SET Shootout China VS The USA

Thanks @charles1dad as Ive stated a few times on this forum, we prefer our audio systems to live with us rather than the inverse. The system to which you refer is just that….unlike some on Audiogon, our systems aren’t intended to evoke wow comments from guests, 7nless its playing music.

to hear a good quality 300b amplifier and decide for yourself. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WEll I've learned to take what he says with some ~~conisderations~~~. He has his opinions, but certainly with more experience, He has desined a 300B SET. Again, with so many big designs out there in the 300B, the tube must have some magic, otherwise no one would buy them. I'm glad this amp turned out to be a PP vs my misunderstanding it was going to be a SET,,Actually soem of the SET linear magic has worn a bit thin,,now that the initial **WOW** exp has passed. I perfer this more dynamics of a PP sound. There is a bit of harshness to the 2A3 vs the KT88. Hoping a higher quality *mesh* plate resolves a bit of the resonsnces, But what i am hearing is well worth the minus ofa bit of resonaces, aka distortion,, (5% for this tube). My tech thinks the so call *mesh* plate , might be a bit of snskeoil,,hes skeptcal I'll get any gains vs my current Psvane. However reading a 6 Moons review on the Sophia Electric 300B Mesh, if even half of what the review say s is true, I'll bea happy camper. The Full Music looks identical to the Sophia. I will bea unhappy camper if the gains are miniscule nuance, not for $600/quad.

it’s their simplicity that makes them so special. 

@mikem, Agree 100%

these “shouty” type sensitive speakers can often be too bright and harsh ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I can easily understand what you are saying about a SET witha FR/horn speaker that might have some **issues** = such as Fostex with their characteristic *shout**.

This Yaquin 2A3, is not forgiving.

That is to say if there is any **weakness* in the FR speaker,, this 2A3 will **accentuate** that **flaw**

This tiny bit of resonances (how much due to the tube typical character of a 2A3, and how much is due to this lower priced Psvane,,can’t say) ``` is  definitely there in the sound...

But I gain in resolution, instrument separation, female vocals with passion. 

The dual DavidLouis pick it up.

 

So a FR/horn that might have some resonances, spikes in certain fq’s,. whatever,,, might find this 2A3 amp not to their taste. One really needs a neutral speaker to make this amp work. So far I;’m happy with any **weakness* of this combination. Its all acceptable, nothing grating on my nerves, Nothing at all fatiguing.

 

~~Is it a sound comparable to a

Kronzilla 4 tube mono block, with AER’s top driver,

 

,,not

It is a budget system, nothing more, but certainly nothing less. How it compares to new EHKT88’s, 6 months we will find out. Afterwards in say 8 months from now, Mesh 2A3 vs EHKT88’s. More to come.....

@ghasley 

😊

Your Merason DAC is a flies under the radar intriguing component.

Charles

@charles1dad the Merason is VERY good. Very good. Worth a listen as I can’t promise it isn’t system dependent but I have listened extensively to the Merason through an Audio Note OTO SE Signature, a Leben, two Shindo systems and it just slays…it has displaced a MSB Discrete, an AQUA La Scala Optologic and I couldn’t recommend it more highly for others to audition.

 

Now @mozartfan let things settle in. As long as your speakers are suitable, a proper kt88 based push-pull amp should not be smoother than a proper 2a3 amp, push-pull or set. Whao can say though as you have a whole lot going on there. What does your tech say?

What does your tech say?

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Just ran by what I said here,, &&a 2A3 has superior mids than the KT series tube..** well tech wants to know **exactly which KT are you refering to...** hummm, tell ya what,,, humm, lets say this 2A3 took me by surprised, Better? well hard to say now , as its been 4 months since I heard the KT88’s, and those had 4k+ hours and ran the KT88’s via a Thor speaker and a single FR speaker and or a 8 FR + a W4 FR, THe W8+ W6 is a whole nother ball game. So all is not even .

