That's what I would do, have some solid low profile stands made, for some of the gear anyway. Some like the mono amps might be better on Pods on the floor. Usually with transformers in the back the front is light and so a Pod under each rear corner plus one in front balances nicely. This can have the effect of the component appearing to float just above the floor.
Also everybody likes to put things facing forward, when really they don't have to be. Like my sub amps, they are off to the left and facing outwards. They could also be at an angle. Turning things like this can make interconnects reach a lot better. This all falls under the heading of sounds vs looks. I can do woodworking but for now no time, and can only wish I had a guy able to make because I know what I want just no time to make it.
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@millercarbon Gotcha. Points taken. Going to try things out without any furniture first, see how they move around. Stay low, stay clear of the center, if possible. That's why I put in three dedicated lines on that front wall, alone. Flexibility. May not need them all.
I've had nice exchanges with the folks at Townshend. That's helpful, too, because as you say, it takes the pressure off the budget for the furniture side. I'm reaching out to a local woodworker (retired from being a middle school teacher) to make something nice, once I decide. And the pods can integrate there.
Good stuff. Thanks again. |
Are you saying that one long low rack is not a good way to go? I
definitely am going front and center, but are you saying do two low
racks? I'm saying it is all trade offs, everywhere, all the time. Everyone has their own particular individual situation in terms of what they have now, what they plan on doing, how they want it to look, what they are willing to deal with in terms of convenience, and more. Like 30 years ago when I was, ahem, 30 years younger having my turntable on the floor, having to get down on the floor to do everything, it was no big deal. I ran my Basis on the floor for a year or more while I tested and figured things out. Now today it would be a total non-starter. I built my rack the height that it is for ergonomics as much as sound. Compromise. Trade off. Everywhere. Anything in the center, anything at all, it will reflect and this will degrade imaging. It is real easy to test this, as easy as buy one sheet of Owens Corning 703, cut it up and start moving it around. Not exactly the same as moving components but real close and a lot easier. I did all kinds of stuff like this way back when I was all young and spry and having to figure it all out because hardly any info out there back then. There's a very old photo from when my system was on a center rack. Even back then the imaging was so good I had a guy one time peek under the blanket, absolutely convinced there had to be a speaker behind it! https://www.theanalogdept.com/c_miller.htm That blanket is a clue, you can ameliorate reflections with absorbers all kinds of different ways. That is why after trying a bunch of things I made my rack with round columns and a curved front and corners. No right angles. Not facing forwards anyway. Avoid racks with big square flat faces. But don't worry too much about how good the rack is at vibration control, because 90+% of that comes from Pods directly under each component. Or under the whole rack. Or both. These tend to take the rack out of the equation, except for the way it reflects sound. Use all that to creatively select one that suits you and your situation. That's the way I approach it. Like, one creative solution, two low racks left and right near the front wall. Components go on those. This leaves the most significant reflection zone in the center clear. Put your preamp on Pods on the floor, feeding amps on the floor on Pods. If the preamp is all remote control you hardly need to touch it anyway. But there are so many odd variables this might not work at all. Sometimes everything will reach with 1m, other times inputs and outputs are opposite ends too far apart. You just never know. That is why I give general info and hopefully enough you can figure it out from there. |
Thanks for the further comments! My soapstone pieces are big -- one is 63" x 33" the other piece is 43" x 22" -- lots to work with.
Steven, your website is asking for a password. Hope you get it fully public-facing soon! |
Cool ! best wishes for your venture Steven
OP nothing wrong w soapstone IF you are using some sort of ancillary isolation. Frankly you could use green glue to accomplish that… |
Where are you located? I'm in the Pacific Northwest. I'm starting up my custom audio furniture business. Will likely launch my website in about a month. Just getting my CNC up and running, but the intent is total one-off custom cabinets and stands for audio equipment. Design features are key and my products will be ideal for second systems in living rooms, but the materials will meet needs of discerning audiophiles who want custom stands in their listening rooms. Company name is Madrone Timber Woodworks. www.madronetimbre.com. Email is steven@madronetimbre.com. |
One option for the amp platforms is to go to your local granite countertop company - the one that actually has the cutting and fabrication equipment - and ask them for the price of a couple pieces of 20" x 20" (or however big you want them) of countertop material with finished edges. They have scrap pieces laying around and hopefully they would charge a reasonable price for them.
