Should Speaker Manufactures provide a Frequency Response Graph?

@seanheis1 Maybe.  I am always up to learn new things.  If you are ever in New Jersey, shoot me a message and swing by,  We should be at Audio Connection in Verona real soon with our 6SN7 tube preamp and 6SN7 hybrid power amplifier.

Always, Happy Listening..

The graph, response, etc of a review has always bored me to tears.  I don’t care about them at all.

If a review went from specs to the conclusion, I’d be ok with that.

As the the Tekton lawsuit…what a weenie!  Reviewers should tell it as they hear it or graph it, without fear of being sued.  

@seanheis1 

Thank you for making my point. The variables will be a lot and, again, that will change once that speaker is in my room. Therefore, if you want to post anechoic measurements or from your back yard I don't care. That's not going to tell me how it sounds in my room. Most people don't have a dedicated room so chances are the room and placement will have more to do with the sound which is why I don't pay attention to ASR of Erins measurements. I have yet to understand why people put so much stock into that as well as reviews.

@seanheis1 --  just a quick observation -- Consumers Reports has been publishing reviews of all manner of goods since 1936 without the maker's permission.   Yelp is full of public comments -- many very negative -- about products and services that were made without asking the company first. You can find lots of complaints about products and services on the Better Business Bureau's web site. There are many more examples.

So,  what is important about the Tekton review not having Eric's prior approval?  Is he a special case?

So,  what is important about the Tekton review not having Eric's prior approval?  Is he a special case?

@mlsstl Yes, Eric is a special case in that it has become a pubic dispute and gives us an inside look about what normally goes on behind the scenes with reviewers and manufacturers. When normal protocols go away, we see what can happen. 

With Erin & Amir's ability to receive gear from subscribers, it puts the hi-fi industry on notice. Small boutique brands can potentially be destroyed. 

We in this hobby are Audio Application Sound Specialists, or AASS‘s for short.  We do not design speakers, amps, DACs, cables or turntables.  We design audio systems.  Therefore, what matters most to us are the basic interface specifications of each component.  For example, for a given speaker we need power handling range, frequency response range, efficiency, impedance curve, ported/unported, size, and weight.  And finally the looks for those who don’t listen in the dark.  For more advanced work the Q factor might be beneficial to know.  Nothing in the design/development specs is going to give us much of a clue as to how the speaker sounds or images in our room along with our ancillary equipment and cables.  The speaker designer and builder is doing his best to make a product that looks pleasing, plays well with various amps and is reliable all while meeting a price point.  I have been known to blow a tweeter or two in my day.

What an AASS. Nice to know there's a term that describes me too. 😄

@seanheis1 -- "Eric is a special case in that it has become a pubic dispute..."

Umm... if you had bothered to check out how this whole thing started, it was self-induced by Eric. The original ASR review, which was said the speaker was so-so rather than "bad", was in October 2023 and commenting (with no Eric yet) was over with in a few weeks. It sat dormant until February when Eric decided to get on his high horse and accuse ASR of publishing a false review. Then he threatened litigation. HE made it an issue with his accusations and threats.

(BTW, on a similar note, Bose sued Consumers Reports for a bad review in 1970. The case went all the way to the US Supreme Court, Bose lost.)

It would have been far smarter for Eric to wear the ASR review as a badge of honor. No product is going to appeal to every segment of the market and plenty of people -- as illustrated in this and other threads -- don’t care for ASR’s opinion. There are plenty of buyers for the "I’m interested in how it sounds, not how it measures" products. Eric’s own behavior has likely chased away many of those potential buyers.

Plenty of small boutique audio products do just fine in spite of less than glowing ASR reviews. But, they don’t threaten litigation.

@mlsstl I am fully aware of the dispute...and I didn't feel the need to weigh in on Eric's behavior...that drama doesn't interest me. 

Both times you have called my @ handle, you are assuming things I didn't say...I believe this is called the "straw man fallacy." Or possibly a reading comprehension issue? You also were impolite so back at you ;-)  

@seanheis1 -- I was reacting to your specific comment in the original post that a review was done "without his [Eric's] permission".  I thought it very odd to strongly imply that a product manufacturer's "permission" is needed before anyone is allowed to publicly give their opinion about a product.   Yours was an odd choice of phrase if you meant something else.  Fine by me if that is a "reading comprehension" issue in your mind,

But, this is a public forum so no one should be surprised at the wide variety of comments in response to a topic like this.  Internet forums are not a good choice if one is looking for a safe space.