 

You mentioned, **KT88’s as smoother vs a PP 2A3,,** Might have to agree, **Might** as in 1st off have to hear the new EHKT88’s, mid summer 2) have to0 hear a 2A3 mesh. Late summer So **The Jury is still out..** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

What I will say is this Bottom line *IF** The 2A3 mesh plates do perform as 6 Moons says the Sophia 300B mesh perform,, well then we have a solid vote for 2A3 PP vs a KT88 PP. There does not exist a meshed KT88, only solid plates. This may give the advantage to the 2A3, Follow?? As you know these discussiions around tubes can get slippery. Not justa few weeks ago,,**SET, yeah #1..**

Now, cant say that. I actually by mistake or by lucky chance,,hit on this 2A3 PP circuit. Will the mesh elimiante some of the ever so slight harshness/in some mids fq’s??? Late summer we will know..

Give me some jazz!

Give me some jazz! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wanted to fulfill your wish with Diana Krall, a perfect track which displays fq spikes on piano, where other xover speakers are going to have issues. vs these FR dual speakers,,no spikes whatsoever. But can’t. Had a good rain last night, its FINALLY cool outside and humidity is at 100%. = the chips in the DAC are not happy, soaking in 100% humidity. Tiny pops. have to wait a good hour before the DAC heats up and dries out the chips. I’ve never heard it this bad before, although this is the 1st winter I had the DAC, so Now i know cooler temps + 100% humidity = DAC needs 2 hours warm up time to dry out, Dont want to run heater as we are enjoying the cooler temps inside the house, finally,... what a hot winter we are having. What I can say is the Diana Krall cd is recorded with a traditional jazz warmth. Too warm. But with this speaker, this amp, its all nice and mellow, clean, voice stunning accurate and te warm coloration toned down. There are so many wonderful KT88 amplifiers now avaliable. Cayin, Jadis, Line Magnetic, Willenston, Doge, Prima Luna, Muzishare. plenty others I did not mention. These will work with all speakers. But ideally, a SET or PP with SET type tubes is best for a FR speaker.

 

EDIT~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So I steped away to go listen to music,,and the thought occured, Although this amp is not a  pure SET circuit, the 2A3 still adds some linear midrange which a  KT88 does not posess to ~~the same degree~~~, How s that fora  compromise.

= a KT88 will not be as effective, that is misses the linear midrange of a  2A3 whether the 2A3 is a  SET circuit of a  PP design.

So theres no doubt at this point. Witha  FR system a  SET or a  low watt tube is not only ideal, buta  must have  to effectively bringa  FR to its true midrange magic.

No I will not discuss this with my tech, as he's going to argue the other POV.

Then again for full Orchestra, a  KT88 is the superior voice for a complex band width in a  FR speaker,, which is why I do not like a  FR to go over the Golden Sens mark, at 95db sens. 

96 db is too high for my preferences. 

91db is a  bit too low. 

It depends on the FR speaker..

As you know these discussiions around tubes can get slippery. Not justa few weeks ago,,**SET, yeah #1..**

Now, cant say that. I actually by mistake or by lucky chance,,hit on this 2A3 PP circuit. Will the mesh elimiante some of the ever so slight harshness/in some mids fq’s??? Late summer we will know..

In my opinion I just think that you rush to conclusions prematurely. You are doing some interesting things and expanding your experience with different types of tubes and amplifiers.

Just take time to absorb new discoveries and let things sink in, no need to declare absolutes at this stage (Or perhaps any subsequent stage). You note that discussions about tubes can get slippery. A lot of truth there.

You can have two 2A3 amplifiers, however they differ in power supply quality, output transformers, type of coupling capacitors and internal wiring. Despite both utilizing the same 2A3 tubes the two amplifiers can/will sound quite different. You have to account for the numerous variables involved. Continue to explore as you’re definitely learning as you go.

Charles

@mozartfan One of your main problems here is you're paying attention to tube type and not much else. Look at Charles list above especially output transformers which really make or break a tube amp's quality. Parts matter it's why generally tube amps, SET amps especially are more expensive. You should let your tech go over your new amp he obviously builds amps and knows parts quality, I suspect your Yaquins could be a good platform for some parts mods that could boost SQ significantly.

@jond 

 

Yeah well my tech really does not wish to get into any **mods**, 

He figures let the amp **do its thing**.

He last words were (in spite knowing well the trans were Z11), *who knows you might like it..** 

And I do,

I actually give the edge to a  2A3 PP vs  the much more common PP the KT in all its variatiosn, EL34, 88,120,150.

