Hey Granny,
It is truly amazing what proper room treatment can do for your sonic enjoyment. TV between speakers is always a bad idea. It seems like a great idea for us, but speakers hate it. I guess a drop down screen would work they even have acoustically transparent ones.
If you experiment you'll find placement of your traps and diffusors can make a difference also like distance to the floor and ceiling and how to treat the reflection points. Diffuse or absorb? Right now I do a combo of the two. It would be cool if there was an aerosol spray product that when used and music was played you could actually the radiation patterns of the speakers, what happens when the waves hit the walls, and the effects room treatments play. Maybe there is a computer program tha would let you input room dimensions, speaker type, placement in the room, and treatment placement. This would be very cool
Have lots of fun though. Can't wait to see your pics.
For you would be buyers, GIK, has many cool products that can work magic in your rooms and not make your room look like a studio. I wish I'd discovered them before purchasing the variety of products I'm using such as Auralex and Ready Acoustics (I'd never but anything from the folks at Ready again.) |
Great to hear your response to what I've been advised to do for quite some time now. Emotional connections made from music go very deep. Maybe it's time now for me to buy some Kleenex. |
A new believer. It often is all about the tweak of the room, not new equipment. However, there is often no need to remove the TV, just do a custom diffuser to place over the screen. I can't count the number of systems that show up on Audiogon with the TV between the speakers. Also, even if you don't have the Tv, most have their equipment rack between the speakers, which is a no/no, unless you have it acoustically shielded. |
Amen to that. I did that last week and every word you say is correct...even more.
I have "started off" with 2 tri-traps and 2 monster-traps. I have a small room and the bass actually has definition. I used to hear this all over the forum, but was not sure what it means. At the same time, the treble clarity has drastically increased. I was assuming that with the panels, the treble would go down. But, I guess, this is what happened - the bass reflections were controlled. Hence they are not smearing the treble waves. So, I find the treble more clear. I was all exited and described it to my wife, as my 6 1/2 year was watching. After I was done, he mentioned - wow, you are so exited. Yep I am.
GIK is a strange company. I was ready to buy more, but they would simply not let me do it. Just kidding. What I mean is - Bryan was absolutely helpful for making my decision. He suggested the panels, based on the room dimensions and pictures I sent. He then asked me to put the panels and listen for a week or more, before deciding if I needed more treatment. This is what all the audio firms should do. Not just push your products on customers.
And all this with the speakers sitting directly on carpet (without spikes), which is on wooden floor. I am waiting for the granite slabs to come in. I then intend to spike the speakers and put them on the granite slabs.
Acoustic treatments are easily the best investments in this great hobby!! |
Your post Bill is almost enough to make me contemplate divorce. As everyone always says, the room is THE most important component. I have a decent room, but I cannot make it my own. I've been waiting many years for the kids to move out, but that's not looking like it's ever going to happen. One finally did leave but my wife stole his room for her scrapbooking cave before I had everything unplugged. Then he moved back in again anyway...sigh. It looks like the only chance I have of being able to weep like that is to run away and hide. :-)
I'm glad you have found sonic nirvana, now be a smart boy and jump off the merry-go-round NOW!!!
Cheers,
John |
Amazing and not expected, at least not this level of improvement and emotional connection.
I'm very happy for you now that you are so emotionally connected to your music during playback. Good job! I don't where you've been bwteen then & now but it's been written & said (if you attend audio shows, informal gatherings at friends' places, dealer's showrooms, etc) that the room is perhaps the most important interface to a music playback system. You could get 1 item each from every Stereophile A list OR TAS's best of the best OR from your favourite audio mag and you could connect those components together in your listening room & you will find that your sonics are not A-list at all; in fact, not even close until you treat your room. You could have trolled the A'gon archives for tomes written on this subject to find that the room is the inital/final frontier w.r.t. playback. Anyway, I/we are happy that you learnt this in this life-time! ;-) Enjoy your music & keep a few Kleenex handy.... :-) |
Bombaywalla, I'm no spring chicken just onto something new...
I have tried products from Echo Busters and other companies I won't mention. I have also built my own panels before. They NEVER did what these GIK panel did however. I ended up removing the others and selling them.
I guess I am saying it WORKED this time and with this company - GIK.
So yes I have been around and seen and heard. This is the first time this "stuff' has worked for me in my personal experience.
So I am excited. |
I will add those other products just dulled the sound to the point that all the excitment was lost. I have educated myself on correct placements etc... and while these GIK products were placed in the exact same positions of the past room treatment products, the results with the GIK's are simply amazing.
Perhaps this helps give my post some perspective |
"Room treatment made me cry"
Glad to hear it due to the results, not the cost! :-)
Do you think removing the TV was a significant part of the improvement?
THanks. |
Mapman, I have removed the TV to test before the treatments showed up and while there was an improvement, it was not that pronounced. The TV was about 5 feet behind the front plane of the speakers so perhaps that also helped negate some of the TV factor?
The cost was reasonable as I purchased most of these used here on Agon. |
Jmcgrogan, yes I will stay put! Ha!
Buconero117, if the gear is 4 feet behind the front plane of the speakers and only 2 feet off the floor and in a rack that allows space over, under and throughout the gear, then how much can this really impact the sound?
