perfect with measurement.
Back to feedback, I had to chance to read an article from Pass Lab, and apparently he did some measurements on how distortion affected by feedback.  Audiogon does not allow posting a picture so I can't post that graph here, but what he found that although feedback does reduce "overall" distortion, it increases periodic distortion.  That is the distortion curve of feedback is "overall" lower vs. non-feedback, but there are spikes in the distortion curve that extends to multiple higher frequencies.
Back to the argument of SS vs. tubes, I suspect something similar is happening to SS.  It's the higher distortion order which extend to higher frequencies that make it sounds cold and technical.  These higher distortion spikes are very narrow so they don't add up to much in term of measurement, but the ears are sensitive to it.

I believe these higher order spikes fundamentally make music sound less than musical.  It's the extra high frequencies that our ears apparently don't really like.

You don’t have to be Mark Twain to write these kinds of garbage. Check out some I came up with while writing a stupid program. I’ll do more once I get a my next Mark Twain inspiration.

 

There are two kinds of audiophiles. Those who are tubes and those who are going to be tubes.

Audiophiles tend to write checks to hi-end gears their bodies can’t cash.

It’s easier to convince an audiophile to upgrade his cables than his speakers which ends up costing the same as the speakers.

In a perfect world, the Brits make mid fi gears, the Germans make cars, the Americans run securities. In a not so perfect world, the Brits make cars, the American make mid fi gears, the Germans run securities.

He whose DAC costs more than the entire system has dog ears.

You can make an audiophile buy any gear in your shop by convincing him his chosen gear is also one of your favorite.

The greatest audiophile equalizer is Audiogon.

I don’t have any data but I am pretty sure a high percentage of college drop outs either become writers or audiophile addicts.


It's odd.  I always felt it's the solid state that has a bit of a haze while tubes have better transparency.  Maybe some have attributed this "haze" as being laid back and having less of treble present.  I always felt that solid state a lot of time is guilty of having the treble being a bit hot therefore having an artificial clarity.