That's a nice table, but lightweight suspensionless tables like that call for a good solid stable and isolated shelf to get their best. What you are seeing is micro vibrations you can neither see nor feel but amplified 8000 times are enough to make the woofers pump back and forth like that. Way too low in frequency for you to hear it, and it doesn't really hurt anything either. But if it drives you to put the table on a more isolated shelf that will definitely improve sound quality and make it a two-fer and well worth doing.
The budget solution is to put the Rega on a thick solid shelf of something like butcher block or thick MDF. Then use Nobsound springs under that. This will just about eliminate the woofer pumping while improving sound quality a lot.
The more expensive but by far superior solution is use a similar shelf but with Townshend Pods instead of Nobsound. Pods will remove a layer of harmonic resonance you never even knew was there, until it is gone. Instruments take on a much more realistic natural timbre. Bass and midrange become a lot more clear, the top end a lot more liquid. For a table as good as yours, if you can afford Pods, that is totally the way to go. |
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+1 noromance! A subsonic filer is the best solution here! All phono stages should have a low filter. Placing a TT on a heavier base will not fix this. It is inherent in LPs. It wastes amplifier power! |
jasonbourne52... A subsonic filer is the best solution here! All phono stages
should have a low filter. Placing a TT on a heavier base will not fix
this. It is inherent in LPs. It wastes amplifier power! Rumble does indeed waste amplifier, but it's not "inherent in LPs." In fact, the source of rumble is not usually the LP itself, but environmental factors. Filters are just a Band-Aid that treat the symptom - the best solution is to use proper isolation and prevent the rumble at the source.
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but it's not "inherent in LPs. Not entirely true. Rule breaking by exception. While the vast majority do not flutter my cones, I have a small number of albums that make woofers and subs do that. |
While recommending subsonic filters to get the new user a fix, it is definitely worth attempting a better mount with the springs. The Rega is likely too light to go directly on the springs but may benefit from a heavy intermediate support. |
Great info. Thanks for the links to subsonic filters @noromance . Though I haven't had any problems lately but in the past I have had problems where my subwoofer(s) go into a frenzy. Though it appears to have been just one of them which was the closest to the TT. I assumed it to be airborne feedback from the sub through the cartridge which then looped back. IOW, feedback loop. The question then is whether the subsonic filter would take care of it. OR is this the same problemthat our OP is facing?
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hleeid , Thanks for the thread. Its a good topic. |
@artemus_5 - tried moving the speakers away from the turntable.
Didn’t notice any change in the LS50s but looks like the larger drivers in the B&Ws seem a bit calmer.
@millercarbon So, I put the turntable on an old platform called ’’The Seismic Sink’’ I got from my uncle. The ’’Sink’’ is now on Audiocrast springs on the top of my equipment rack.
The room (15 x 19) is on the second floor with thick padded carpet over suspended wood floor.
Just noticed a weight imbalance among the 4 springs so will have to experiment with removing some of the individual springs from each spring unit.
Hopefully I can get around to getting things level soon and try again.
Also, my uncle gave me an old Vibraplane platform that weighs more than me! It has 3 air bladder type feet.
Is it worth the effort to get help muscling it up to replace the Seismic Sink?
I could then use the Sink under my Jolida tube integrated amp.
@noromance - have you tried either filter? quite the price difference!
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I personally have used the KAB RF1 subsonic filter. Solved my issue with rumble and even in a pretty expensive system (~60K retail), had no negative impact on sound. I have not tried another option because this one worked very well |
@hleeid,
I use the KAB rumble filter that the Cable Co sells, but I bought mine from KAB. Your Rega being lightweight is not the problem. My 40+ pound VPI Prime suffered from the same problem. After trying a 4 inch thick maple slab, springs, pods, wall shelf, etc. I bought the KAB and have zero problems now.
I have been using mine for 7 years and it is dead quiet, no noise, no hiss no nothing. I run mine through a processor loop on my preamp. It is money well spent.
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hleeid, you wouldn't. Feedback sounds like a howling noise. A cartridge that is too compliant for the tonearm can make this worse. A stiffer, less compliant cartridge might calm it down a little. If you want to know what is the environment and what is on the record simply put your stylus down on a stationary record and turn the volume up. Walk around the room watching the woofers. Jump a few times. This is the environment. What you see playing the record is a combination of the two.
@cleeds , I respectfully disagree on this one. I have a number of records on which the rumble is atrocious. All records have some rumble to an extremely variable degree from almost dead quiet to ridiculous. The worst have been done rather recently, I suspect on poorly maintained older lathes. The rumble is usually rhythmical so I know it is the lathe. One record had me convinced my bearing had gone bad.
As we have seen on a number of threads, low frequency trash can cause a lot of trouble with little cones. The LS 50s do nothing under 50 Hz so I would use a high pass filter set there and not only will the rumble stop but the speaker will get a lot cleaner and go louder safely. The other solution is to use a digital two way crossover and cross to subs at 100 Hz. MiniDSP makes a wonderful inexpensive one. Isolating a turntable is important but it will not fix this problem. This occurs with all systems but those with large woofers and subwoofers do not notice it as much unless they play really loud. Even so in a powerful full range system a high pass digital filter set a 18 Hz is a wonderful thing. You can use slopes as steep as 10th order without harm. |
@noromance - have you tried either filter? quite the price difference! Only the KAB when I had a LP12. Don't use any now. Using springs instead. |
@stereo5 Your Rega being lightweight is not the problem. My 40+ pound VPI Prime suffered from the same problem.
Only a problem weighing down the springs! |
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You need to have a subsonic filter to remove the low rumble from the table, it removes the ultra low bass that causes the rippling or overexcursion in the bass driver.
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mijostyn. @cleeds , I respectfully disagree on this one. I have a number of records on which the rumble is atrocious. All records have some rumble to an extremely variable degree from almost dead quiet to ridiculous ... If an LP is "almost dead quiet," then it does not really suffer from rumble. I agree that some records do have LF noise in varying degrees, but none of them require a rumble filter in my system, which is essentially flat in-room to a bit below 20 hZ. @mijostyn we know you rely on aggressive LF filtering in your system, which you’ve previously explained suffers from several LF issues. The strangest of them are the low frequencies that are below the bass fundamentals. You really should consider trying to isolate the causes behind those issues. I think I recall that you’re buying a new turntable or pickup arm, so perhaps you’ll get lucky and get a better result with the new gear. Rumble filters are an easy fix for a problem that can almost always be remedied at the source. |
A subsonic filter is a good thing. I've had albums 'pump' the woofers and it's a bit disconcerting. Now the filter is set at 15Hz and it is gone. LPs do vary on how much rumble.
Still as millercarbon mentions regarding the Townshend Pods, I'd say your analog setup is plenty good enough to truly benefit from very good suspension.
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@cleeds, “Rumble filters are an easy fix for a problem that can almost always be remedied at the source. “
Certainly not in my case. I tried every single thing that was suggested to me at that time by members here, nothing worked. In desperation, I bought the KAB filter and thank God it worked.
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@mijostyn - ''If you want to know what is the environment and what is on the record simply put your stylus down on a stationary record and turn the volume up. Walk around the room watching the woofers. Jump a few times. This is the environment. What you see playing the record is a combination of the two.''
Just tried this. Didn't even need to turn up the volume to see and hear it.
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@stereo5 - after removing 3 springs from each of the Audiocrast spring units to allow for compression, I noticed some audible improvement. Still see the cones jumping around though so will probably order the KAB RF1.
Glad to hear it worked out for you! |
