Sent Back the Pro-ject Turntable: What would be the best option in the $1800 range?

Have you look into Rega P6  I had Rega P3 myself  then I upgraded to Clearaudio Performance DC its a little out of your budget but the Clearaudio Concept is in  MusicDirect has a open box one with MM cartridge 

I had a Project Xpression ll for a few years and found it fine, had a Grado Reference cart.
Recently bought a new Clearaudio with thier top MM cart. It is magniicent. Not sure of US prices but I paid NZ$2775 for table and NZ$1400 for the cart. I think that converts to about US$2000 and $1000.
But I am extremely happy with sound. Next upgrade will be speakers.

+2 on the George Merrill PolyTable with the Jelco 850 arm.

Consider the Well Tempered Simplex MKII. Plays way above its price point.

yes, and theres good deals on ebay too

Another VPI fan picked up a used Scout Aries for under $1K. Still running fine 5 years on.

I have a Project Debut Carbon turntable with an Ortofon Bronze cartridge, love the cartridge, not to impressed with the table.  Doesn’t come close to matching the quality of my Ayon Orion amp and Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand SE speakers. But it will have to do, I’m done spending money on stereos and I’m losing my hearing anyway 😂

This thread went crazy, i can only add this one to the list above. 

Just found this on sale at Audio Advisors  Bryston BLP .5 Turntable With BTP1 Power Supply-Audio Advisor this should be in your price range.

I second the Polytable (with Jelco 850) as an alternative to the GR.

Sounds like the OP’s tastes and sensitivities might be more oriented to the sound of a table with a suspended sub-platter.

I’ve a personal preference for suspended sub-platter designs, personally. Finding that they seem to have the best noise floor and dynamic range, overall, as a type of design.

I highly recommend the Gem Dandy Polytable - designed and manufactured by turntable guru, George Merrill - see www.hifigem.com/polytable.html.  I have owned one and loved it, and now Ihave upgraded to George's Super12. George is great to deal with and he really knows what he is doing from a design standpoint. 

They are very bad belt drive for crazy price like $2000 and can’t compete with Technics GR Direct Drive that OP can buy for $1500 (amazing deal actually).

Schiit is a piece of sh.... t.
A proper phono stage required anyway sooner or later, SoundSmith can offer MM phono stages, JLTi is offering great MM/MC phono stages....

How about the Music Hall 7.3 Music Hall - MMF-7.3 Turntable | Shop Music Direct or this Music Hall - MMF-9.3 Turntable | Shop Music Directboth of these are good belt drive in your price range. HiFi Heaven has a demo 9.3 for under $2,000.00

Klimt: If you live near the Chicago area I have a Schiit Mani in like new condition, I used it for 1 day until my JC3+ was delivered.you can have the Schiit Mani for $50.00 just come and pick it up.

Hey,

Do I need to get a Schiit Mani Phono Preamp for MC and MM Cartridges?

Buy it direct from Schiits. It will save you money direct from them in stead of Amazon. I did and it came nicely packed and safe.

https://www.schiit.com/products/mani

@chakster , Good timing ... 

While I share your admiration for those 3 cartridges, and I own them all

You own them all ? You like them @lewm ?
Thousands people own them and use them too, and feedbacks all over the internet, except maybe SONY XL-50 (a very nice cartridge).

Would be nice to read your comment about SONY XL-50 MM is you have it.

Grace is probably the most popular, honestly i have never seen a bad sample of Grace, suspension always fine, i owned F-9E, F-9U, F-9F, various F14 models too and so on ... up to LEVEL II. As you know i like Grace and collect them. If you think the suspension is dried out a bit, then maybe a compliance is a bit lower now, but originally it is very high compliance. But i never seen a softened suspension on any Grace samples out of many samples. And you’re the one who use SoundSmith Grace, so there is a person who even produce NEW styli for Grace. Just look HERE> Brand new styli (not a retip of the old one) available from SoundSmith and he made them. One of the reason i can recommend Grace for a novice.

Personally i'm ready to buy as many original Grace styli as i can before they are gone. It was such a great company and they gave their customers so many options (so many different styli/cantilevers, we discussed it before). 

