Revisiting Chinese Knockoff Cables

Nasaman:  Just be honest about what they are and sell them on. It would be no different than selling an imitation watch or handbag. Just clearly identify what they actually are.

nasaman

452 posts

12-27-2023 at 12:56am 

So I have bought a few fake Odins pwr cords from AliExpress more than a year ago and had my fun with them in my system.
Quick Q today is can I resell them? And what would I enter on the listing?

TIA

 

@nasaman did this question cross your mind when you were buying these Chinese produced fakes? And if it did, walk us through your thought process please…

First I replaced PCs with Odin 2 on my dac/pre and EVS amp. They were fast but in my system a tad on the sterile sound. I replaced the EVS PC with Odin 2 Gold, also for my speaker cables. These are a much better match in my SS system. Dac/pre I am using a Tekline PC (circa early 2000s) and a bargain PC between CorePower 1800 to 20 ampdedicated outlet from Amazon Audiophile HiFi Power Cord, 10AWG AC Main Supply Cable with US-C15 Female Connector, 4N OFC 99.998% 3 Cores Cable for Speaker, Subwoofer, Turntable, AMP, DAC. (Rhodium Plated 10 AWG, 1.5M / 5.0 Feet) $32! Since then I have been in search of a Odin 2 Gold coax, which I recently found on Ali-E for < $50 but also bought a Grey Knight High Fidelity OCC Silver Plated Coaxial SPDIF Subwoofer RCA TV HD Audio Cable 75 Ohm Digital Audio Decoder Cable for $46. Both should arrive early next week. Anxious to hear if these better the Odin 2 coax, which sounds really good on well recorded CDs, but on the thin side with the many that are not recorded well. Fingers crossed YMMV

FYI: I should be getting my LSA Voyager GaN 350 back in service soon. As much as I like my EVS 1200, I much prefered the Voyager. So, we'll see soon if that's still the case. If not, I'll send it to EVS for mods

HTH

So I have bought a few fake Odins pwr cords from AliExpress more than a year ago and had my fun with them in my system.
Quick Q today is can I resell them? And what would I enter on the listing?

TIA

A little off topic but is anybody aware of a decent power conditioner from Aliexpress?  

@hdm They’re absolutely shameless re-selling a $60 cable for $180 with purchase of an Equi Core (which I hear are quite nice). Wonder if there’s a knockoff Equi Core?

@tweak1 Thanks…wow aren’t those Silver WW cables $3500+.   So interesting how system dependent cables and tweaks can be.  Maybe having several tube components make an impact on these IC’s warmth sound. Who knows just very happy the way they sound!

@tksteingraber 

I started out with Odin 2 Silver ICs, coax and PCs with WW Series 8 silver speaker cables,when I replaced the WWs with Odin 2 everything got faster with darker sound stage, BUT, the warmth was gone. I replaced them with Odin 2 Gold and am very happy. I put the Odin 2 Silver on my video set up where it sounds VG

 

HTH

Thyname:

 

https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/valiant

 

vs. 

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002703438580.html?algo_pvid=50339fa4-c047-49f7-96f9-1887b596a6ce&algo_exp_id=50339fa4-c047-49f7-96f9-1887b596a6ce-7&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21CAD%2149.92%2139.93%21%21%2135.33%21%21%402101fb1916998485830495047e6d57%2112000021782946095%21sea%21CA%21701030016%21&curPageLogUid=HKF0CnkTu2Zo

 

Click the "view more" button in the Aliexpress ad as well. 

I own both the Odin 2 silver and Odin Gold IC’s on 2 different systems and they are fantastic cables.  Also use Valhalla Speaker cables and Odin Gold power cords and I have no interest in changing anytime soon.  Gone are Viborg, Morrow and DH labs cables.

Has anyone done a true comparison between these Chinese Odin Gold and the Odin 2 Silver?  Are you able to hear a difference?   I haven’t been able to hear the Gold being warmer or much if any differences between the two.

And the latter appears to have been sold by a fairly prominent Audiogon seller for the past two or three years for $350-$400 with rave reviews when it can be purchased China direct for $35-$50! 

