Separate DAC or continue using the Oppo UDP-205
SABRE 9038, A dac story. I had 3 DAC's with 90X8 chips but the 205 is the best. Testing with roon is discovered that the USB connection was the best sound and can handle the highest bitrate and MQA. I used Roon ROCK on intel nuc and connected the usb to the 205, wow that sounds good. Then i tested a Raspberry PI4 with vitos, even better sound. Finally i went for a sotm sms-200 neo (not the ultra). Again better sound. My last upgrade was an sbooster LPS for the sotm. Audioquest cables for connections. You're deaf if you don't hear a difference. Question : When will these upgrades stop ? Or will i eventually sell everything and buy a 10000$ DAC ? Am i on a quest for the perfect sound ? |
Here is what I know about Digital as heard in my own system: The ModWright OPPO 205 sound MUCH worse than a Wadia 781i. I had hoped to replace the Wadia to reduce the number of components in my system but CD's and SACD"s sound so much better on the Wadia even with top-notch NOS tubes in the Oppo/ModWright. The Luxman D-06 fed by A Small Green Computer Server with 10TB SSD's, into a SONORE Optical Rendu SE sounds obviously better than the Wadia. When the Luxman was fed by a MacBook Pro, it sounded about the same as the Wadia. The Luxman D-06 has better micro dynamics than the DCS Debussy, but is not fatiguing. The Debussy sounded too "smoothed over." The Schitt "Yiggy" is a good dac, but not as good as the Luxman.. A used Luxman is $2500. The SGC server and the Sonore Optical Rendu Signature are a fabulous combination. The total cost with all available upgrades was about $9000 with 10 TB SSD. They have many less expensive options. I do not know if Aurender, Innous or Antipodes sound better, but this was a massive improvement over my MacBook Pro. |
Hello, I have rolled in a Matsushita 5AR4, (waiting on a Mullard 5AR4) and 2 Mullard 6922 gold pins. It sounds absolutely amazing. And the workmanship on the 205 looks great. Where the 205 seemed a little harsh sounding before the mod ,with my Martin Logan Theos, that is all gone now. It sounds smooth, and the harshness is gone. I think it was a great move, Couldn't be happier. Thanks |
OK, So I went with the OPPO Modwright. I never even opened the Cambridge. I just sent it back. Used that money towards the Mod. I will get the UDP-205 Modwright back by Saturday. Of course I will let all of you know what I think. I have read all the reviews and they seem to be extremely positive. Once again, Thanks for all the suggestions. Andy |
Many of you have suggested a streamer. I have decided on a Cambridge Audio CXN (V2) Once I get it, and get it all set up, I will report back. It seems to get nice reviews and also has a built in dac. I will see how this sounds. I can always by pass the internal dac on the Cambridge, and go through the Oppo. And if I want to play around further, I can always get a seperate dac. |
Loganfan - I can't speak for the very latest DAC's, but I recently added a Bel Canto iDac3 to my system and run both a Sony SCD2000es SACD/CD player and an Oppo 105 through it using identical spdif inputs. I found the sound of CD's only very slightly better than the Oppo through the Bel Canto, while it was much better than via the Sony. All inputs were volume matched. Accordingly, I suspect you would find the gain (if any) from the separate DAC very very modest vs the Oppo. |
Sonos is a handy house distribution utility, but as others have said, they don't have a top notch DAC on board. I use stand alone DACs with unprocessed digital input from the Sonos for better sound. Having said that, the Oppo has a very good rep and you would have to audition some stand alones to see if any of them at a price you are comfortable with would better it. |
Ok I have both the OPPO 205 and The directstream DAC with birdge 2 card which itself is a streamer Sure the 205 has a good DAC but it does not come even close to the DirectStream DAC but that is not the point I want to make . You can make your OPPO 205 as a on line streamer by hard wiring the internet port and using Mconnect yes I can stream through both the Oppo 205 separately and as well as as the Directstream DAC . My Oppo is used mostly for HT functions connected via RCA to Wyred4sound MC7150 the Xlr for audio are feed into Don Sachs pre amp 2 - Hope that helps |
I have all my digital media backed up to a NAS. If I’m not actually playing CDs (my preference), I stream from my NAS (particularly when I travel or am too damn lazy to get up from the couch) and Qobuz (mainly to try new stuff). I would find a dealer that lets you try inew gear out (even for a modest fee). Going by way of the used one market might also get you some great equipment as well (i.e. a DAC). Hope you strike gold! |
Whats the need for a streamer? Yes exactly, I use Tidal and Youtube music app and find its the best way to discover and try new music. Some say streaming will never be as good as physical media, I say it is close enough (with a good streamer.) I enjoy it very much. (I use a TT and CD’s also) There seams to be a new trend developing. Music that is not put on physical media at all, so streaming or purchasing a download is the only option. It probably is where things are headed. Personally I am with gadios and saving for an Innuos Zenith Mk3 streamer. |