IMHO this 2A3 wins out over the KT series.

I try to explain in the video below.

The Diana Krall cd is the ultimate test cd for any and all speakers. 

If your speaker can make it all they way through Diana 's cd, then you have a  winning speaker.

 

As I try to explain in this video.

should be uploaded by now.....

 

This is all rubbish!

 

 

@mozartfan once again, your absolute conclusions are premature and your sample size is limited. It doesn’t mean you won’t enjoy it, it just means that your conclusions lack credibility. For instance, I have an el34 based amplifier in my closet which would likely change your opinion about absolute tube type superiority.

 

At any rate, I will leave you alone now. It is abundantly clear you aren’t looking for opinions or advice, you are just looking for an audience. Best.

credibility. For instance, I have an el34 based amplifier in my closet which would likely change your opinion about absolute tube type superiority.

 

 

EL34=KT88=KT120=KT150 hardly even a nuance difference. One has more power vs the other is all I noted. now 2A3 is different vs KT series. Just my 2 cent opinion, Take it or leave it.

Last of my ideas on this matter,,,,, Jadis’ KT170, now here might be something special. Still I ’ll take a 2A3 PP (not SET) vs jadis KT170. Just my opinion, take ir or leave it.

Oy vey!

Charles 

@ charles 1 

if I follow the crowd,, what will I learn?

Thats not already common knowledge??

Who would have ever suggested a  SET type PP design??

Never heard sucha  thing as a  low watt PP circuit.

Now my FR hasa   good match.

I was  always thinking,, KT PP is too much power. Yet SET's not enough dynamics for big full orchestra...

Dilemma.

 

However I did have at one time a  Cayin El34  smallest Cayin model , had ultra linear and triode switch..

I sold it off a  few months later,  thinking not enough drive for the Thors.

Yet perhaps a perfect match fora  FR system..

This  lil 2A3 PP is the answer to my quest for the ideal amplification for a  FR system. 

Hopefully the tubes can  hold up under a  four driver  load speaker system. 

If the tubes begin shorting out too early,, I may have to drop  some drivers and make ita  single FR + a  single tweeter.

Time will tell....

If so, then the Defy will have to carry the dual FR + dual tweeters/big orchestra. 

The 2A3 only for light chamber, solo piano., single FR + single tweeter. 

 

 

if I follow the crowd,, what will I learn

@mozartfan 

Follow the crowd? I am the one encouraging you to continue your current discoveries in regard to tubes and particularly DHT tubes. Again you have a tendency (In my opinion) to make judgements hastily. But in the end you have to be you. BTW,  DHT push pull amplifiers are nothing new, have been around for some time. I do understand that this genre is new to you.  Best of luck to you.

Charles 

The meshplate triode tube I am familiar with is the EML 2a3.  I ran a quad of these in my Audio Note Kageki amps (parallel single-ended).  I like their sound.  The soundstage was gigantic, open and enveloping.  If someone thought it was a by hyper-realistic (in a technicolor sort of way), I would not disagree.  A friend thought it sounded a touch phasey; I would sort of agree, but, image placement was precise, so it was not truly out-of-phase sounding.  

The most exotic meshplate I've heard is a meshplate 252.  This tube is so rare that I know someone who was offered a trade of a pair of solidplate 252 plus $20,000 forin exchange for a pair of meshplate 252s.  The offer was declined. 

By the way, the Western Electric 59As (the amp that runs 252s) is a terrific sounding amp.  I could never afford the amp, and even if I had one, I could not see running it very often because of the crazy cost of its tubes.

@mozartfan sometimes the crowd is actually right. In this case you received the amp sometime on 12/18. Later that day and into the 19th you are proclaiming the amp a world beater, which may or may not true…its your world and therefore your world to beat. Respectfully, you don’t yet understand what the tubes or the amp will sound like. You ponder a Jadis kt170 based amp when few have heard that amp let alone the new kt170 tube.