Who is this Prominent dude? Please post links to one of his/her Audiogon listings 

 

Concur with everything hdm said above......I have numerous "Neardost" gold in my various systems, and have had zero issues (with one minor exception on one XLR IC...and the ALIEXPRESS seller immediately made it good by sending out a replacement IC).

The "Neardost" Gold do have a somewhat warm balance but not at the expense of detail, timing ( PRAT), etc. Superb value for money spent.

Cheers.....

@westcoastaudiophile   Both the Viborg and "Accuphase" Chinese power cables I have in use here have very high construction quality relative to other non-Chinese brands I've used. Both use screw down connections at male and IEC end and, as I cryo treat all cabling in my system and have for the past 20 years, I always re-tighten those screw down connections post cryo and burn in before slotting them into my system. 

I have experience only with the "Neardost" Odin Gold IC's and I have not dissected those. There's a lengthy thread at Head-Fi, however, where some have done so and found them to be fine and in fact incorporating some but not all of the Nordost geometry/spacing/style of connector (the Holo plugs are quite interesting and clearly a very "low mass" design) etc.

What I can tell you is that I've had six sets of them in use in two different systems for over a year now. They were all cryoed (so subjected to approximately -190 C for 24 hours plus) and then burned in on Audiodharma cable cooker before being used, have been connected and disconnected numerous times and have had perfect functionality in my system, just like all of the non-Chinese commercial IC's I've used in the past 45 years in this hobby.  

 

They're not just good IC's, they're great IC's and I wouldn't have been purchasing 6 pairs of Nordost Odin Gold IC's for $200,000 U.S. anyway. ;)  They're not going to be for everyone-I have a good friend that I recommended them to and he found them to be a bit too warmish, but he has what I would describe as an extremely warm system to start with. On the other hand, I have another friend with a very high end system who also sold off significantly more expensive cabling to replace it with some of the the ridiculously low priced Chinese Nordost stuff after purchasing it as a cheap experiment.

Frankly, I find some of the comments in this thread a bit comical. The idea that you would buy an audio cable (supposedly for the sake of comparison) and then say you never hooked it up to listen to it is rather bizarre to me. 

I never comment on audio forums on anything that I do not have direct listening experience with on a comparative basis, so many of the Chinese knock offs may be crap for all I know. But the Chinese Nordost Odin Gold IC's and the Accuphase 40th Anniversary power cable definitely don't fall into that category. And the latter appears to have been sold by a fairly prominent Audiogon seller for the past two or three years for $350-$400 with rave reviews when it can be purchased China direct for $35-$50! 

 

 

@hdm Chinese cables are fine if you have time and tool to make sure soldering/connection/etc are good. typically “as is” those cheap cables have poorly terminated, not properly attached etc.

These are the ones I have been using for a good while. Heck of price, too

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804492643109.html?ug_edm_item_id=3256804492643109&amp;pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%21%24150.00%21%2446.50%21%21%21%21%21%4021411f6616918616742076408d012e%2112000033451153393%21edm%21%21&amp;edm_click_module=item_detail&amp;tracelog=rowan&amp;rowan_id1=aeug_edm_56671_1_en_US_2023-08-12&amp;rowan_msg_id=0497biz_pay_after_purchase%3A0%3A0_574016709%24d876069ad72f4555bc9ec7c260fc23dd&amp;ck=in_edm_other&amp;gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Yes, most people choose products with big brand names, but at the same time there are some inexpensive products that are ignored by most people. I started out with some of the big brands, but when I was introduced to some of the products made in China, I realized that a lot of the money I was spending was completely unnecessary. I currently use EBXYA wire at work, and the price is basically $5/ft.
Link：www.ebxya.com

Yes, Odin Gold IC's are really quite good-can only imagine someone being disappointed with them if they have an overly warm system to start off with. I sold off much more expensive IC's (as in 7X-8X more expensive) and also preferred them to real Nordost Valhalla V1 in a friends system when we evaluated them there. So $100 for two IC's vs. about $4000 Cnd used for the Valhalla V1. 

Disclaimer: I did have the Odin Gold IC's cryoed and burned in on Audiodharma cable cooker. 

 

The Accuphase 40th Anniversary power cable is a steal at between $25-$45 U.S. per 1M to 2M lengths. I now have 5 of them and they've relegated Viborg 1501's to the secondary system. The Accuphase (bought mine from Audio Connector Store-it is really not identified as the Accuphase cord there for some reason) is unbelievably smooth and refined-just a really natural sounding power cord. A crazy good buy! My guess is it can compete with many of the $1K power cords out there. Hard to believe. 

