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Rogue Cronus Magnum II, but I have depth constraints..

Hi all -- I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a Rogue Cronus Magnum II to pair with my KEF LS50 speakers.  I've listened to a number of SS and Tube integrated amps (Hegel H90, McIntosh MA5200, McIntosh MA525, Fezz Titania, Rotel A14 to name a few) and the CM2 was the above and beyond stand-out for my ears.  I had set a $3500-ish max budget for the amp, and the price tag on the CM2 is an added bonus.

Here's the problem.  The Rogue's depth might be an issue.  I have a very well ventilated AV stand, however it has vented enclosures on front and back with an absolute max depth of 18.5 inches.  I believe the Rogue's depth with knobs and inputs is 17.5 inches (I've also seen the depth measured at 17").  Is there any way an inch of wiggle room is acceptable for long term operation?  I'm sure I can make it fit, but it will be snug.

If this won't work, one integrated amp I haven't listened to is the PrimaLuna DiaLogue.  It has a more reasonable footprint for my space.  Any opinions on how it compares sonically to the CM2 before I seek out a listen?  The main thing I've learned in this search is that I want tubes.  It's what's right for me.

I'm currently driving the LS50s with a NAD D3020 via the internal DAC (RPI3+Allo DigiOne+Volumio via Coax) and a Pro-Ject Phono Box S attached to an AT LP3 with Ortofon 2M Red.  I mix up vinyl and digital pretty evenly, with an emphasis on jazz, soul, and indie rock.  I'm satisfied with this setup, but I want to get some more power going before I upgrade the TT.  As you may be able to tell, I'm just starting to get a bit more serious about this again after many years away from audio.

Thanks all -- I've lurked this forum for a while and am constantly impressed by the quality of the advice here.
jphabc54
20 responses Add your response
jphabc54 OP
12 posts
 
Yup -- they are still in the basement space in Falls Church City and seem to be very busy.  Hopefully they'll continue to be on the upswing--they are good folks.
twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,318 posts
 
Just looked at the Command Performance AV website, which has been completely updated.  They also seem to carry a slew of brands.  Are they still in that semi-subterranean space?  Last time I was there it already seemed cramped, and they seem to be growing...
mdelrossi1
79 posts
 
Good for you. Enjoy.
I found tube rolling in the CM (non 2) showed more of the differences between the tubes than my pervious amps. 
jphabc54 OP
12 posts
 
I got the Cronus Magnum II. I thought the Prologue was great, but I enjoyed the Rogue more when listening to my preferred music styles (jazz/acoustic). I do think female vocals were a shade better on the PrimaLuna, at least on the recordings we went through. I’d like to hear the Dialogue too, but the price difference between the DiaLogue and the CMII left some wiggle room for accessories..
mdelrossi1
79 posts
 
What did you decide on?
I’ve got both a CM and a Dialogue Premium, I like the PL slightly better, but quite happy with the CM. I think the PL has a bigger and deeper soundstage, better grip on the bass,  and more detail. Both with 120 tubes, but the pre tubes are different, so…. 
Cool thing about the PL is the ability to switch between ultra linear and triode from my seat. Matched with a pair of Totem Arros, I was quite impressed with the soundstage on Roger Waters “Amused to death”.  
The CM is no slouch and it’s pretty much a coin toss. 
Just my 2¢

mdr 
jphabc54 OP
12 posts
 
After all the helpful advice, I didn't want to leave folks hanging.  I did go back for an A/B with the Rogue Cronus Magnum II and the PrimaLuna Prologue (instead of the Dialogue).  Both great sounding amps, but Benny Golson breaking in on the sax in "Moanin'" made the difference.  The PrimaLuna didn't give me the same elation that the Rogue did.

Great local shop here outside D.C. let me bring the Rogue home for a couple hours and it's going to fit great in the space (with a nice cut out in the back of the cabinet for the wires).  Headroom should be no problem as there's over 12" above it.

Ordered it a week ago.  Eagerly, eagerly awaiting its arrival.
nycjlee
286 posts
 
Nice. I when up to an Ayre AX5 Twenty.  Much more refined than the Rogue. Both are excellent amps. 
twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,318 posts
 
I went in the other direction.  The CMII knocked the Ayre AX-7 down to my second system.
nycjlee
286 posts
 
I owned a Rogue CM2 before moving to an Ayre SS amp.  Fantastic amp for it's money.  I wished I kept it for a second system, I will be building out next year.  Honestly for me, I also loved the way the Rogue looked compared to the others.   Good Luck! 
jphabc54 OP
12 posts
 
My buddy swears by his Jolida and is definitely pushing that option.  I'm bringing him along to listen to the Primaluna and Rogue this weekend.

The fact that avanti1960 provided me measurements and advice from his own kit within 20 minutes of my original post says a lot about the HIGH quality of advice here.  My sincere thanks to all of you.
wolf_garcia
6,695 posts
 
Constantly impressed by the high quality or low quality? Middle quality? I've been impressed with Jolida amps (at least the one I used for years) as a low cost alternative to other stuff…plus the Jolida dudes in MD are nice to talk to. Tubuler.
glennewdick's avatar
glennewdick
1,666 posts
 
put it on the top with at lest  4" (I would want more closer to 6" maybe 8").  reason for the top so you don't over heat the other components
jphabc54 OP
12 posts
 
Indeed!  I have a side-by-side scheduled for next weekend between the Primaluna and the Rogue.
timo62
280 posts
 
Like you mentioned , try The Primaluna Dialogue Premium integrated. You might prefer the sound over the Rogue. Always nice to have options. 
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,911 posts
 
They run really warm
but they do sound quite lovely...
you might try VTL , used might hit your price point

twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,318 posts
 
Remember, too, that you'll want to adjust bias from time to time.  Being able to look down into the well revealed when you remove the plate is helpful when trying to seat the bias-adjust tool on the individual pots.  With 4" you might be able to use a mirror and dexterity, or else slide the unit half way out.  Bias doesn't need to be checked that often; indeed, they recommend against too frequently.
jphabc54 OP
12 posts
 
Thanks -- I don't think headroom will be an issue.  We'd discussed 4 inches or so at the shop and that's easily doable.  If you think more is better, I'd welcome the advice.  The shelves inside the console height adjust pretty easily and this will take priority over the rest of the gear in there.
twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,318 posts
 
How much headroom (inches) will you have above the unit? The CMII runs pretty warm. As well as through-ventilation give the KT120s a little space above. Otherwise, can’t go wrong with CMII.
jphabc54 OP
12 posts
 
Thank you sir!  That is a great boost of confidence.  There are tons of vents in the back of my console (which is wood) and it would not be a chore to drill some more holes to prevent the need to overly bend cables.

I'm going to line up a side-by-side with the PrimaLuna at the shop next weekend just to be 100%, but otherwise I need to start shopping for a new standalone DAC..
avanti1960
1,476 posts
 
I just measured my CMII from the volume knob on the front to the point where the end of a connected interconnect cable could bend out of the way at the back and it is 18" .  If you can use hole saw etc. to create openings for the cables that would also work.  
By all means go for the CMII.  It sounds great out of the box with the LS50s.  With some thoughtful tube rolling of the 5 small signal tubes you can get it to sound better than anything on the market under $5K.  

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