 

To the Audiogon community’s great credit, people are being very gentle with you but the homebrew, fr driver speakers with an extra driver and a tweeter daisy chained as your baseline with an unknown Yaquin amp and tubes with abiut 10-20 hours on it at the time of your proclamations….seriously, you should give yourself a chance to hear whats going on and there is literally no way for you to get a taste of what you may or may not have in this exercise. Give it some time, make notes of what is going on, how it is changing and whether its for better or worse. 

to make judgements hastily. But in the end you have to be you. BTW, DHT push pull amplifiers are nothing new, have been around for some time ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I bought the amp, behind my tech’s back, had he foreknown I’d buy the amp, he would have pulled out his 1929 RCA tube data book and pointed out 1st data ~~~5% distortion on self bias** wopping,,

and I may have dismissed his 5% as no big deal.

I would have thought,,well thats 90 yrs ago, perhaps Psvane has developed a new tube that avoids most of this 5% distort,,,, He again pointed it out as he biased the tubes. Auto bias 2.5 %. much better, but this yaquin is self bias 5%. and pointed out other issues in data witha AB1 PP 2A3 design in the tubes plate dispication, voltage and such. But he did go on to say **who knows you might like it in spite of these inherent issues..**

And now I know about 5% distortion,, its there in the ~~luckily ~~~ upper mids, not   upper bass/low mids,, which would grate on my nerves...

,, Its only in certain fq’s, not the entire range. My DL’s can deal with it, as both speakers are near distortion free. They can absor the 5% with ease. The Philips tweeter kicks in at 5khz, so it does not have to deal with the midrange distortion. The only way this fantastic amp will work ina system is IF 1) FR speakers ONLY 2) FR with very low distortion peaks , that is neutral throughout this 5% distortion from the tube. Trade offs as usual. I accept the 5%, but in return the tube rewards with very nice midrange, vocals, soundstage.

The KT88 has , not sure like 2% distortion,, but you do not get the superior ```hard to say exactly~~~ but superior something or other.

Now will the Full Music  Mesh Plates

soften up some of this distortion, mellow out the ever so slight harshness... remains to be heard. Stay tuned.

I prefer Faith Hill, Diana Krall via the 5% distort 2A3PP vs a KT88PP. All day long. My suggestion is if you are going into a FR system as a 2nd system, this is the amp to buy.. @ Charles No very few of these 2A3 PP amps in the market place, Plenty of SET 2A3, this Yaquin and maybe 1 or 2 others in the PP design. This amplifier will not work with xover low sens speakers.

 

Dont even try.

@mozartfan sometimes the crowd is actually right ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My mantra is Never ever follow the crowd. If I go the wrong road, I tack it up to exp. Otherwise I follow my own course after my Thor upgrade disaster and listening to my tech saysing **Yes seems 1 of the 15 year old Millenniums are 1/2 ohm off from the other,,,better spend $700 on a new pair..** so I did,

For absoluetly nothing.

Both pairs sound identical. Tweeters last FOREVER if not abused, only swap out diaphram every 30+++ years, Thats it, $50 bucks. Remember what old Frankie sings **And I did it my OWN wayyyyy** I never ever follow the crowd.

@mozartfan 

 

I prefer Faith Hill, Diana Krall via the 5% distort 2A3PP vs a KT88PP. All day long. My suggestion is if you are going into a FR system as a 2nd system, this is the amp to buy..

 

Sadly you lost half of your audience with your first sentence and the remainder with your last sentence. 

@larryi  Funny you mention hyper realistic with the 2a3. When I was running 2a3 monoblocks with Omegas I often thought about this particular characteristic of internal luminescence. Mids had the sense of being lit up from within, very unusual, never heard this prior or since.

 

@mozartfan  While its good to be excited, your credibility is seriously lacking. I mentioned it prior, all topologies, systems, equipment may move someone. This is all subjective evaluation, you come across as being objective when using extreme adjectives such as best, greatest, only, etc.

 

Saying particular tubes always sound a particular way is simply not true. As others have mentioned previously, so many variables to account for.

 

Your 2a3 tubes in your particular amp in your particular system really say nothing to us.

@larryi Funny you mention hyper realistic with the 2a3. When I was running 2a3 monoblocks with Omegas I often thought about this particular characteristic of internal luminescence. Mids had the sense of being lit up from within, very unusual, never heard this prior or since. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

WOW now thats a amplifier. 2A3 monos. Unreal.