I think running long single ended ic's would be more of a negative. I can't afford long runs of speaker cable and love my 10 foot set. It seems if gear is on the floor or on a very short rack (2 feet or so) it may not be an issue. I would think gear set up this way between the speakers would do more scattering? Just a question?
Sgr, I also owned panels from the two companies you mentioned and they dulled the room only. Same experience as you. |
I find it hard to believe that the wall panels are any different from other Reynolds 703 fiberglass panels, even the home made ones. The bass panels are 4" thick rather than 2" - I could see that making a difference. Have you tried diffusors before, in all your trials? I think that could make a BIG difference. |
hey Granny, thanks for the clarification - your orig post gave NO indication of your being a veteran & having tried many other products & being disappointed. So, yeah, your later posts did put things in perspective. Sorry for the cheeky post content. Enjoy! |
John, your post had me LOL as I also have college and post college aged children. They come back for a season and then scatter. Empty nest to full house from one weekend to the next.
As good as a treated room sounds the harmony of a loving wife is far better :-) |
I dont think there is anything wrong with Grannyring hearing or perception ... the differences he is hearing between the livelier GIK traps and his former Echo Buster and DIY attempts may be that the GIK traps are using a FRK (Kraft Paper facing) glued to the face of the ridge fiber board before covering the fiberboard/traps This FRK facing will reflect some of the Mid and Treble energy back into the room due to its reflective nature and may be the reason that Grannyring is hearing a livelier presentation with the GIK traps vs Echo Busters and his DIY attempts LOL as I also have college and post college aged children. They come back for a season and then scatter Money isnt everything ... but it sure keeps the children in close touch (;-) |
Panels make a difference. The homemade ones you mention and others do not absorb as evenly accross the frequency spectrum. GIK panels are 5.5 inches thick for the 244 panel. The monster bass panel is 6 inches deep.
So instead of absorbing just the highs and taking all the life out of the music they are more broadband and greatly improve focus and reduce smearing. Look at the provided test results and compare to others and you will quickly find GIK panels perform much better.
My ears proved it for me. I have used the rock wool and rigid fiberglass products and they simply don't compare. |
Ok, I placed an additional tri bass trap and monster bass trap behind me. Very nice indeed. Things are sounding very good indeed. I really like the GIK stuff. I purchased more then I needed however and will end selling some panels and one tri trap soon.
My final quest is what to do with my ceiling? Should I diffuse? I think so as my ceiling is 7.5 feet high. Not sure where to place these, but I assume at the spot I see my speaker's tweeters and mid drivers when using a mirror from my listening seat? |
Bill, call GIK (toll free) they can give you some placement ideas about your room demensions and ceiling treatments if you haven't already. |
I diffuse the ceiling. Yes, use the reflection points on the ceiling. |
I throw an afghan (quilt) over my tv for serious listening, which makes such a clear improvement that even non-audiophiles hear it. It may not be necessary to remove it from the room, just control reflections from that very hard surface. Some quilts work better than others, and perhaps some kind of panel would work even better. |
Lloydc,
Thanks for the tip re: quilt over the TV set. I was told that putting a diffuser panel in front of my TV would make a world of difference but never got around to purchasing one as it would have to be about 4' sq. to cover the TV and stand.
Trying a dense rug makes sense as it's what I use behind my speakers on a wall shared by my neighbor below who no longer hears most of my music.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Just wanted to report back on what I've experienced.
Crimony!
Better focus and a loss of smear I didn't think I had. I'm able to hear deeper into the recordings. And all of this from a wool blanket draped over my widescreen TV and stand, which then reaches to about a foot from the floor.
I know a diffuser panel of sorts is what's called for but the size is prohibitive so I'm off to get a really thick blanket which seems to do the trick. I just may get a panel (with stands) to treat the right side of my room as my speaker is just over a yard from the side wall (the other side opens unto an open room) to cure any reflections that I (at first) didn't seem to care about.
Now I do.
And to think I called myself an audiophile while ignoring the most aspect:
The room.
Doh!
Thanks and all the best,
Nonoise |
I did try both a panel and blanket cover over the TV. I have a 52 inch screen and removing it from between the speakers turned out to be a far greater improvement. Sorry to have to share this, but this was my experience. |
Nonoise, Amen to your final comments! I am thrilled with the results of my GIK treatments. Everything you mention regarding sound improvements and more with my newly treated room. I have dipole speakers, and placing diffusion behind the speakers was a HUGE leap forward in sound quality! |
04-03-12: Nonoise
Just wanted to report back on what I've experienced.
Crimony!
Better focus and a loss of smear I didn't think I had. I'm able to hear deeper into the recordings. And all of this from a wool blanket draped over my widescreen TV and stand, which then reaches to about a foot from the floor.
I know a diffuser panel of sorts is what's called for but the size is prohibitive so I'm off to get a really thick blanket which seems to do the trick. I just may get a panel (with stands) to treat the right side of my room as my speaker is just over a yard from the side wall (the other side opens unto an open room) to cure any reflections that I (at first) didn't seem to care about.
Now I do.
And to think I called myself an audiophile while ignoring the most aspect:
The room.
Doh!
Thanks and all the best,
Nonoise
finally, finally you are getting afoot to live up to your moniker! ;-) Reading your post it seems that you were "allnoise" so far!!! ;-) |
finally, finally you are getting afoot to live up to your moniker!:-) Reading your post it seems that you were "allnoise" so far!:-) All(reflected)noise, to be exact!:-) |
