I am wondering whether a power conditioner or regenerator would make a difference in my system, and if so what would you recommend in the "value" price category. I have no idea if my power is "clean" or "dirty". What I can say is I live in SoCal, my provider is SDG&E. I have rooftop solar, panels made by Sunpower (with micro-inverters). I am connected to the grid. The components I have "plugged-in" are as follows: Turntable power supply: Linn Lingo II Phono preamp: PS Audio Stellar Phono Integrated Amp: Primaluna Dialogue Premium Integrated CD Player: Arcam CD23 Streamer: Metrum Ambre DAC: Metrum Onyx
Might. Or might not. Everyone's experience is different dependant on local wiring, proximity to the power co. transformer and neighborhood noise profile. Only YOU can hear what it does for you. The best you'll get here is what's best in totally different conditions. Good luck with that.
An Isotek Aquarius made a big difference for the better in the sound from my system (posted). I was very surprised having been, until recently, skeptical about power cord and power conditioner benefits. The improvement was not subtle.
Music Direct has a great money back return policy. Order one (or another brand you prefer based on reviews or whatever) from them and give it a go. As @fuzztone said, only you can hear what it does (or doesn't do!) for you.
I just put a PS Audio power conditioner in my system and it completely transformed my sound in a way I truly wasn't expecting. I see you already own their phono preamp so you must be somewhat familiar w/ their products.
I did quite a lot of research before I bought mine so I could make sure I was spending the bucks wisely. I'm much more about doing things correctly the first time, so I don't have to spend yet more bucks on an upgrade.
As part of my research I explored different companies approaches to the power conditioning issue, and determined that PS Audio's power regeneration is a very solid approach that consistently yields outstanding results, so say tons of reviews. Apparently the only exception is if you have a certain type of esoteric amp. I'm using a high end integrated A/V receiver in my home theater system which doubles as my two channel audio as well. I was sort of floored when I put it in my system.
It was truly like everything coalesced.I guess I had been on the periphery of really good sound all along, but this thing crystallized everything. It took away the hard edges in a way I didn't think possible, brought out a super dark background for the music to come thru, and gave my soundstage a three dimensionality I personally had never experienced. I would venture to say, from the looks of the equipment you've chosen that the effect would be similar for you.
One more thing. I encourage you to explore the Multiwave feature. I, personally, believe that would be sort of a reason in itself to go with PS Audio above other manufacturers.
I chose the P15 but that's b/c I didn't want to have to upgrade. My understanding is that the P3 will get you pretty much the same degree of improvement in sound, but with less power and fewer features. They have both a generous trade in program, and also a 30 day return policy. How could you go wrong?
Most audiophiles have found that many of the power conditioners/surge suppressors on the market do a great job on source components and preamps but limit the dynamics and bass impact on power amps (and integrateds) and subwoofers. This is the result of dynamic current limiting due to series filtering/surge components (inductors, etc.). The solution is to incorporate power factor correction (energy reserve), but doing so increases cost considerably. As one example, the Audioquest Niagra 3000 costs $3000.
Most audiophiles on a budget opt to plug amps and subs directly into the wall outlet and use a power conditioner for everything else. The Furman PST-8 at less then $200 is a popular unit.
Whichever way you go, make sure you purchase with no-cost return privileges. Good luck in your search.
The Telos Quantum Resonator Conditioner is not in a "value price category" but does an incredible job in opening up a system. It incorporates 6 Dueland capacitors and automatically runs a
demagnetization process every 15 minutes, ensuring that
'sound-destroying' magnetic fields are constantly being controlled. Major improvement over my previous Shunyata. Unfortunately it approaches 20K.
If you size the ps audio regenerator right it will improve your amps too. Conditioners are notorious for limiting amp sq and if you get too small of a regenerator you will be doing the same thing. Ps audio had an in-home trial policy so instead of guessing or asking for somebody’s opinion, get 1 and listen to it and buy it if you think it works in your system
I received my P20 in May 2020. When I plugged most of my components into it, the sound was good but I had a hard time hearing the difference from when everything was plugged directly into the wall. The P20 was plugged into a dedicated 20amp line using a Shunyata Sigma NR 6' 20 amp power cable.
