If one measures the room, the speaker placement, and the listener position… then one can ray trace the bounces to get the delays from the reflections relative to the direct path.
If one then does a correlation the combing will show the reflections.
Usually one wants to take out the early ones, so the sides off the walls, maybe using a mirror, and ones behind the speakers and maybe behind the listener would be the earliest.
I would do the sides and then behind the speakers and then the behind the listener… and then from there who knows.
This is a great situation in which to use the correlation (or autocorrelation) to put numbers to things.
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The little squares are only good for damping higher frequencies. If you're going to do it by ear then use mirrors to decide placement for the reflective points. From your listening seat you put the squares where you can see the reflection of the tweeter on the mirror you tack up.
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Reflections points from speakers yes. The importance will be be effected by proximity and wall material. For instance my speakers are ~ 10’ from the side walls and because of room geometry I don’t need any. What is your room size and speaker position.
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How many and how big??
Of course people will advise you to put them at 1st reflection points but honestly I find that alone this is never enough. You need to have a critical mass of room treatment before you get a noticeable benefit IMHO.
Spread it around!
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Of course people will advise you to put them at 1st reflection points but honestly I find that alone this is never enough. You need to have a critical mass of room treatment before you get a noticeable benefit IMHO.
^To cut down the decay time ~ I agree^
But to cut down the early reflections is another matter.
The specific goal was not stated by the OP, however some measurement would be useful before ordering the stuff to address what the exact goal is, and where the OP wants it to end up at.
(i.e. what specific problem is the OP addressing?)
I believe REW does the RT60 decay time, and also the early reflection as a correlation. Is this OP doing that?
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But to cut down the early reflections is another matter.
My point is, if you don’t have control over the room decay you won’t notice first reflection point absorption. I’ve treated several rooms, and never have I heard a big improvement by treating first reflection points alone. Only once the room was better treated did those panels suddenly become worthwhile. We pay too much attention to first reflection points, IMHO. It’s not, alone, going to do much good.
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My point is, if you don’t have control over the room decay you won’t notice first reflection point absorption. I’ve treated several rooms, and never have I heard a big improvement by treating first reflection points alone. Only once the room was better treated did those panels suddenly become worthwhile. We pay too much attention to first reflection points, IMHO. It’s not, alone, going to do much good.
Good for what?
And how are you quantifying, or describing, improvement?
it would only be for imaging and maybe ease of listening.
A few squires should not tonally change things.
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I still want to know more about the squares, as in size, thickness, material used, and how many. Who makes them and what model would do.
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It seems erik_squires know very well room acoustic...
I recommend to listen to his advice...
His advice here will help greatly to perceive a natural timbre experience which is only possible by controlling also timing of the direct and indirect waves ...
Room acoustic cannot be figured out only with the metaphor of boucing rays anyway, a room is an enclosure of competing pressure zones also... Then like says our friend here the room must be treated globally...
Thanks
How many and how big??
Of course people will advise you to put them at 1st reflection points but honestly I find that alone this is never enough. You need to have a critical mass of room treatment before you get a noticeable benefit IMHO.
Spread it around!
My point is, if you don’t have control over the room decay you won’t notice first reflection point absorption. I’ve treated several rooms, and never have I heard a big improvement by treating first reflection points alone. Only once the room was better treated did those panels suddenly become worthwhile. We pay too much attention to first reflection points, IMHO. It’s not, alone, going to do much good.
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For the OP and @4krowme I have some brands:
GIK Acoustics - Great performing, not the cheapest, but high value
ATS Acoustics - Even cheaper than GIK, also good but GIK has some models that are exceptional
amcoustics.com - Great resource for learning about room modes and room acoustics.
The bottom left of the Amcoustics page has a calculator for panels.
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Thanks Eric,
Good choices you have there. I want to be interested in them, but it ain't gonna happen. My question was aimed more toward what info the OP has about what he has chosen to use. We know nothing and can assume little.
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No more info than you're giving might as well place the squares in the closet.
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@magister and @erik_squires
That acoustics.com site talks about room modes.
Are you two fellows also discussing room modes?
And what is OP looking for? Room modes?
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For a while, I worked for the local college repairing some of their abused machinery. Usually the ticket would read "broke" or "doesn't work". What we have here is a lack of communication. One of my favorite movie lines.
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The GIK Acoustics web site has lots of excellent free advice.
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The GIK Acoustics web site has lots of excellent free advice.
is it? 😀
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Thanks Eric also. Your continued insistence on the importance of room treatments for significant sonic benefits has moved me from buying minimal to treating it like it's a necessary component. But I may have to take a measured approach because I plan to move in a few years and don't want to end up with many unused items.
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Um, I'll bite. Let's say you have 5, 2'x2' squares. You must have been in a hurry and not included that. That is inadequate to treat a room. Even 10 of them. So, put one behind your head, one on each side of your speakers, that's 5. Stack the rest in a corner. Don't isolate the reflections in the room, you don't have enough stuff. Isolate yourself from the reflections, easier and better.
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All written above ^^^^ is good advice, I went with ATS panels - found them on my local CL site. Spending the $$$ without sure of the outcome was questionable for me at first - where to start, so I went used. May not be the best choice if your music room is your Living room. I have a dedicated room, so didn’t t really care. Yes, everything counts in the audio world if you’re listening for it. I am now checking out Bass Traps.
Here are two good reads that my son sent me as I went down this path - he is an audio engineer, with a couple of Grammy’s to his credit.
more than necessary for a home environment but will certainly help you
another good read is:
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