 

Agree the Odin 2 and gold cables are an exceptional value.  Would like to add the flat Audiocrast (identical to the Valhalla ones) speaker cables are as well.  Better than the Odin 2 silver in my systems.  These cables are the best cables I have heard in my midfi systems.  Easily better than Mogami, Morrow MA3 ic’s and DH Labs AQ-10 speaker cables and others.  Granted…I have not experienced true high end cables which should sound better given their pricing.  I’ll Leave those to the more serious Hifi systems with deep pockets. 

it's beyond silly to suggest that all Chinese cables are average. There are plenty of products from other countries around the world that are average at best. However, if one is expecting a sub $100 cable to be great, that is a crap shoot. My personal experience with Odin 2 speaker cables, XLRs and S/PIDFs, they are exceptional value

Curious…which Valhalla cables (reg or II, speaker or other?) and which Audience style did you compare?  Also, what’s the  price of the cables?  Thanks

In comparison to higher end gear, the China cables are very, very average.  I have the China Valhalla cables and they are  OK - nowhere near the quality of the Audience cables that are my standard.

Well, seems like my curiosity wasn't quite satisfied after trying the Cardas ic.I ordered an Odin Gold II ic from the Pureffair store on AliExpress. It's been in the system playing all afternoon and I'm very very impressed already. What has changed is there's a pleasant bit of warmth without rolling off the highs or turning the bass to mush.The leading edges are softened just the slightest bit.It's a great match with the other Voodoo (silver) ics which lean towards the cool side and are wonderfully detailed. I'm already getting curious about the speaker cables.How would they fare against Voodoo scs and my current ZenWaves.I don't like that the name Odin is being used.At least they could spell it differently,Oodin or something. Maybe I can engrave made in China on the wood blocks.

After replacing the ~ $40 PC to my Audio Alchemy PS 5 (optional outboard power supply) yesterday, but still using the Pangea, the sound improved quite a bit BUT...

The sound was "over there". Thinking the Pangea just needed some hours to round out its sound I let the music play and play and play. Finally I realized it wasn't getting any closer, so I swapped it out for the fau Nordost Odin 2 S/PIDF. This was a huge leap forward in 3D and warmth, but it needed a couple hours to settle in. This morning  spun KD Lang Drag and am blown away. The music is very tube-like now.YIPPEE! The lesson learned is sometimes when swapping cables in/out one can go backwards. In this case swapping out JUST the Tekline PC between PS 5 and Core Power 1800 MkII for the $40 PC was the fly in the ointment that took me far to long to figure out

HTH

Build quality matters in audio performance. If cheap Chinese fakes sounded anywhere near OEM performance levels, why don’t the speaker and the audio equipment presenters just use the cheap fakes instead at the audio expos ? It would be a helluva marketing tool …if they actually worked well of course ,,,(oh … that pesky detail…)

OEM NORDOST ODINS EXPLAINED AND REVIEWED

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/nordost_odin.htm
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/nordost-v ... end-audio/
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/n ... din-cables


The key points extracted from the above

(1) THEY PERFORM IN A SENSATIONAL MANNER, BUT THEY ARE NOT FOR EVERYBODY AND THE REST OF THE SYSTEM IS PRESUMED TO BE IN LINE WITH THE ULTRA-HIGH-END STRATA OF THE CABLE .

You could easily spend six figures to connect all your gear with these cables, so the big question is how much improvement do they realistically provide? They’ve garnered glowing reviews in the audiophile press, but I contend that any improvements are most noticeable when the rest of the system is similarly ultra-high-end—anything less will drown the effect of the cables in other problems. But if you’ve got the audiophile itch—and the scratch to match—I’m willing to bet you can’t do better than Odin.

(2) THEIR HISTORY IS UNIQUE.

Nordost came to the field of audio cabling in a rather odd way. The company was founded in hard science -- developing and manufacturing cabling for ultra-high-precision aerospace, aviation and medical applications. Hint: think NASA Space shuttle.