@mlsstl permission is the norm so a review done without permission was worth mentioning for contextual reasons...no other implications.   

it sounds like you are trying to justify rude forum behavior. Just treat it like real life...you know the place that's not so safe if you provoke another male ;-)  

@seanheis1 -- I think you are confusing "permission" from a company for a review with notifying them, the latter which is perhaps more common with the "influencer" crowd that generates money from views and the traditional audio web sites that often started as magazines.  To my knowledge, ASR has never asked permission or given notice to a manufacturer prior to testing an item, though they have often interacted with a manufacturer after the review has been posted. I don't think any other company has reacted the way Tekton has -- it is Tekton's behavior that has caused the fracas, not the review itself. As noted before, it was a complete non-issue for months after the original review.

That said, I'm content with what's been posted in this thread and those reading are free to draw whatever conclusions they like.

@mlsstl in this specific case Erin did notify Eric that he was reviewing his product, to make sure he had the correct listening axis. However, he didn't have Eric's permission to review his product or publish measurements....which is the norm for print media and YouTubers who have enough subscribers to be sent product. 

ASR normally doesn't have permission to publish measurements and Amir is the biggest exception to the norm.

Other companies have reacted similar to Eric in that they have threatened litigation. You don't have to go back as far as Bose v Consumer Reports. However, Erin leaked the information and put Eric on blast...that is uncommon. 

@seanheis1 Actually, Erin wrote to Eric to ask questions BEFORE he reviewed the speakers. So, Eric KNEW it was happening.

Erin was above board on this. 

So, we're back to needing permission before making public comment about a product.   Would love to have a list of those other companies that have threatened or instigated litigation over an unwanted audio review.

I think I've said what I have to say.

@botrytis I know this and even stated this. Please see my statement below.

in this specific case Erin did notify Eric that he was reviewing his product, to make sure he had the correct listening axis.

@mlsstl I didn't use the words "needing permission." You did...creating a strawman argument.

I wrote "didn't have permission" which is a fact and not a value judgement.  

"without his permission" was your wording, not mine, from the opening post.  You should wear it with pride!

I ran into a situation with needing a speaker frequency response, but the maker wasn't comfortable with providing me with one for basically a lot of the reasons many have listed here: people not really knowing what they are looking at, not really knowing what they are listening to, nor really knowing what their room is doing...and 'not knowing' also means not truly objectively educated understanding. 

I don't know what Tekton is dealing with specifically, but I would bet that the frequency response of the reviewers, if 90% accurate to the 'voicing' of the speaker, is very important to them and "what makes their speaker sound_______________" and may feel proprietary to Tekton.  I would imagine in general audio companies are constantly battling what I would bet the world battles endlessly: everybody knows just enough to blow themselves up....and possibly a manufacturer with 'just enough' information that makes them dangerous.  

Charts are helpful/useful, but people can easily mis-read them, misunderstand them, and make incorrect claims/assumptions about them.  If all things were equal and proper, if you listened to X-speaker in a room specifically set up and treated by the manufacturer that best represented that speaker, and you bought it based on that sound you heard.....then I could see a chart being useful....to help you change YOUR ROOM to get it to better match what the X-speaker did in the manufacturer's room.    In my specific case I wanted the makers frequency response to help illustrate to someone what their room was doing to ruin what they spent thousands of dollars on. 

I know first hand that peoples hearing, and their brain, can over ride nearly anything.  A frequency chart could do the same, without even remotely knowing/understanding objectively what that chart was showing.   

Not really when an idea of "trusting your ears" is widely used as a sales pitch and extreme lack of education of consumer on how to read and comprehend those graphs.

Notably before 90's graphs, schematics and detailed reference manuals had been provided with purchase, but after 90's such documentation was replaced with wording of not to go "inside box" to avoid electric shock.

Educated consumer might not "trust" unless information provided. Therefore such education has been diminished so sales can go quicker and larger.