Then recently, I watched a video on Jay's Audio Lab's YouTube channel where he compared the sound, using the P20 with the Shunyata Denali 6000 and reading a PS Audio forum post where a user claimed unplugging everything from his P20 and into the wall outlets made his amps come alive. I then unplugged everything from my P20 and plugged everything into my wall outlets. The sound had more detail with more dynamics. The change wasn't dramatic but it was noticeable enough that it prompted me to sell my P20.
I'm now plugging my components directly into the wall. I have 7 dedicated 20 amp lines running from my home theater to a dedicated service panel with a copper bus bar, using 10 gauge shielded wiring with Furutech GTX outlets so my power situation was pretty good before my P20.
However many people do report that the P20 dramatically changes their system for the better. Possibly theP20is better suited for systems without dedicated lines and run appliances from the same panel while they use their system.
Good luck with your decision.
My system: Room is 21'L x 14'w x 12'h with 14'wx12'h floor to ceiling velvet drapes on the front wall, 10'x7' velvet drapes on the right wall and 9'x7' wall carpeting on the left wall. 4 Goldenear Triton Ones FR, FL, LS, RS Each Triton has 4 IsoAcoustics GAIAII Isolators that are on top of a 3" thick ButcherBlockAcoustics Maple Audio Platform. Goldenear Supercenter Reference Goldenear Invisa HTR-7000 In-ceiling speakers RFH, LFH, RRH, LRH Parasound JC5 FR, FL channels 2 Parasound A51 All other channels Marantz AV8805 Preamp Processor Oppo 203 LGOLED77CX Audioquest William Tell Zero Full Range Speaker Cables 8' each to FR, FL, C Audioquest Type 5SpeakerCable to all other channels except for the LS that uses Amazon speaker cable. DH Labs Silver Sonic HDMI cables for Oppo 203 and LG Audioquest Water XLR cables from Marantz to Parasounds for FR, FL, C, RS, LS Audioquest Red River XLR cables from Marantz to Parasounds for all 4 height channels. Audioquest Firebird high current 3' power cable for Oppo 203 Audioquest Hurricane high current 6' power cable for JC5 All other power cables Shunyata Venom high current 6' 7 dedicated 20 amp lines using Furutech GTX (R) NCF outlets and Furutech outlet covers, 10 gauge shielded wiring to a dedicated panel with a copper bus bar. Unfortunately the panel is about 20 feet away from the outlets.
Here's the thing. What are the possible sources of noise you are trying to clean up? If you live in an urban area or near any commercial or industrial facilities, you're likely to need some cleanup. If the circuit to which you power your system is shared with appliances, dimmers, florescent lights, etc., you're gonna need conditioning. If your system is composed of mid-level components that don't properly shield the noise they generate internally, you'll need help. Finally, if your speakers are high sensitivity speakers, you'll likely hear some of the noise. BUT.....If you don't have any of the above issues, and can't hear any noise in the black parts of music, you'll likely be wasting money and possibly adding problems by adding conditioners or regenerators. Don't believe the hype about improvements on problems you don't have.
Like anything else, you need to try one in your system. A friend who's also a dealer (audio, that is) once brought over one of the more expensive PSA regeneration units and it had no effect, whatsoever. I'd second the suggestion to try one from an online vendor that offers a free, in-home trial (free, except for return shipping), if you cannot borrow one. Keep in mind that Music Direct may penalize you in future if you buy something and return it. In my experience, Audio Advisor is more forgiving in this regard.
I doubt that there is any place with really clean power. The power lines pick up all sorts of RFI and noise from neighbors sharing the same trunk feed. A typical home has its own share of noise sources--electronic devices, wi-fi, LED lights, etc. It does not hurt to do some form of power conditioning.
I use Isotek Titan and EVO 3 Sigma conditioners. These are quite expensive. But, at a demonstration at a local dealership, I heard their $500 power bar with conditioning, and it delivered a substantial proportion of what their much more expensive conditioners deliver. The power bar is quite a bargain.