 

Agree, the KT series ain’t no slouch , as i’m listening to sym via the 2A3, the KT88’s deliver a similiar result.

We are only talking slight shades of nuances here. But over all, for my preference in soundstage, I prefer the 2A3 PP with a FR speaker. Low watt amp always works superior with FR vs a KT PP. Its my personal preference , maybe not yours. But as you guys know ,

I’m done with xover low sens speakers.

And I know darn well none of you are about to follow my lead.

FR are superior. For so so many reasons. call me Philistine all you want.

I am The Iconoclast.

 

and yes I did correct Yaqin  sp in the YT uploads. 

@mozartfan Just so you know, that 5% figure is for the tube alone; it does not include the rest of the circuit of an SET. The distortion of that at full power is more like 10%. If you really want to hear what almost any SET does, you need a speaker that makes no demands of the amp over about 20% of full power, so as to avoid higher ordered harmonic generation. Of that means a speaker that is more efficient than any 'full range' speaker can be- for a 2A3 no if ands or buts you need horns.

At least if you want to produce realistic sound pressure.

@ Atmasphere

 

Yes my tech Richard, just wrote  to say 5% as vol gain goes up more distortion,, that 5% goes down as vol gain goes down.

I listen at ridiculously low SPL levels, so for me this 5% is no big deal.

well yes at full blast evena KT88 will show distortion.

My tech and Charles among others wish  that I retarct some of my strong opinions, as if to say 

**the 2A3 PP  is just 1 of many options, 1 circuit is not superior to any other..**

BALONEY. Just a simple one  size fits all platitude.

The 2A3 PP is superior to any and all KT circuits.

I would bet outshoots Jadis' new super KT170  Crown Jewel.

 

Yes I understand as a  FR sens goes up, better response froma  low powered SET or low powered PP *SET type tube* 300B/2A3.

But as you know the higher in sens you go up ina  FR, lower the bass response, = too forward a  midrange.

 

95db sens ina FR is my very limit.

I would not buy a  96db sesn driver, as there is no way I can intergrate a  W6 FR.

Just 1 db makes all the difference. I got very lucky on the davidLouis

VX8 95db

VX6 93db sens

made it by 1 db on both

If the VX6 was 94db, it  might cause trouble.

Finally everything is falling into place. 

Hundreds of hours research.

Lots of  cash, mistakes, errors.

Luck has finally tured in my favor.

About to upload yet another Yaqin vid/

Might stir up the honets nest, so let me put my protective gear on....

 

 

@MF... What's "dispication"? Can't seem to find that one in my audiophile thesaurus 😵

**the 2A3 PP  is just 1 of many options, 1 circuit is not superior to any other..**

BALONEY. Just a simple one  size fits all platitude.

The 2A3 PP is superior to any and all KT circuits.

@mozartfan 

If you run a KT88 UltraLinear, using an output transformer with the UL taps set up properly, you can get the same or better linearity out of that circuit that you get from a 2A3. If the taps aren't right neither will be the linearity so I am stressing that point. If the driver and voltage amplifier are then fully differential, the distortion without feedback will be dramatically lower than the 2A3 amp at nearly any power level.

You'll wind up with a more transparent, more musical distortion signature and therefore a more transparent, more musical amp with a lot more power.

Although I don't know of such an amp there may well be one out there (most I know of use textbook circuits from the 1950s); having been a manufacturer for over 47 years I'm really hesitant to make a blanket statement such as yours in the quote above- in a nutshell, its blatantly false.

 

Hi @mozartfan ,

You can’t compare amplifiers and make conclusions just by output tube type and transformer! There are so many factors like schematics and quality and quantity (capacitor value) of parts.

I have DIY 300B SET for many years.

During 15 years I made dozens of modifications to this amplifier.
1. I tried different types of 300Bs, 6F6s (driver), 6sn7s (input) .
2. I tested 5 different kinds of coupling capacitors.
3. I upgraded the power supply including choke, capacitor types, value, schematics.
4. I changed the bias current of all tubes.
5. I changed cathode resistors and capacitors.
6. I changed output transformers.
Each of these changes can make a dramatic influence on sound!
If you don’t try, you don’t have any idea how all these things are important.
For example, in my case, upgrading of cathode resistors and capacitors made more difference vs upgrading output transformers (from James Audio to Hashimoto)!
Bias current of the driver and input tubes made a huge difference!
Coupling capacitor quality is supercritical too!