Gorm, My preamp has RCA's, that brand is out of my league. I was looking at the MHDT Orchid. In my budget, some nice reviews. However, spending $1200 and not hearing something is silly. I would like at least a week or 2 to listen to it. All my music is in FLAC, Whats the need for the Streamer? To hear songs I don't have yet? Andy |
Hi Loganfan, i would agree with Sonicjoy that probably your Sonos is the weak link - have you considered streaming directly to the Oppo using Roon or from laptop via USB? Having said that I own a UDP-205 and for some was using it as my main transport/audio-video streamer/Roon device. The DAC is quite good and sounds especially good when output via the balanced outputs providing audiophile level sound. If you want to go for a separate DAC you would probably have to go above what you payed for the Oppo unit itself (something from Chord or Mytek might be good options closer to your budget). I recently upgraded to a PS Audio Directstream DAC (with network Bridge) and was extremely pleased. They also offer a 30-day trial (and full value trade-in option for used equipment). Good luck in your audio pursuits! Regards, Gorm |
I agree with Sonicjoy. You need to start streaming with a Bluesound or a Bel Canto streamer to take advantage of hi res music from TIDAL or QOBUZ. You might want to take a look at the Pro-Ject S2 DAC retailing for $400. Here is a review to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3RUADt81x8 |
OK, I did some comparisons. Switching from USB to Optical. Optical being the Sonos, USB is the hard drive straight into the Oppo. I give a slight edge to the USB. But not a crazy difference. I also notice that where I used to put the volume knob, the music is much louder. Thanks for all the help Andy |
The OPPO 205 functions - via USB and wifi - as a full Roon endpoint (rendering and decoding). wifi works flawlessly, if you have a good home wifi system (Linksys Velop, Google mesh, ...). If you replace the SONOS with a Roon Nucleus (or download Roon on a MacBook), you should be able to consolidate all your sources (stored and streamed) - except Spotify - on one very powerful streamer platform (Roon) with excellent user interface and use the OPPO as DAC. If desired, Roon supports multi-room functionality as well. This configuration supports hi rez and MQA as well. I have compared the OPPO extensively to a number of other DACs (Mytek, Cambridge 840, DSpeaker X4) and think it is as good as all these very good DACs. When carefully matched for volume, none of my audiophile friends could tell them apart from each other reliably. |
I think its great that we can post a question and get so many different opinions, but while I read all these answers I have to make a decision. So, I got another Hard drive. I formatted it to work directly with the Oppo, eliminating the Sonos. Now I can just switch the Oppo from Optical to USB and compare the sound. If I hear a difference I will let all of you know, I am sure I will. Then I can see what direction I can go. I really thank all of you for your suggestions, and of course let you know what way I go. As I said in the beginning, I was happy with the sound, but always like to tinker. Especially if it doesn't cost a lot money. By the way, I would never sell the Oppo, It does an incredible job with DVD'S. Andy |
+1 to anwar. A friend brought his laptop over to hear some live recordings he made and to listen to a few songs in his hard drive that I had on cd: that experience totally blew my mind, but Im too old to abandon 3-400 cds You’re not likely going to like my answer, but here it goes My dac/pre is a ~ 4 year old model Audio Alchemy DDP-1 dac/pre with PS-5 outboard power supply. I assumed it was a vg dac, and the resultant music sounded quite good, but, like you, Im thinking ’new dac’, however, I upgraded my amp to a EVS 1200 from Ric Schultz/TweakAudio. It took about 80 hours break in before the spooky magic started happening. I now have ~ 100 hours on it. When the redbook CD recording is good the musicians are in the room comparable to when I had an all tube system; Lector pre and cd player, Rogue M150s with cryoed tubes run fully balanced (had to special order the Lectors to get fully balanced). Best of all, it’s only $2200 for 600wpc idle wattage is a low 57watts meaning I can leave it on 24/7, although it has standby toggles which reduce wattage to 1-2 watts, which one would employ if they turn off their tube pre between sessions. |
Nobody here has mentioned that Oppo is compatible with Roon. In other words you could do without that Sonos altogether. Roon running on your computer can manage your music collection, streaming etc and you could simply use the Oppo as a Roon endpoint (playback device). Regarding the Oppo itself it looks good on paper, good DAC chips, great SNR, very detailed but it fails where all but the most expensive DACs succeed: tonal balance. However, in your case, pairing it with valves probably compensates to a certain extent for the lean, mean, colourless sound signature of the Oppo. I would upgrade the switched mode power supply in the Oppo - it makes a difference (the sound becomes a little bit more refined / rounded and there is more meat on the bones so to speak). Clones Audio and Oppomod do good ones and all you need to replace it is a screwdriver and a bit of courage. Then get Roon. The Oppo is quite sensitive to trash in the mains so just removing the Sonos from your mains ring will give you a small boost in sound / video quality. Keep it simple. The whole point of it all is to enjoy the music and you do. So why fix something that doesn't need fixing? Just make the most out of what you've got. |