You could then get cones for the bottom surface if you want (they are pretty cheap on Amazon) and you could epoxy them on. This would be a solid attractive solution. |
Some further reactions -- the Kohl's piece is nice, but I am really trying to get as low to the floor as possible. I'm really wanting to keep that soundstage as empty as possible. (FWIW, I had them wire a dedicated line along the side wall for a future move, but for now, I'm going to set all up along the front wall.)
Solidsteel looks nice -- have to check with wife about the look of it. Also -- very different line of pricing. I need to see if MDF is how I want to go. There is something very appealing about getting nice looking wood and then isolating with Townshend or something similar.
QUESTION: I have a leftover piece of soapstone used for kitchen counter, way back. What do folks think about soapstone for either (a) amp platform or (b) low-lying audio rack?
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I've always been a fan aesthetically of Maple Shade. Check their stuff out if you haven't.
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You can’t go wrong with this, Ink and Ivy sideboard... https://m.kohls.com/product/prd-3287623/inkivy-zen-sideboard-storage-cabinet.jspYes, it is unconventional, however, it works very well for audio equipment. It is very deep, 18 inches, it has a sturdy open lower shelf for amps, two smooth sliding doors for sources (two shelves) and a thick top for a turntable. It is built like a tank. I love mine, plus the price was a lot cheaper than some other dedicated audio furniture options. You can also store lp’s very easily in this if so desired. It is on average $500, however, it is currently sold out every where. |
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@miller Fantastic response. So helpful. Might just start with pods under amps. One question. But now I notice you also mentioned a low rack for components between the amps. This sounds a lot like what I have. The lower you keep things the better in terms of reflections. Also it is good to break things up by having them staggered in terms of distance. A wide flat rack is not so good in this regard. I actually played around with stuff like this a long time ago. Even fairly small stuff if it is flat it reflects enough to hear. Not big time, not very much at all in fact, but enough you can hear it.
Are you saying that one long low rack is not a good way to go? I definitely am going front and center, but are you saying do two low racks? |
Looks, function and ultimate sound are a delicate, personal balance.
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I was thinking something like first off you could put the amps directly on Pods without even a short rack. But depending on what your standard is for looks you could spend a lot and have something that looks good but not be anywhere near the sound quality improvement of Pods. That is where the cheap rack with Pods comes from. I would use 3 per amp by the way not 4.
I've used them directly under components and also under racks. Directly under a component is a bigger effect. So that is what I would do for the mono-blocks. Personally I would skip the rack altogether and put the amps right on the Pods. They go by the way directly under the chassis, not under the feet. This both helps keep a low profile and also works better because the Pods are in contact with the chassis not the feet. Also makes it easier to use 3 vs 4. Totally the way to go.
Under a rack, I first put my turntable on Pods, then later got some of the really big ones to float the whole rack. This works great but is something to think about because it is after all equipment you handle. Speakers on Podiums only move when you touch them, which is not often. Racks however you touch that stuff all the time. The slightest touch and the whole rack moves. It is not anything to worry about, totally stable, but odd beyond words to see and so I mention it! My rack is so massive, at least 750 lbs, it sways crazy slow at about 1Hz. Maybe less. Anyway it definitely does work that way.
Whether it is more cost-effective to do the whole rack or individual components, hard to say. What I can say for sure, putting them under a component is a lot easier than a whole rack! I would lean component for that reason alone.
I was focused on the mono amps and would totally recommend 3 Pods under each, and skip the rack. But now I notice you also mentioned a low rack for components between the amps. This sounds a lot like what I have. The lower you keep things the better in terms of reflections. Also it is good to break things up by having them staggered in terms of distance. A wide flat rack is not so good in this regard. I actually played around with stuff like this a long time ago. Even fairly small stuff if it is flat it reflects enough to hear. Not big time, not very much at all in fact, but enough you can hear it. I had a guy over one time he noticed the imaging not as good on one side as the other, we figured out it was an LP leaned up for show. Moved it, better. One LP.
Not big, not gonna kill you, but there. Moving everything off to the side comes at a cost as well. Wire quality is huge. We have only so much money. For sure you move your gear to one side you will be afraid to spend what it costs for wire, you will cut corners on that, and this will result in worse sound than if you left the gear in the middle bought the better wire and lived with the reflections. Take it to the bank. Put your stuff off to the side if you must for looks. But don't kid yourself that it sounds better. It won't.