Somewhere along the line a clever Jack decided that the same technology just might be the proverbial cat’s meow when applied to high-end audio. Whoever he was, he was right, and the company now makes cables for every wallet -- from the bargain-basement Best Buy shopper to the enthusiast who owns a penthouse overlooking Central Park or Malibu Beach.

(3) YES THEY ARE EXPENSIVE TO MAKE AND THUS EXPENSIVE TO BUY THEM

There are reasons for Odin’s extreme cost.
- There is a lot of very high-purity metal in these surprisingly heavy wires, and a lot of it is silver. At $50 a cable in a fake, there is zippo = nada, and likely just scrap silver coloured tin sheath over the cheapest non-OCC hardware store Cu you can find core , to deceive a buyer.
- Odin is also very hard to make. The micron-level precision tolerances necessitated by the design result in a crazy-high scrap rate. There are also nearly ten years of research and development in this product, and that investment of man hours has to be recouped.
- there is a high percentage of culls to weed out in OEM production.

TAKEAWAY :
I’m not a NORDOST cables user much less their ka-Ching $$$$ reference class NORDOST cables guy so I don’t have a horse in this race

BUT..l there is a best of breed performance reason why NORDOST VALHALLA, and especially ODIN …along with CARDAS CLEAR BEYOND , and it’s CARDAS CLEAR models , together form the largest share of the exhibitors cables choices to showcase at the audio expos….full stop.

@evank

sound “good” is a highly subjective, and biased relative term . If they stir your drink, carry on,

BUT until you actually personally audition the OEM ODINs on a high-end system, then you will witness how much the OEM ODINs totally smoke the fakes .

the fakes performance wise can fully live up to their listed $$ pricepoint. ….but they ain’t close to the ODINs or any other NORDOST model line above their very bottom entry level

The Comrades hiding from intellectual property counterfeit prosecutions in their Far East repressive proletariat have an active, and dare I say successful; illegal market capitalization on an illusion of quality on the cheap. It’s an online selling of uber-cheap build fakes ergo grossly inferior cheap quality build cables, BUT with an appearance and similarity to OEM models with a purposeful fraudulent counterfeit branding.

There’s two complimentary components to this Chinese counterfeit fake cables thread:

(1) The well travelled obvious ethics issue, or rather a minority cohort’s agnosticism to it, that fuels their run on buying illegal, cheap build inferior fakes from a repressive regime based solely on price , …. that … ultra politely… is not a good look at best …full stop

(2) The equally well travelled and Uber-obvious accepted audio philosophy is that quality build and audio performance cable requires a high quality materials / components factor along with labour . These Chinese fakes are not alone. If you go to the OEM website comments on counterfeit fakes, it highlights crap,units from Romania, Bulgaria , amd other locations in Europe too. These Chinese Ali-express fakes and all their peer fakes with cheap prices requires a matched race-to-the-bottom build quality ( and price) that is obviously an anathema to this principle.

TAKEAWAY :

(A) Let’s just rebrand and recast the counterfeit fakes to what they actually are : a very inferior mass build with cheap bottom quality components (connectors, cable, and no shielding) that are full fair audio performance value limited to their listed ad price-points.
(B) And with reference to the vast majority of audio prior posts herein on all of CAM, AGON et al, the fakes were designed, made, and sold as illegally branded units limited to legit OEM comparisons solely in appearance similarity only.

@akg_ca 

 

Yes but they still sound good!

As I often do, I think about my systems weaknesses even when Im not listening to it. Do you? Today's case in point: CHASING DOWN WEAK BASS. Where I was focused on my S/PDIF cables, it occurred to me to check what power cord I had on my Audio Alchemy PS-5 outboard power supply umbilicaled to my AA DDP-1 DAC/PRE. The PC mfg was recommended from a friend and sold on Amazon. Now in fairness to him, he said to get the copper version, but I bought the silver over copper: �Oxygen Free Copper Core】The US power cable is 10AWG Oxygen Free Single Crystal Copper Conductors with low harmonic vibration point and high damping provide optimal transmission.
�Rhodium Plated Plug】it is with US version +C15 Rhodium Plated Plug + Aluminum Alloy Shell making it less susceptible to outside interference, ensure crystal-clear HiFi effects.
�Pure Copper Shielding】the power cord is with High density Red Pure Copper Braid Shielding for low-interference signal transmission,making consistent reliability. Heck of a deal for ~$40, but...

