I find toe in very speaker dependent. Focal, Magico and Revel are on my list of little to nothing.
So, I listened to a $1Million Dollar System
So, I listened to a $1Million dollar system.
A somewhat local dealer had an event that showcased the Dan D’Agostino Relentless Epic mono block amps, Relentless Preamplifier, Wilson Audio Chronosonic XVX speakers and subsonic subwoofer. Along with the Transparent cabling, HRS stands, DCS Dac and other accessories I estimate the total cost to be over $1Miilion.
I was able to sit in the front row center. The speakers estimated to weigh over 700 lbs. were toed in quite a bit towards the listener.
The demonstrator played a lot of obscure music that centered on some very deep bass. I must admit the bass was quite impressive.
Eventually (reluctantly) the demonstrator played a few tunes that I requested, and I was quite surprised.
With this million-dollar system the music sounded quite dull, the rep called it “mellow”, but to me it was dull. There was no life to the music, limited highs and zero music coming from the extreme left- right.
For instance, I use the Linda Ronstadt track “Blue Bayou” as a reference. Within this track at about the 40-60 second mark there is a mandolin that plays in the extreme left channel. On many systems that information is buried deep into the mix. However, systems with high resolution can play it clearly. Unfortunately, with this million-dollar system I could not even detect it.
So why is it? Can the Wilson speakers be adjusted in such a way as to accent the bass and attenuate the mid-treble? If so, why would they demonstrate that way? Were the speakers too toed in? Or was it because there were about 10 people in the room (btw, a large room) which muted some of the speaker’s energy? Whatever, I was NOT impressed.
ozzy
113 responses Add your response
12many, Yes, I have my speakers with a very slight toe in. I guess with extreme toe in it produces more depth but at the expense of the soundstage. I still don’t understand the lack of upper frequencies with the demo. I always thought Wilson speakers were actually tipped up in the high frequencies. Could it be the Dan D’Agostino Relentless Epic mono blocks? Again, the presenter called it "mellow". ozzy |
I find that too much toe in reduces seperation or imaging effect in my room. I find I need the speaker more straight toward me with slight inward slant to allow the sound to hit the side wall and reflect back to me from the side. I wish I could recall the song, but I was listening this weekend and I literally had to look to the side to see if someone was to the side of me making noise. I was surprised by the imaging I got. |
@ozzy +1, brilliant! I notice we both use an ADD-POWR product, I am using a QRT Octave (QRT was previous iteration of ADD-POWR before Bill selling it to Nordost) and you are using the Sorcer. |
I understand and I agree with you. I've heard a lot of high dollar systems that are poorly positioned, in a crappy room that sound like crap and easily bested by a mid level system placed right and a proper room. It's a bummer you had a bad experience, Wilson speakers sound wonderful when done properly and I am grateful I was able to meet Dave Wilson.
|
@ozzy your room looks great, why is that panel/speaker blocking the screen? |
I have had the privilege of hearing a similar system some years ago… however, it was in a permanent set up and there was one seat… the one I was in. It was revelatory. No guessing it’s potential, I could hear it. I have been to a number of demos like this that were just terrible. Systems like this are made for one person… installation comes with a team of people and it takes time. I have found these demos interesting to see the presentations and after fifty years of pursuing the high end I can often hear through the problems.
But, the problem… the demo set up and group audience. |
Without having heard the system i can speculate, Not so good dealer, rather things were assembled in a hurry, not a good match somewhere, i am not fond if Wilson speakers but i know Transparent cabling to be musical, probably too much of a good thing subtracting dynamics. I was expecting to read that he treble was not integrated with the rest of the spectrum but your comments of lacking life suggest otherwise. Anyway it is not the first time that negative comments appear on uber expensive gear, the same applies to budget ones too, bit in this case the scale is bigger, the point is that not all who trade them have the knowledge, experience to handle them correctly, with patience and added experimentation that set can play way much better.
|