Old Pickering is also extremely popular cartridges, on another forum anyone can find a "fan club" of Pickering/Stanton where people share knowledge. Why i never seen any sample with bad suspension? I think the design is just right, so using them in 21st century is not a problem. About service: Expert Stylus & Cartridge Co in UK specialized in Stanton/Pickering repair, their stylus Paratrace is the closest to Stereohedron. Anyone can contact them by email ( info at expertstylus.co.uk ), my communication with them was very nice. I think our friend @nandric retipped some of his best LOMC with them.

There is no risk to invest in cartridges if you know where to buy them, or your formula can be applied to anything vintage (tubes, turntables, speakers). Why people buying vintage gear in 21st century ? Because in many cases it’s better and often cheaper. And it’s cool.

P.S. New MM cartridges like Nagaoka and AT are always in the shops, they can wait... nothing special

Just checked Music Directs price.
CLEARAUDIO - Concept Black Turntable with Concept Tonearm (MM Cartridge) Turntables Price $1,800.00
$1600 for the table and arm only.
They also have a 60 day return policy.

It would be only fair to point out to kimt that all 3 cartridges on your list, Chakster, would be at least 30 or more years old at this point in time.  To find an NOS one would be serendipitous for sure, but also one would be taking a chance on the condition of the suspension of such a cartridge, which would be expected to have deteriorated, even if NOS. In fact, it's certain that any sample of any of those 3 cartridges will have "changed" sonically since the date of its manufacture. This change could be OK or more likely not OK.  While I share your admiration for those 3 cartridges, and I own them all, I suspect there are many modern cartridges, recently manufactured, and in the same price range, which would be less risky to invest in.  For examples: Nagaoka, Audio Technica, etc.

I'm a little surprised that no one mentions Clearaudio.  I'm guessing the majority dislike belt drive.  I bought a Champion Level Two with the Unify carbon fiber tonearm in 2002 and I still love it.  Currently using a Benz Micro Wood SL.  But this is beside the OP's point.  Clearaudio's entry level with their house mm or mc cartridges review very well.  What do you think?

Can anyone recommend a cartridge that pairs well with the SL-1200GR? It needs to be $450 or less.

@kimt

Pickering XSV-3500 and Stanton 881 for Technics tonearm are great, these models are withing your price range.

Grace F-9 is another killer MM within your price range for Technics tonearm.

SONY XL-50 with Boron Pipe cantilever is also great.  

@klimt You better come back and let us all know how it goes!

+1 Mani ... I'm keeping mine ... Used is a good option.
 @klimt, you should be good with Crutchfield.

Thanks noromance!

Too late! I already sent the Pro-Ject back.

hmmmm...

Thanks for the advice!

Do I need to get a Schiit Mani Phono Preamp for MC and MM Cartridges?

IIRC, you have an old receiver. Yes, you should get the Mani for now. The phono input in the receiver will not do justice to the new table. Speaking of which, at the very start, I recommended you get the Mani before dumping the Pro-Ject. 

Probably okay. But how do you know it didn't fall causing a possible alignment issue, or been out on demo(s)?  I'd be inclined to buy it new.

Hey,

Do I need to get a Schiit Mani Phono Preamp for MC and MM Cartridges?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P8WYX6N/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A2MQBWZ25GS6JU&psc=1

Thanks!

Can anyone think of any drawbacks from buying a ’scratch and dent’ or ’open box’ TT?

It still comes with a full factory warranty.

To buy today on Amazon with free returns:
Bright and clear - AT VM540ML (stretch to the 740 or 760)
Musical all rounder - Ortofon MC3Turbo
More body, a little warmer and musical - Nagaoka MP300 (stretch to the 500)
Be warned. All of these require 20 hours to even start sounding their best so don't jump to conclusions.

I'm thinking about buying a SL-1200GR  'scratch and dent' from Crutchfield for $1,534.24 which will leave about $450 for a cartridge.

Crutchfield has a cheap $10 restocking fee which will allow me to audition the TT  with my system. Also, they have a generous 60 day return policy So I can always send it back if I don't like it.