Environmental Potentials EP-2050 Waveform Correction Absorber: The
EP-2450, a lightweight, full-size chassis, has eight unisolated AC
outlets that can pass 20 amperes of HF-filtered, ground-filtered,
surge-protected AC, and comes equipped with a filtered and
surge-protected coaxial line. KR used the EP-2450 to rid his system of
noise generated from digital amps. "Reduced amp noise to effective
inaudibility!" The E-2050 provides protection from AC-borne noise by
means of a tracking filter, and uses a metal-oxide varistor to clamp and
absorb surges. KR: "Examination of my house's line voltage on an
oscilloscope revealed a smoother, cleaner 60Hz signal than before."
(Vol.28 No.9 WWW)
I don't have one but just sayin'.
No matter what a dedicated line is essential. Then make sure to add a Brick Wall or ZeroSurge first for protection
I DO have that. Plus whole house surge protection plus PS Audio AND AudioQuest gear.
There is no such thing as a dedicated line. It all goes back to the same place. As far as current draw is concerned, your circuit breaker is going to trip long before you overload the line. As far as noise is concerned, any decent power supply will filter it out. That is what it does for a living, filter out AC, any AC. All this business with "power conditioning" is lay instinct run amok. Replacing my entire system would cost just shy of $100,000.00. All I use is one 10 socket power strip for the front end and two separate 20 amp lines for 4 power amplifiers totaling 4000 watts of power. Most of the units are using their stock power cords others I made myself. I tried a power conditioner way back. All it did was take up space.
My power is a bit noisy because I have a solar system and the invertor doesn't generate the cleanest power. I found that my PS Audio regenerator helped a lot to reduce noise and resulted in a blacker background, better low level detail, and slightly improved imaging.
However, it did not work well on my power amps, resulting in reduced dynamics.
I think power regenerators work best on equipment that has a fairly constant current draw, which generally includes all front end devices, but do not work as well on amps which have high instantaneous current demands. But that's my opinion and, as they say, your mileage may vary.
There
is no such thing as a dedicated line. It all goes back to the same
place.
Your claim that there's no such thing as a dedicated line would be quite a surprise to the folks who write the National Electrical Code, which requires a dedicated line for some household appliances. In audio, the advantage of a dedicated line isn't (as you mistakenly believe) that it's fed from a different source, but that it feeds only one device.
As far as current draw is concerned, your circuit breaker is
going to trip long before you overload the line.
It's not clear what you're trying to say. A circuit breaker's role is to protect the wires in the wall, so it should trip before the wire itself heats up from overload.
All this business with
"power conditioning" is lay instinct run amok.
Perhaps if you understood dedicated lines a little better you'd better understand other issues relating to AC power.
Replacing my entire
system would cost just shy of $100,000.00.All I use is one 10 socket
power strip ...
So? There's no correlation between cost and power requirements nor, apparently, the ability to understand that yes, Virginia, there is such a thing as a dedicated power line.
If power supples cleaned as good as they say, why aren't they all standardized by now? No two manufacturers employ the same design.
Addressing AC is only one part. How many address DC properly? Just a few milliamps of DC will run ruin on any transfomer and will continue to do so for several seconds after DC is dealt with, or gone.
Here is a link to a video on the efficacy of power regeneration and the like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qGPq5vr04M Yes, he has something to sell but raises some good points.
I had the opportunity to compare many options. My choice: For power amplifiers (using Classe): Isotek Titan/Super Titan. Here, PS Audio smothered the speaker. SR Powercell is excellent. For sources: the final choice was from PS Audio P10 (less powerful by a level worse) and SR PowerCell (SX better). Each has its own advantages. As a result, my SR SX is connected to the PS P10. Currently, I would include the Audioquest Niagara and Shunyata Denali in the mandatory test.
I decided to pull the trigger on an Audioquest Niagara 1200. It’s back-ordered, so I don’t have it yet. Turns out the PS Audio P3 may be marginal for the power needs of my system. The Niagara seems like a great value if it does anything good for my system. I’ll post again after I have had it in my system for a while. Thanks to the community for your recommendations.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