That said, looks matter. Not everyone wants the kind of mess I have, no matter how good it sounds. I am sick, and probably should be committed. But everyone knows that already.
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just keep in mind that even tho the LP is stuck in what seems a perpetual skip… “Our Brand “ ! mode, you have a ton of options…some of us hear them all the time in our wanderings…. HRS, SRA, CORE, Box, Symposium, some guy named Max, Timbernation, etc……so we have an inkling about the wide scope of performance out there…. |
@smrex13 I'm surfing the site now. It looks really great! Thanks a lot. |
Take a look at Timbernation.com. He makes maple racks. Just simple, solid construction. He has many styles and sizes, and he can do custom sizes as well. I have two of his racks, and they have been excellent for my needs. And his prices are very reasonable. |
@ebm I will. Thank you!
@mitch2 What a gorgeous setup. This is very inspiring! |
If quality, stability, functionality, and damping are important then Sound Anchor can make whatever you need. Their heavy steel racks, stands, and platforms are bullet proof tough, internally damped with a sand mixture, and come with threaded bottoms so you can easily use their own spikes or casters, or your choice of footer, spring, etc. If you look about halfway through the pictures on my system page, you will see a monoblock on a SRA platform that is sitting on a spiked SA stand that I repurposed from a speaker stand. If you look closer to the beginning of the photos, you will see a SA equipment rack that has a wood top platform and wood shelves I had from a former project. Those are also SA stands under my main speakers that I have supported by springs. I have been very satisfied with their work. |
Look at Symposium Acoustics Ultra amp stands though not cheap sound much better than wood. |
@miller -- thanks for the suggestion. I know you like their podiums for speakers, too. I’m not ready to do that, yet -- want to get my gear settled.
But to be clear about what you think would be optimal -- you’re saying a set of pods under both an equipment rack or under each piece of equipment? Also the mono block stands? At $100/pod I’m missing something, because it doesn't seem cost-effective. (I admit I'm confused so please be nice!) |
Great suggestions. Had not thought of locking wheels.
Saving this thread as PDF for my reference.
More suggestions welcome.
Timbernation is on my short list of local guy can't do it.
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Honestly, Townshend Pods are so good I would focus above all on finding the rack with the looks you want, and rely on Pods for sound quality. Since nobody makes a rack that can compete with Pods on a price/sound quality basis, but plenty make racks that look real good for the money, this will also be the most cost-effective way to go.
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solid maple
HRS Nimbus couplers both sides, amp and floor. Walnut, sounds different…. |
Make sure you have enough depth, yet short the shelves in relationship to the support posts, which will help relieve connector stress and look a lot better, and scalloping those rear shelves will will assist in cable management. Make shelves a minimum of 19” wide. I prefer adjustable shelves to a accommodate gear changes and additions. Make sure to leave enough space for heat dissipation, especially above. While spikes and springs have their proponents, I prefer locking wheels Wheels will relieve torque stress on the rack and make changes much easier.
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Thanks for the advice! No way I'm doing this myself. Too much going on. But I'd like to toss the job to a really good local craftsperson. |
Maple is very inexpensive as wood goes. It is a bit of a PITA to work with. It is hard and the grain can be squirrelly. Any local cabinet maker can make you maple slabs which you can put feet on and use as amplifier stands. You can make an equipment rack by taking maple ( or any other wood. I like Cherry) slabs drilling a 1/2" hole in each corner. Then using 1/2" threaded rod and pvc pipe (as spacers) with the associated nuts and washers stack the slabs. Put adjustable feet on the bottom and you are good to go. You are not using a turntable so there is no reason to spring load anything. If I were to make it a two level "low boy" rack in 8/4 maple finished in catalyzed lacquer would cost you in and around $400 complete. I am not for hire just using myself as an example. |
Two pieces of mdf or maple or combination of each. Use springs between the wood platforms. If you need leveling, add adjustable spikes under the bottom platform. |
Nothing weighs very much. Light line stage preamp, DAC, streamer. Amps about 31 lb each but they'd go on platforms. |
Size and Weight? My surround/stand can support up to 125 lbs each, 3 optional heights https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9703You can use any locally made top in lieu of the glass I have another solution for larger, very heavy amps, I would need to confirm component availability if needed. |