I have seen a couple of Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ going for around $1100 here and on US Audio Mart. Retails for $2k new. Fantastic DAC with tons of configurable features, nice OLED screen, 2 headphone amps for 2 SE or 1 balanced and has preamp in/outs to act as a good preamp as well. Finally, the footprint is 1U tall and 1/2 rack wide, so is very easy to integrate/find space for. The Brooklyn was met with rave reviews and IMO is one of the best DACs on the market for the money. The only one I have liked more is my PSAudio Directstream which retails for $6K and can be found second hand for $3-4k. Cheers! |
Our Club, AZAVClub.com held a blind DAC shootout last month and the results of the 20+ people who attended are posted to the site. I too have the 205, and was ready to buy a $2,000 DAC for an upgrade. After listening to the 10 DACs we tested, I have an entirely new plan. Innous. $4,200 new. Looking for a used one. As your first responder warned, twenty answers all different. Good luck. |
The 205 is great for Blu-ray and decent cd but by no means Audiophile quality digital how good is your system ,and your budget ? A lot of factors to figure in . If you have around $3k lampizator has a great new tube dac the Amber-3 lots of trickle down technologies from their pacific flagship . The most detailed natural dac under $6k IMO . I had Luxmans top dac, as well as PS audio $6k dac sold them. And bought the Lampi and comes with a 14 day return . |
If you like the way the OPPO UDP-205 DAC sounds, and you're not looking for a change, I wouldn't recommend trying too hard to better it. Yes, there are people who don't like the way it sounds and so either mod it or would prefer a different DAC. Or prefer the sound of a different DAC more, while still liking the OPPO. But you should figure out that part for yourself by listening to some things. For connecting a USB hard disk directly, it needs to be FAT, FAT32, exFAT, or NTFS. You can check what format your hard disk is in by using the Disk Utility application on your Mac. Alternatively, if you have network connectivity for the UDP-205, you could ask your Mac to export the hard disk as a file share. Or consider using a Dante network connection to send optical over Ethernet if you think the Sonos Connect digital transfer and output isn't working well for you. |
The DAC chip in the Oppo is very good. However the DAC implementation in the Oppo cannot compare to many modern separate DACs. There has been a whole industry built up just to make the Oppo DAC sound better. But you can do far better for your money and have much more flexibility with a separate DAC. As for which DAC, 20 people will recommend 20 different ones. |
I'm not sure how or why you're using the sonos instead of connecting the hard drive to the oppo and connecting the oppo to the primaluna. I haven't heard the DAC in the 205, but have a 203 and 105D and used to have their headphone amp/dac. They have pretty good DACs. To me they are more "digital" sounding and less detailed than some others. A MHDT Orchid is a little more than your budget, but will sound less digital and will be detailed and neutral. To me, that would be a nice upgrade. It won't make a night and day difference, but will be easier to listen to and more "natural" sounding. I have a W4S DAC 2 and it is my least favorite of all the ones I've owned. Try getting the sonos out of the chain and see how you like the sound. If you still think you might want to upgrade, what do you hope to get from the upgrade? |
You can connect the hard drive directly to Oppo 205 USB3 ports (behind), then use Oppo Media Control app to select and play music files. This method means you don't have to spend at all. Oppo 205 DAC is very good. If you want to play music files up to the maximum rates supported by Oppo 205 DAC (PCM 768k, DSD 512), consider buying/building a streamer without built-in DAC; then connect the streamer to Oppo 205 using a good USB cable. |
Hi Loganfan. I think the Sonos is the weak link in your chain. Oppos are known for their very good DAC’s and are audiophile grade components where as the Sonos Connect is a mass market consumer grade product and are not known for High fidelity sound. "Wyred 4 Sound" sells a modified Sonos Connect that sounds much better than the stock version but there are newer and better "audiophile" products that you should look at. I’m sure you will get many good suggestions here soon. I think you would have to spend more than $1000. on an out board DAC to much improve on the OPPO. Also don’t be afraid to shop used for a DAC. Digital is evolving very rapidly and this is very good for used prices of older gear. I can recommend the Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 Very solid full featured DAC. It’s a few years old now but sold new for $1500. and sells for $500. - $600. used. Several are available currently. Check the reviews. They are up gradable to newer versions as well including current top of the line. Excellent value! http://https//wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/dac-2v2-series Good luck. |
