Russian Tube Preamp, No Return, Here I go again

Commie rig.

Gosh, cmariner1.
How interesting and insightful!
And on only your second post. One can but hope all your future remarks will be as profound...

Well? Well?
Any new news yet?

Nada, Nyet, Nope. It will be a nice surprise.

Meanwhile, I decided to try and find a reasonably priced CD player that is audibly superior to my existing Sony.

Found and bought an Oppo BDP-83SE (special audio edition). Sadly, the laser mechanism was shot, 'unknown disc' .. Evidently a common problem. I just dropped it off yesterday pre-paid return shipping for full refund when received.

Been looking at:

Oppo UDP-205 (dual processors)

Onkyo C-7000R (dual processors)

*my first player was Onkyo DX-7500, dual matched burr brown processors, wonderful but got so drawer wouldn't open. I now realize I should have had it fixed, but it annoyed me (I couldn't fix it myself) and was very large. 

Pioneer UDP-LX500, interesting audio options.

Denon DCD-800NE

Sony UBP-X1100ES
.......................................

CD/SACD, 2 channel only: suggestions: good/avoid????????????????

Not sure what your budget is, but I'm sure you can do better than an Oppo. They're not very good sounding.

I own a BDP83SE (from the estate of a friend), an Oppo BDP105, a Sony 2400ES, and an Ayre C5Xe-mp.  These are all at least "good" CDPs, but I like the Ayre and the BDP105 best, with an edge to the Ayre.  The BDP105 and the 205 are possibly the best DVD players ever made that are not astronomically expensive. I actually hesitate to rate the Sony, as I rarely use it for listening, and my wife uses the BDP83SE for movies most of the time. The Ayre has a possible issue if you use it to feed electrically unstable downstream components.  For max audio quality, it does not have a low pass filter on its output. Thus it puts out some "noise" at very high frequencies, like 250kHz.  This only helps the audio, but it can upset any downstream components that have a tendency to oscillate. The Sony and I presume the Oppo devices do have such filters.

lewm, thanks for your advice,

I checked out the 105, some very good reviews, in my budget.

I don't need the Darbee version which was a video upgrade.

One thing I like about the BDP-105 is that replacement lasers are readily available.

One thing I don't like about the BDP-105 is that there are MANY people selling replacement lasers.

I've got my eye on two, both original owners, excellent condition. Let's see what answers they can give me about how much work the laser has done.
........................................

roxy54

Reviewers seem to disagree with you, as well as lewm.

I had an early Oppo, used only for video. Read somewhere that it had well respected sound.  My Onkyo DX-7500 was still my CD player then.  For fun, moved the Oppo into the sound system, it sounded very good. I gave it to my golden eared friend, he still loves it.

I got a more video advanced blu-ray player, now using it for CD's in the garage sound system. Small HT, went fully cooperating sony tv/avr/blu-ray, 1 remote talks to all.

Re: "How do you search for a seller on eBay..."

Upper right on eBay page, click "Advanced" to the right of the Search button, and scroll down to the Sellers section. Check the "Only show items from:" and "Specific sellers.." boxes and type the seller’s user id in the window beside the include/exclude drop-down. Then click the Search button.

I did that. It never occurred to me: he doesn't have any current listings, so nothing came up.

I was looking to find his profile: approval rating, sales history, evidently has sold 360 items,

nothing came up.

i_quadius

elliott,
I'm sure that it sounds perfectly fine to you and your friend. I'm just saying that if you compare it to a really fine player, it has an artificial and electronic signature to it. Hey, they didn't cost a fortune, so you can't expect too much. 

roxy54

i'll quote lewm

"The BDP105 and the 205 are possibly the best DVD players ever made that are not astronomically expensive".

that's my goal with anything.

just saw this interesting preamp, doo deep for my bookshelves, but thought I'd pass along the find

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VTA-VACUUM-TUBE-AUDIO-ALL-TUBE-PREAMP-MODEL-SP9-w-BASS-TREBLE-PH-12-PHONO-S...

Elliot has your preamp arrived from Russia yet?

jond

I just wrote to the seller, he gets what I get, simply 'in transit' since march 1st.

He mentioned Boxberry, anyone know anything about them?

"For my part, I try to constantly send requests to the Russian Post. They answer - "the package is being delivered, please wait."

Just this week, another inexpensive way to send parcels to the United States appeared - the Boxberry company. Unfortunately, a couple of months ago, this company did not send parcels abroad yet."

There is nothing about delivery to USA with Boxberry on their site. They do not ship to USA.

The best way to ship from Russia to USA is Russian Post (EMS Express).