I just swapped it out for a Tekline Audio boutique cable circa ~ 2005 @ ~ $500. Even cold, it has a lot more low end grunt. I'll give it a couple hours then rotate my Pangea Premier SE coax with my NEARdost Odin 2

TBC

The last word

The YouTube video at the bottom is a good summary read .

Read for yourself the fake dissection review following … Since the fakes are not “knockoffs” in build, so who views them as knockoff peers too in sound performance? If you do in YOUR system (extreme limitation emphasis added), Fine . No worries , and carry on sir. Each to his own. 

http://www.element-acoustics.ca/audio_visits.php?aid=41

Fake Cables Discovery 1 - counterfeit Nordost

Nordost's roots were in the Military, Medical and Aerospace industries. It gives the company access to the most advanced materials technologies known to man. Ever since the launch of the first audio products in the early 1990s, Nordost has always insisted on the highest quality, extruded FEP for use in cables' dielectric and jacketing. FEP has many advantages; primarily, it is the most consistent and best performing dielectric material available, with the exception of air; which is where micro mono-filament technology comes in. The micro mono-filament technology is a process developed by Nordost to reduce the effect of the insulation material. It uses a thread of FEP which is helically wound over each highly polished conductor. A precision FEP jacket is then extruded over the thread and the conductor. A number of proprietory methods are used in this difficult and extremely precise manufacturing technique. 

Now that we understand the construction of a genuine Nordost cable, it's simply not easy to make.  We can see that counterfeit cables DO NOT have the technology and manufacturing technique, and it is very costly to duplicate the same construction. Therefore, the counterfeit cable can only duplicate its appearance.

Couple things we can notice on these counterfeit Nordost cables:

Fake Nordost uses cheap and rubbish rubber /PVC insulator.
They don't have the manufacturing technique for proper twisting; instead they need an inner wire for the twist.
They have poor printing; sometimes misspellings. They also don't have serial number, and often no box.
They have poor soldering points, and also counterfeit connectors. 
The counterfeit can't twist conductor like Nordost, they have to use inner wire 
Counterfeit cable has poor printing, and often in time, misspelling 
This counterfeit Valhalla power cord even comes with fake Wattgate plugs. 


YouTube [Fake ODIN2 dissected vs the OEM ]

https://youtu.be/GZxnb_kxZIg

next, check out the OEM CARDAS and NORDOST quality vs counterfeit fake crap build quality differences in

http://www.element-acoustics.ca/audio_visits.php?aid=41

OEM CARDAS quality versus illegal fake crap build personified in the pic ….. anybody still think the fakes are still “knockoffs “ of the original or going to sound anywhere marginally decent or anywhere close to the OEM. It’s graphic.

 

This is a well travelled and somehow still recurring post. These Chinese listings on eBay, Ali Baba et al are not “no name knockoffs” … these are just cheap crap build and illegal counterfeit fakes that illegally use trademarked brand names and patented designs thst escaped infringement litigation only because the vendors are sourced out of a repressive regime that supports it.

They are an inferior quality crap build (and choice morally) , with their obvious illegal and unethical practices, there are a buzzilion threads out there highlighting the crap construction . So here’s just a sampler highlighting all the the junk build and why they comparatively perform poorly.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ ... ese-cables

Counterfeit cables news on the KIMBER and CARDAS websites speak volumes.These two are 100% all made in USA premium OEMs. and they have posted news of the POS build and illegal counterfeit fakes.

Common denominator in both :

- ALIBABA and ALIEXPRESS are all crap build illegal fakes , and everything shipped out of Hong Kong and China is a fake,These cheap build counterfeit fakes are produced with the cheapest materials and build quality they can get away with , ..go check out the KIMBER crap build example pics and the CARDAS last line reproduced here too.

The poster child of what a buyer can actually get:

see KIMBER website pic below in the link , about gently sanding a counterfeit fake silver KIMBER cable that reveals it to be just POS cheaply tinned cheap-as-you-can find-it hardware store cheapest available rough and poor grade copper ( no OCC) made to look like silver cables.