Can anyone recommend a cartridge that pairs well with the SL-1200GR? It needs to be $450 or less.

And again thanks everyone for your help!

VPI SCOUTMASTER. 1800 BUCKS. 

You'll love the SL-1200GR, my buddy has one with these isolation feet, https://www.mnpctech.com/collections/turntable-lsolation-feet

@chakster, the Luxman PD-444 … Classic Lines ...

Perhaps your needs can be best met in the used market: mine were. I bought a very, very nice VPI HW-19 Mk 2 for $500 from a local audiophile: in fact, it was cosmetically and functionally perfect. Of course, it did not have a tonearm or cartridge but the turntable itself will last many years and it yields more than satisfactory performance. The HW-19 series can be easily upgraded with gratifying results. There are many other options too. Check in the classified section of this forum and elsewhere and check archived reviews.

I’m partial to the Thorens TD-309 which has won many awards. I have an entry TD203 w/ Ortofon 2m Blue that impresses me, so the TD 309 would be my next move if, that is if I didn’t enjoy the 203 so much.

https://www.thorens.com/en/thorens®-td-309.html

https://theaudiophileman.com/td309/

Or the newly released TD1600, a modern reissue of the TD160

https://www.thorens.com/en/thorens®-td-1600-en.html

The SP 10 is just expensive beautifully made junk.

SP-10 was made in 1969, I am talking about SP-10 mkII from the mid 70’s and SP-10 MKIII as the reference Technics standard in the 80’s and until now unbeatable. All 3 turntables are different, i would not mention first SP-10 at all, but SP-10 mk2 and mk3 are superb Direct Drive turntables. Anyway they are not affordable for the OP. With his budget i would recommend only SP-20 (very rare model) from the whole SP series. If i will ever buy Technics again it will be SP-10 mkIII or new SP-10R.

Get yourself an Techdas Air Force 1 Improved. Now that is a real turntable. Of course if you can’t afford it then get a SOTA Cosmos Vacuum which will get you 95% of the way there at a very reasonable price. Your choice of tonearm. I recommend the SAT arm or you could find an old Syrinx PU 3 and get 95% of the way there.

I am not looking for turntable, at the moment i have two Victor TT-101, two Luxman PD-444 and one Denon DP-80. I think i’m done with turntables.

I am not crazy to buy SAT tonearm or anything at that price, my collection of tonearms is pretty big at the moment. Some of the best vintage tonearms are here, so i’m fine.

Techdas turntable and related ugly looking modern audio gear makes me sick (sorry). Maybe it’s a good turntable, i have no idea, this design is not acceptable for me even for free.

I posted many times that personally i’m tired of SL1200 whatever, but it is only because i have SL1210 mk2 since the mid 90’s. But reading audiogon i quickly realized that some people never ever touched Technics SL1200 mk2 and any next model including modern G, GAE or GR.

Comparing Direct Drive like SL1200G to belt drive turntable is a joke! It is really apples and oranges. My advice to try new Technics and make a comments after some experience with those decks. This is really next level of turntables compared to belt drive toys like ProJect and many more expensive turntables too.

My favorite turntable is Luxman PD-444

That big magnetic menace under the platter will scramble the coils of any cartridge.

Bullshits.

To the OP, if indeed the SL1500 has the very same coreless motor as does the SL1200, and if the $ are very important to you, then go for the SL1500.  Thanks to Rego for the cogent information, and I apologize for misinforming you that the SL1500 lacks the coreless motor, albeit, I still think the SL1200 will be better sonically, overall.

Mijo, Please stop dispensing your beliefs and opinions as fact.  The AR XA is a primitive effort, a piece of junk by modern standards, although a standard bearer for its time (which was 60 years ago).  It bears no comparison to any of the new crop of Technics DD turntables, IN MY OPINION.  It doesn't hold a candle even to my 40-year-old Denon DP80.

Also consider Schiit Sol brand new at $699 for a belt drive.
Read the reviews.

Go for a second hand Thorens TD125 Mk2 or a second hand Linn Sondek LP12

@rego,

I appreciate the correction. Thanks

Auto Lift - Not an auto return @tyray.