However, if you’re not a sender you can’t make any claim. You can only wait. If it was shipped on March 1st then you will get it soon.

Don’t waste your time sending requests to Russian Post, it’s worthless. Even if your seller (as a shipper) will proceed with claim it will take over 90 days to investigate the case. EMS do not provide an insurance anyway. If your parcel is lost - it’s lost, compensation for shipping only.

Check this tracking system:

www.trackitonline.ru

chackster,

Interesting, thanks for the info, I thought you might be interested in his reply about Boxberry.

You know I am patient, I was just curious if they got any more info than 'In Transit' on their end.

Occasionally I order things direct from China, thru eBay, Wish ... stuff comes rather quickly, very little money, sometimes free shipping built into an already low price.

I am hoping an inexpensive shipping method from Russia re-surfaces so I can buy the Russian tube the preamp uses rather than substitute. Now they tell me the minimum price for a small parcel is $40. USD.

There is only one regular flight to USA from Russia and it’s Moscow - New York.
Do you know that all boarders with EU closed for Russians? The US is open, but how many flight do you expect in this situation? 90% of the flight to any destination are canceled long time ago.  

It’s true than EMS is not cheap, but it’s Express, it was 5 days estimate before covid, now there is NO estimate delivery time to USA, but, in my own experience, anything from 7 days to 30 days is normal, anything from 30 to 60 days is also OK (just bad luck). If it’s more than 60 days then you can only open paypal claim, your seller will never get refund from the shipping company (insurance for full value is impossible), except for shipping cost, but paypal will refund you withing 2 weeks 100%.

Why do you think shipping from Russia to USA must be cheap, do you know USPS international shipping rates?

For example: to ship one LP from USA to Russia cost $25 minimum and it’s not even Express mail (not even priority).

When you pay $40 or even $100 for an amp shipped from Russia to USA with EMS Express it’s fair price! Try to calculate same weight on usps.com for shipping to Russia.


Russia is not China, so your analogy with shipping from China is irrelevant.

chackster

keyword of my hope is: "re-surfaces".

Perhaps, it seems like you are saying: there never was a low priced method from Russia; never close to as low as China was and still is able to accomplish. Past: better time, not better price.

"russian 6N23P-EV in the second cascade"

Knowing this, the preamp maker should have offered spare(s) at a low cost prior to shipping the unit.

If China had 6N23P-EV’s in stock, how much do you guess they would charge to ship a pair?

I shake my head at the low shipping charges they offer.

Seamail shipping cost nothing compared to EMS. But seamail is 3 month minimum.

Airmail post is also cheap, but you must wait longer.

I have no idea why do you compare China and Russia? Almost everything is made in China and almost nothing is made in Russia nowadays.

Chinese products cost nothing and shipping often is free (don’t know how they can make a profit :))

Elliot, you need not fret about the availability or lack of 6N23 tubes in the US or the shipping expense from Russia. I’m sure there are some very suitable substitutes that are readily available here. Moreover you have thousands of hours of listening ahead of you before you even have to solve this non-problem. That’s assuming you like the SQ of the Russian preamp. If you don’t, you’ll be selling it before the tubes wear out.

Did some research for you. 6DJ8/6922 are equivalents. This is a whole family of tubes sold under different alphanumeric designations. You could hardly have a wider choice. Go to Tubes Store for example. Oy.

lewm,

thanks for looking this up, very helpful.

I agree, thousands of hours, and, my office system gets less work than the main system. On the other hand, it could arrive smashed.

It was a 'what if?' and, my recent lousy sounding 6SL7's for my Cayin is a warning about spending money for the wrong substitute. I got lucky, my 2nd choice was a winner.

If it sounds great, a direct replacement may avoid a tube chase.

6N23 = 6922, etc. They are the same tube so far as I can tell.

lewm,

thanks as usual for your help.

any thoughts on using these adapters?

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/6sn7-to-6922-adapter

just curious, I am not sure 6sn7 would fit in/thru the case. 

In a word, don’t.

Elliott, even if the pin out is the same and the operating characteristics are very close it's always best to look at the filament current draw on the data sheets and compare. I would suspect being a larger octal tube that there is a good chance it will load the transformer more. Not worth risking it unless you know the exact specs on the transformer and there is plenty of reserve.
BillWojo

Maker says yes 6922

55 Bids!

Melton Tube Preamp (just watching for fun while waiting for mine)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melton-MP-12-Stereo-Tube-Preamp/133725006602

Here it is NEW

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melton-MP-12-Stereo-Tube-Preamp/143999271205?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo...