 

KIMBER COUNTERFEIT CABLES
https://kimber.com/counterfeits

Some things to look out for when purchasing Kimber Kable online:
- Where is it shipping from? Any Kimber product shipping from Hong Kong or China is fake. Furthermore, any Kimber product shipping across any international border is probably fake.
- Has the product been discontinued?
- Is the packaging missing or incorrect?
- ANY "Kimber Kable" from Alibaba or AliExpress is fake.
- Any items selling as "new" or "multiple available" from eBay, Audiogon, auction sites, or 3rd party marketplaces should be considered counterfeit. We cannot cover these items under our factory warranty.
- The only way to ensure that you are purchasing authentic Kimber Kable products is to buy new cables from an authorized Kimber dealer or distributor. However, we realize there will always be a market for second-hand buyers especially given that Kimber Kable products retain such a high re-sale value. This high demand for used products and the fact that Kimber Kable is a trusted brand has resulted in the unfortunate appearance of counterfeit cables. These cables will appear to be Kimber but in reality will use the poorest of materials they can get away with to fool the prospective buyer.

There is not a single Kimber product that is immune from counterfeits. Before bidding on or purchasing Kimber from a site you suspect, we ask that you contact us including a link to the auction or website that you are thinking about buying/bidding. We can often tell from who or where it is being sold if it is a legitimate Kimber Kable product or not. We will quickly look over the prospective product and let you know of what we find.

If you have experiences dealing with fake cables and have information that you feel would be valuable in helping pursue these counterfeiters, please contact us to help pass this information along.


CARDAS Counterfeit Cables
https://www.cardas.com/counterfeit

We’re proud that Cardas cables retain high resale value, even years after their production. But unfortunately, some unscrupulous opportunists prey upon unsuspecting consumers by selling counterfeits of our cables.

​Some of these fakes are remarkably well done, visually, and even come in authentic looking packaging. Others barely try, slapping "Cardas" on cables that don’t look like anything we’ve ever made.

​This is a buyer-be-ware situation. Some buyers are able to return their counterfeit products for a refund. But most are left without recourse.

​How can I avoid counterfeits?
Work at Cardas Audio for at least 10 years . Our long-term employees can usually spot a fake about as fast as a mother can recognize her own child. Assuming you don’t work here (and statistically, you probably don’t), avoid sites like eBay and AliExpress. Every month we report dozens of obvious fakes using eBay’s reporting system, and nothing ever happens. Not a single post is removed, not a single seller is sanctioned. They just don’t care. AliExpress goes one further by having a broken reporting system. They pretend to have a mechanism for reporting counterfeits, but it is littered with dead links and buttons that can’t be clicked. they REALLY don’t care.

More trustworthy sources of second hand gear are Audiogon in the US and Canuck Audio Mart in Canada. Fakes rarely show up on these sites, and when they do, they’re both quick to remove them. There are probably trustworthy audio-focused sites in other countries. If you know of one, send us a link. If it looks good to us, we’ll list it here. And of course, consider buying from a Cardas dealer. Many of our dealers take trade-ins, and might have pre-owned cables.

​Are some cables more counterfeited than others?
Yes. The two most commonly counterfeited Cardas cables are Hexlink and Clear Light.​

​Hexlink was a flagship cable from many years ago. There were many iterations, all using the word "Hexlink". It is, by far, the most faked cable. So much so that the majority of listings for Cardas Hexlink cables are fraudulent. The counterfeiters have produced more fake Hexlink than we ever made of the real thing.

​Clear Light is a more recent cable, and for whatever reason, is now quite commonly counterfeited. And whereas Hexlink fakes stand out (to us) like a sore thumb and can almost always be identified from pictures, Clear Light fakes are really well done (on the outside. Inside is garbage wire), including authentic looking packaging and documentation. Be very cautious when considering the purchase of any cable labeled as Hexlink or Clear Light.

​What sort of wire is inside counterfeit cables?​
Bad wire. We’ve taken apart many counterfeits, and what we find is just hardware-store wire, at best.​

If you can hold your nose and still buy Chinese fakes, here’s some AGON snippets

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ ... %2Bchinese
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ ... se%2Bfakes

VDH FAKES EXAMINED
https://mniec.wordpress.com/2012/06/27/ ... 102-mkiii/

MORE…
https://www.avforums.com/threads/ebay-w ... s.1218411/

All these cheap Chinese cables are NOT “knockoffs” ….they are illegal counterfeit crap build fakes …. A big distinction. It raises two complimentary issues : 

- the ethical issue of supporting illegal fakes flogged out of a repressive regime to avoid criminal prosecution for illegal trademark and/or patent infringement , and,

- without prejudice to the firmer, the quality build issue that the lion’s share are Simon crap build with no  comparison to OEM models.