I also think, using two fullrange drivers in parallel and tweeter (without properly designed filter) works against basic idea of fullrange (a point source of sound.) It makes sound congested and messy and destroys soundstage and focus.

Regards,

Alex

really hesitant to make a blanket statement such as yours in the quote above- in a nutshell, its blatantly false. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ OK grant it, I have not heard a KT type linear SET, nor a EL34 Triode. Perhaps they offer same , even superior sonics vs this 2A3. Quite possible true, But as you say, there are so few Ultra Linera KT88 and Triode EL34 avaliable. I had the Cayin EL34 Triode/Ultra, but sold it off, bessides the trans were a bit too small for my preferences. I am speaking of a PP KT series amplifier, such as the Jadis Defy7 one of the finest sounding PP amplifiers ever made. Can not match what i am hearing in the 2A3. In some passages, both very close, in other cds, the 2A3 is more evoloving, **REVEALING***

Each of these changes can make a dramatic influence on sound! ~~~~~~~~~~

 

I  know some audiophiles are not won over on swaping parts. = A cap is a cap is a cap...

I am a believer.

I prefer Takman Rey metal vs any and all carbon **smoothhhh* resistors. Caps, Mundorf SESGO or Silvergold EVO, whatever I can afford.

Tubes also make a gain, Teles in the pre, and have yet to roll these stock Psvane. My tech thinks there is not much to gain swaping out power tubes...we will see, that experiement waits til mid summer.

I also think, using two fullrange drivers in parallel and tweeter (without properly designed filter) works against basic idea of fullrange (a point source of sound.) It makes sound congested and messy and destroys soundstage and focus ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is exactly the same argument raised by ~~THe Association of Full Range Speakers** aka THE Club of FR Enthusiasts,,over atn the DIY forum, Full range section,.,, **We tried this dual thingy,, did not work, wont work,,dont even consider attempting such a scheme..** WEll I broke THEIR rules and disobeyed THEIR authority,,,**I did it my wayyy** as old Frankie Sings They asked to see measurements, graphs, testing lab results etc. I had none. gave me the boot PERMANTLY banned. hahahaha Did not learn EVEN one thing from those **scientists** haha I like to break the rules, or lets say go against common opinions/beliefs. As I posted elsewhere,,this Dual thing will only work under with certain drivers. You nor anyone else in the world might say **and you actually like THAT sound???** Yep , dont touch my Dual system, I love it. 2nd tweeter arriving next wek, Dual FR + Dual T's. If all the big guns can get away with multiple driver systems,, I figure why not I.

@mozartfan It would be really cool if you could attend an audio show or maybe there is a great dealer near you. You really owe it to yourself to hear the differences between all of the topographies so that you can find out where you really are.

 

I remember vividly many, many moons ago when a very helpful dealer played a series of amplifiers for me, several tube and several solid state, in descending order of price. He played them through a very popular speaker at the time. My conclusion then: I couldn't hear much (if any) difference. He agreed. That made me feel great.

 

Then, he repeated the same exercise with a pair of exceptional speakers...everything else the same. Same descending order of price, etc, etc. The sonic differences between the amps was striking, astonishing actually. The dealer knew what he was doing. He was a WWII era radio operator, had started a radio repair shop post WWII and evolved it into a fine hifi shop which made it into a third generation. His moral to the story was to pick the speaker you like and then if you can't tell the differences between the amplifiers, relax and buy the least expensive amplifier whose sound met your goals.  His BIG advice though was just because you can't hear the difference doesn't mean there isn't a difference, it just means your speakers aren't up to the task.  He added that if I ever intended to upgrade the speakers then always buy the best electronics that you can afford at the time to ensure the speaker upgrade down the road would have the chance to pay dividends.