Bill and Elliot, of course the pin out cannot be the same; one is an octal base and the other has 9 pins. One has a wider diameter base and thicker pins than the other. Elliot was asking about an adapter that hat I assume would solve those problems. But it’s still a bad idea because the two tubes are electrically very different. Also, he hasn’t even received the preamp yet. Wouldn’t you want to listen first before tube rolling? Filament current draw is not that different between the two and most designs have some flexibility as to current available for the filaments. But the 6922 is apt to draw a lot more plate current than would be good for a 6SN7. Also there are dozens of electrically identical or similar subs for a 6922.

Bill, lewm

thanks to you both for the comments about those adapters, I was, as always, just curious.

Seller just told me it's here in USA, (that damn JFK airport that held my Russian Tonearm when covid started). I'm going on a short trip, of course it will arrive while I'm gone. Neighbor will fetch it for me.

time sequence backwards:

EMS delivery from КондровоEE015444252RUUnited States of America Post

Passed registration in United States of America 22 April 2021, 18:41 USJFKA, United States of America

Processing in United States of America 22 April 2021, 10:03 JFK, United States of AmericaRussian Post

Released from Russia 01 March 2021, 00:55 , Rossiya

Released by custom house 21 February 2021, 14:49 130980,

Arrived at the Post office17 February 2021, 18:40 249833, KondrovoEMS delivery3 kg 794 gFrom: Пряхин С.To: ELLIOTT NEWCOMB

Ordered feb 12th, they just needed to install 120 v transformer and test it

Hmmmm, 

I'm visiting a friend in Vestal, NY. Same town as Audio Classics

https://www.audioclassics.com/

Right next to McIntosh in Binghamton

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/brand/contactus

last time I went I dropped my McIntosh SS amp and preamp, they certified them, sold em in factory boxes, bought the Tube amp and preamp.

Now that I think this little Russian preamp will be here when I return, I'm gonna drop my McIntosh mx110z Tube Tuner/Preamp for a once over, see what A C recommends. It sounds great, love it, but it's original, never messed with that I can see, over 50 years old.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Yet ...

If it’s 50 years old and REALLY never been serviced, it’s broke in some way, you can be sure. At the very least it will need an alignment. Chances are it has been serviced at some point, or you would not love it so much.
Wait! Did you say your Russian preamp was delivered somewhere and now "only" needs a 120V transformer to be installed?  Where was it delivered, and who is doing that work?

No, it's complete.

They had it ready, they just needed to know what voltage transformer to install when I ordered it on the 12th, they installed it, tested it, got it out on the 17th. Through Russian system, on it's way 3-1-21, finally USA 4-22-21.

mx110z, Say what you will,

I took it’s cover off when received, no visible problems, no apparent repairs or upgrades.

I hosed down all moving parts with contact cleaner a few times as I do with any vintage stuff. That FM radio sounds fabulous, and the Phono section also, I don’t use other inputs, but I tried them, all were noise free. All controls, mode switch, noise free.

I have a lot of vintage tubes of these types, new and used, but I'm using the ones it came with, I just got lucky. The whole point of this was, 'here I go again' (taking risks). If things don't work out, I'll deal with it, but I won't letequipment's age worry me. 

I have a dedicated FM antenna aimed directly to the one Jazz station we have, WBGO, 88.3 if you like Jazz, check em out online.

My Fisher receivers, 800C (now Bills) and two 500c's are also amazing, as are the pair of Fisher 80z mono tube amps from 1958. Those I had checked out over the years, a blown resistor here and there, that's it.

We’ve been over this ground before. I convinced you that I am more invested in “vintage” than you are. I never said you shouldn’t own or like your Mc tuner/preamplifier. But a 40-50 year old piece of tube gear is likely to benefit from some new or upgraded parts, and any tube tuner of that era is likely to need re-alignment if that’s never been done during its prior life. Your visual inspection of its innards means only that it has never been on fire.

mx110z has an appointment with Ryan at Audio Classics, wed 8:15 am.

Russian Preamp arrived a few hours ago. Very nicely/safely packaged.

1. Took cover off, exactly like photos posted, EXCEPT all connections are made!
2. confirmed transformer is 120 volt.
3. they didn’t have a US power cord (it’s detachable type), so he gave me a Jeff Beck CD in the box. Got cord, Bill’s friends at Greenbrook Electronics, $4.00
4. four tubes, two 6n4p; one 6N23P; one 12ax7EH each tube marked,
5. BUT, no indication where they go in the unit. Seller will send photo with locations shown. That is quite a mistake. I recall he mentioned one customer put the tube in the wrong socket and blew the board. They sent him a replacement board and instructions how to change, but that never would have happened if they just included the photo or a diagram.