" Equipped with an Auto Lifter Function That Allows You to Enjoy Playing                                      Records More Comfortably"
"When the tonearm reaches the end of the record, the Auto Lifter function automatically raises the cartridge"
As per description.

About the fifth turntable I ever purchased was an entry level upscale turntable the Pro-Ject RM 5.1 SE Pro-Ject with the Black Speed Box S 60Hz. A beautiful looking deck. After awhile I noticed a hum and even after making sure the TT was grounded and still there was a humming issue. However I still loved the sound that came out of it.

It was not until after a number of evenings falling asleep with the stylus being played over and over on whatever record I had on it, I opted for the auto return the Technics and Pioneer turntables I already owned.

And this probably will get the turntable purist really pissed off, but one of the reasons the Technics SL-1500C is selling is because of the auto return function that the G, GR and others don’t have.

I like my pro-ject the classic sb.....personally, I would not even buy anything below this from pro-ject. The evo classic looks to be an even better turntable with many improvements, including a new precision machined aluminum sub platter, an evo inverted bearing with four ABEC7 spec ballraces borrowed from their 175 VPO turntable, an improved carbon fiber/aluminum evo tone arm, improved arm bearings, a stiffer suspension, and improved speed box performance, and a ortofon quintet red moving coil cartridge....A crazy good table @ 1700 bucks. Take the red off and put on a quintet bronze or black and I’d venture to say it would be a killer table.

https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/the-classic-evo/

Here’s Fremer's review of the classic sb

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/pro-ject-classic-sb-superpack-turntable-%E2%80%9Cbrains%E2%80%9...

A Positive feedback review of the sb

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/pro-ject-the-classic-sb-turntable/

And CNET (audiophiliac) on the sb....

https://www.cnet.com/news/pro-jects-turntable-makes-you-want-to-get-up-and-dance/

And to think that the Evo classic betters it, wow...and for relatively cheap money, what a great time to be an audiophile I’d say....

The Techdas Air Force 1 is a really nice looking TT.  If someone can show me where I can find it in the OP's $1800 price range, I'd sell my beloved 1200G and buy one in a heartbeat. 

chakster, If the Technics turntables were the last turntables on earth I would sell all my vinyl and commit 100% to digital. Yes, they are beautifully made and that is the trap. They are also cheap and that is the hook. The SP 10 is just expensive beautifully made junk. Get yourself an Techdas Air Force 1 Improved. Now that is a real turntable. Of course if you can't afford it then get a SOTA Cosmos Vacuum which will get you 95% of the way there at a very reasonable price. Your choice of tonearm. I recommend the SAT arm or you could find an old Syrinx PU 3 and get 95% of the way there. 
See Chakster the mistake you are making is that turntables are an art form and the Technics just does not cut it. It is the Toyota of turntables.
No emotion, lifeless, bland. It takes the joy out of spinning vinyl. In short, YUK. 

That big magnetic menace under the platter will scramble the coils of any cartridge.

It never happens, how about Technics SP10 mk II and mk III or SP10R with motor under the platter, anyone complains? Never heard about it.

Direct Drive turntables sound awful and the cheep ones are even worse.

Very funny, it ain’t cheap, and made better than $10k belt drives.

The Technics arm tube rings like a bell. Just turn up the volume and tap it with a pencil.

Which Technics armtube? Do you mean an old SL1200 mk2 discontinued many years ago? New tonearm on $1700 GR is magnesium and does not ring, it’s actually a completely different turntables compared to old $400 SL1200mk2 with $100 Arm.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Ever tried Titanium Technics EPA-100 or Boron EPA-100 mk2 tonearms ? The best arms ever made, Van Den Hul is using EPA-500 or EPA-100 to test his cartridges.  

noromance, an old $100 cartridge in an AR table would sound better than any cartridge in a GR. That big magnetic menace under the platter will scramble the coils of any cartridge. Direct Drive turntables sound awful and the cheep ones are even worse. The Technics arm tube rings like a bell. Just turn up the volume and tap it with a pencil. You might as well hang it in a church. 

Acoustic Signature Primus.