 

No offense intended @mozartfan but if you can't hear the differences of all of the vast array of amplification varietals that you have implied you have experienced first hand, then it isn't the amplifiers, its more than likely your speakers aren't up to the task of revealing the differences. You should be celebrating though! If you like your speakers and all of the amps sound similar to your ears and you are happy with the sound then pat yourself on the back!!! You found happiness and can achieve it for an exceptional value. @atmasphere is an amazing resource, he is an absolute expert when he is talking about amplifier design (not just OTL's but generally all topologies). He would be the first to tell you if you are happy with the sound, then stop. He would also tell you that amplifiers sound different and if you don't hear the differences then its probably the transducers.  

 

I recognize, however, that you may be more likely than not going to argue with me and say that it can't possibly be your speakers...in that case, enjoy the solo wrestling match. Warm regards and happy holidays.

Now I agree dual FR makes no sense whatsoever, Its a  completely ridiculous idea,,a  single is really all you need. Duals can make confusion in the sound waves,, 2 VC's bouncing off each other all muddy, convoluted, distorted, just a  blob of ,,poop..

But for some reason I like the sound of this poop system. 

..

The opinion in this video reflects my own subjective reaction to the 2A3.

KT type tube  offers wonderful colors, imagery, low distortion, no coloration, no fatigue.

I know this fora  fact hearing the DEfy7.

But if It came down to chosing one or the other,,I'd have to chose the 2A3 as my premier system. 

Bass are near equal, highs a tad superior in the 2A3, buts its in the midrange where the 2A3 opens up recordings that a  KT series tube just does not make happen.

 

2A3 beats out the KT series tube, EL34,88,120, 150

If you feel offrended by any of the comments in my video, just disregard and move on.

Its only my opinion and 2$'s ,,,which ...will get you a  only just a   Starbucks $2 cofee.

 

And no I ain't budging on my opinion.

 

 

 

KT type tube offers wonderful colors, imagery, low distortion, no coloration, no fatigue.

I know this fora fact hearing the DEfy7.

Jadis Is not the only one to make amps based on the KT88. You might want to hear a Harmon Kardon Citation 2 prior to saying you know how a KT88 sounds. Keep in mind this comes from a manufacturer that has only made triode power amps (and now also a class D amp...).

Regarding your speakers, what you are experiencing is that there is some destructive cancellation that is happening in your system because of the spacing of the drivers. This is actually helping prevent some of the more painful comb filtering that can otherwise occur when two such drivers are placed side by side. I’ve heard speakers set up this way. They are not bad, but seriously are not the last word in resolution by any means. They are attractive IME because all you have to do is get them in a box, wire them up and sound comes out. But if you want to hear proper imaging out of them, your head needs to be in a vise so as to be held always in the right position...

The box in the image above this post looks as if its ported. Did you do anything to prevent slap echos inside the box?

@mozartfan Hey it's great you like your system so much at the end of the day that's really all that matters. Don't think folks here are arguing or disagreeing merely sharing our experiences with many different amps. My previous amp was a pushpull el34 amp triode wired and Class A with vintage output transformers it sounded fantastic. My current pp 2a3 amp also sounds fantastic but different it's also triode wired and class A different vintage output transformers. It's about the tubes and everything else in the circuit not to mention the circuit itself. Happy listening!

sound comes out. But if you want to hear proper imaging out of them, your head needs to be in a vise so as to be held always in the right position... The box in the image above this post looks as if its ported. Did you do anything to prevent slap echos inside the box? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thats correct, Just get any old speaker box, say 50 liter give a take 10 liters,,,slap a pice of ply over the front with a W8 + W6 hole cut,,and your-good-to-go. a bit of attaic insulation, actually i need to add some more along the walls, Cut ya a port, any size you wish. Shes goodtogo. The head in one exact spot deal you are refering to pertains to the Tang band 2145 and the smaller brothers in this same design. Its beams. Bass is near identical to the DL wood cone, ,,well I should say close,,,mids are close,l highs are a bit better in the TB2145. But it has a baeming issue,,which I could never accept. These DL's have zero beaming. Nada These DL's are basically the Legendary Coral Beta 8's reborn. Like the old Phoenix in the Fire resurrection. The DIYers will never accept my dual things. While others might hate my speakers, I love them. Truly a Frankenstein. \ Carlson(the famous YT tech master) in his lab, might test and find they are loaded with breakups, distortions, colorations, all fatigue-ing, no fidelity.