So, I’ll listen as usual via mx110z with my friend this afternoon.
I’ll test the Russian preamp via Office System, Carver Cube tonight
Tomorrow compare Russian to mx110z as-is.
Sunday, pull/take mx110z north to Vestal, NY to visit my two photo buddies I met online.
Wed. am mx110z to the doctor for checkup.

when mx110z gets back from the doctor I'll compare to the Russian again.

It ain't going well at all! I'm off for a week, just thought I'd let you know I might regret it this time.

Damn I wish I had seen that Luxman C35 before I ordered this. It was here in NJ for me to pick up, custom Rosewood Case, only $1,800. Would I have known how good a price that was? Would I have spent that much money? I'll never know.

Problem is noise, mostly hiss, some underlying hum. Unit waits 1 minute, then defaults to 10% volume, Phono. Noise, both channels, increases both channels as volume wicreases. Noise at all 3 line inputs, however the noise is louder at Phono input.

Same noise with no input, just it's output to my Cayin which doesn't know how to make noise.

............................

IF it was good when shipped, only 2 things changed

1. shipping (arrived in good shape)
2. changed power cord

Could it be the Power Cord?

It’s a detachable power cord. Seller didn’t have USA, so apologized, shipped with one with two round pins (no 3rd separate ground pin). He used a voltage converter to test it with the 120v transformer he put in. He said no noise.

I could use an adapter on his cord, or a replacement cord.

I bought a USA detachable cord, same fitting at unit, 2 flat blades, no 3rd ground pin, no wider blade for orientation. Just like what comes with many TT, like my Panasonic in the shop.

Never had a problem with any cord in my system. I could switch the cord I bought for the one downstairs, but if it was a power cord issue, that would be hum, not hiss correct?

The hiss sounds to me like old/bad tubes. 

Are you absolutely certain that you have the right tube in the right socket? Because if you have misplaced the tubes in their sockets, all bets are off, and any symptoms could be explained by that, particularly the ones you mentioned. And no, the power cord is not causing that much in the way of problems. Even if you think you installed each tube correctly, I would open the chassis and take another look at where you placed each tube in relation to the instructions you were evidently given.

yes, tubes are in the correct sockets. I got photo with locations indicated from seller.

Have you double-checked to be sure you got it right?  If so, then I would take the problem to the seller and ask him to reaffirm his instructions to you regarding tube placement.  After that doesn't lead you to a solution,  you need a good tech. 

That's a shame, after all of the waiting.

All is not lost. Broken can always be fixed.

I returned from my trip, took videos showing hookup and recorded noise. Just sent to seller. Tomorrow is going to be the end of seller's hope that I am doing something wrong.

Noise even with nothing connected, just preamp to amp. Both channels, all input selections, 3 videos recorded noise increasing as preamp volume is raised.

Tube placement is quadruple checked, they sent me a photo with the USA and Russian tube designations clearly shown.

Open paypal claim, send it back, get full refund from paypal (including return shipping) and NEVER buy CHINESE AMPS assembled in Russia! 

Yeah, I blew it this time.

I just started a claim via eBay, seller has until 5-6-21. Then eBay gets involved. I will call my credit card company to see how they can help if needed.

I have documented things VERY well, photos, recap of all messages, videos of noise at low/mid/high volumes. I have original undamaged shipping box.
...............................

How did I make this mistake?????

Initially all I wanted was a small tube MM phono eq for my office system.

Saw this. I liked its size to fit on top of or in my bookcase. More inputs: I could also run the R2R tape thru it. Wood ends (I would have replaced with my own thicker wood).

this caught my eye: ... "analogue of the famous M-7 preamplifier from Mr. Hiroyashi Kondo". I checked HK out, impressive ...

Photo of innards: Admit it, a LOT of expensive equipment looks similar inside, nice transformer, alps vol pot, ... yes this is a kit look. Tubes, not a hybrid. Soft start, remote volume ...

Hmm, tubes: I could drag my 1958 Fisher 80z mono blocks out (still can of course).

https://www.google.com/search?q=fisher+80z+amplifier&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS881US881&sxsrf=ALeKk029...

Past luck: JVC big plinth and TT81 from Russian in Canada. Long Russian Tonearm from NewArtVinyl

http://newartvinyl.ru/board/detali_proigryvatelja/tonarm_black_bird12_5_carbon/7-1-0-41

and, I think I discovered, the RISK was part of it.

You win some, you lose some (hopefully not too many).

You don't have to explain anything to paypal if for whatever reason you're not happy with purchase. This is why there is a buyer's protection program. I don't think seller will argue as they can block his account.

The problem is not a nationality of the seller or his country, the problem is equipment. 

You could buy something from reputable designer or brand.