It's about the tubes ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When you say about the tubes,,,d o you mean rolling might add a nuance or...take away from the sound?? My tech here Richard, mentioned the Mesh plates I;m interested in, might not make, in fact **most likely will not..* make much gains. Have you tried other 2A3's.? He has a perfect set of NOS RCA's, But i'm opting for the FUll Music Mesh as my next tube. I;ve seen some very pricey Carbon plates, Titanium plates many others. Pricey, so I want to make my 1st roll of the dice, count. IF the resistors are in fact carbon, right off swapping to Takman Rey metal will make a nice gain. Carbon are great for jazz fans that love their music real smoothhhh. carbons do just that. Clip off the peaks in fq's. Flatens out the sound. Its intreguing,,for about a few days....

@jond 

You had that el 34 for quite a while so I know how much  listening enjoyment it must've brought you.  Your current 2A3 push pull amplifier has to be quite special to have  drawn  you away.😊

Charles 

@charles1dad Lets just say when I took my EL34 amp in for repairs the guys at Deja Vu knew just what they were doing loaning me this amp. 😉 Here is a gratuitous pic of it 😎

 

 

 

@jond 

Lovely! Thanks for sharing. No doubt the Deja Vu proprietors know their customers tastes/desires very well. I bet this amplifier sounds fantastic!

Charles 

Had hoped to upload YET another video.

Miles Davis Kind of Blue.

DAC has mositure issues, we live 10 ft below sealevel. When the conditions are **right** cool./cold, moisture pouring in from the Gulf, DAC gets cranky, the chips are damp.

I now have a paper bad over the vent holes at top, this will keep heat in the unit and keep chips nice N dry.

So no upload tonight.

Let me say, the 88s did not present Miles Davis like this Yaqin.

 

For me the KT series does not even exist.

So this year, I’ve dumped 2 component models,, xover/low sens speakers and KT series tubes. (yes will retube the Defy with EHKT88's, museum  piece)

heee hawwww

Not interested any longer in the 845 design.

While you are at it, why don’t you make a video playing Keith Don’t Go or Peel Me a Grape?

 

Jokes aside, narrating a slow motion train wreck is nerve wracking to witness.

Curious as to why Mr Jadis did not come up with a  300B PP and also a  2A3 PP design???
*IFFF* thats  a big IF, FR  interest ever does get steam going in its train engine,,, you might also see interest begin flowing into lower power PP designs like the 300B and 2A3.

But as we know

1) general interest in all things audiophile are not as strong as they were 10, 20 years ago.

The new commers have all this digital  gadgets and head phones.

2) you can find so many offerings on the used market, which cuts into new sales, thus new designs can't get the funding. 

 

3) xover speakers just seem to  facinate and dazzle both old and  young audiophiles.

Guess this has to do with the typical american ego trippin on power. 

 

I'm doing all I can to push the lower power amp agenda ,  as the superior musical soundstage when paired with the right speaker.

Hopefully Mr Jadis is reading my post and  will at least ponder is the company should slow down on  big power amp offerings. And start designing amplifiers that offer finesse and fidelity, such as the 2A3 PP design.

I think china's manufacturers  have the leading edge over EU and USA companies and this trend will continue.

And you know it. 

My amp, and speakers ,  Made In China.

can you believe it. China beat out the worlds best amplifier, Jadis. (Both techs here  , just loved to trash the Defy all the time...) 

A tube made all the difference. 

 

Thank you Charles! And @mozartfan I have to say I've never heard about overly moist Dac chips until this thread. So thank you for that if nothing else.

Oh My! You’ve had a Chinese made, sub $1,000 push-pull 2a3 amplifier for less than 72 hours and you just proclaimed it what? Better than anything the US or EU can muster? You just don’t know what you are talking about. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing what you are talking about, there absolutely is something wrong with your proclamations. The wet chip syndrome has nasty side effects.

 

 

I don't know anyone who thinks Jadis is the worlds greatest amplifier though I'm sure there are some. One thing I've learned in audio is there's always something better sounding you just haven't heard it yet. It leaves you with a certain amount of gratitude for the sound you have and humble for knowing it can be bettered. Well most of us at least.

Why are you supporting China's economy? I don't get it. I can understand an iPhone only.