“Knockoffs” are NOT illegal fakes

AGONers cannot confuse “knock-offs / replicas” with illegal counterfeit fakes. The difference between counterfeits and replica goods are huge: starting with legal versus illegal sales.

What are replica / “knockoff” goods ?

Replica goods are close copies of the original goods. Also referred to as “knockoffs”, they are acknowledged to be modelled after the original famous product. Therefore, even though they share a striking resemblance with the original goods, they are EXPRESSLY NOT passed off as being the real deal.

KEY POINT: 

(1) without consideration to the points below, let’s assume that our understanding of knockoffs requires an understanding that legit knock-offs havevnot infringed illegally on any patent or trademark registered by the original. Otherwise it would still be illegal intellectual property infringement via a vis trademark or patent , or both .intuitively 

(2) Assuming no issue with (1) above, Replica or knockoff goods are considered to be legitimate copies because they do NOT BEAR the branded product’s TRADEMARK or infringe on a patent without the holder’s approval.
So, while a replica/ Knockoff might have the same feature and functionality of a famous or branded product, it usually carries a DIFFERENT SYMBOL OR LOGO to the famous one.

As a result, they are not outrightly illegal if and only if they are ADVERTISED AS REPLICAS advertised goods created to look similar to branded items, AND WITHOUT THE OEM REGISTERED TRADEMARK, AND prominently DISCLOSED AS JUST REPLICA fakes of unknown quality build not to be assumed as the same as the real deal.

What are illegal counterfeit goods?

Counterfeit goods can be defined as ILLEGITIMATE COPIES OR IMITATIONS of a product that are maliciously intended to be taken as authentic and genuine that could deceive a person.

Simply put, counterfeit goods are illegal fake products that are made of cheap substandard quality AND ARE BEING SOLD UNDER THE NAME AND TRADEMARK OF ANOTHER BRAND WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION FROM THE BRAND OWNER. …ergo subject to IP illegal infringements and criminal prosecutions forcrepesr offenders in worldwide jurisdictions respecting the rules of law. ( Hint: China doesn’t )

As a matter of fact, trafficking in counterfeit goods is criminalized and punishable under laws in the USA and Canada and most of the Western world. 

A core feature of counterfeit goods is that there is always the malicious intent to deceive and mislead buyers into believing or agnostically accepting that the product is authentic when it is actually the exact opposite. They are passed off as the genuine product. 

Therefore, counterfeit goods as illegal fakes VIOLATE the trademark and other intellectual property rights of the owner of the authentic brand. Counterfeiting further embraces the associated elements of copying the labeling, packaging, or any other expressive features of the genuine product.

Counterfeiters thrive because the counterfeit goods are sold and advertised as low-cost originals to buyers (NOTE victims are separated from any “other” buyers for thinking they are scoring the genuine product at a stupid low price.) 

Counterfeit cable goods are made in various locations with most in China, and there is a tsunami of threads on both AUDIOGON , CAM , etc. and also on the cable manufacturer websites, about the plethora of counterfeit crap build fakes being passed off as the real deal .The AliBaba and AliExpress illegal fakes are made in China and sold out of there and appeae in other foreign jurisdictions where illegal abuse of trademark intellectual property violation thrive. 

TAKEAWAY: 

it’s a binary choice moral question in this and oft-repeated threads, whether AGON as an entire forum will express culling for fake listing ads ; and also express condemnation in its forums for obvious or admitted counterfeit illegal fake units support that simply fails to pass muster.

@tweak1 - yes, I am using a AQ Wel Signature with DBS coax digital cable w/dbs.

Quiet, neutral, and nicely detailed too. 

This thread made me really curious.I bought a pair of  gold colored ICs called "Cardas" for $27.I have no idea which Cardas the pair is trying to emulate but it does indeed sound way over the top warm and fuzzy. Two things I enjoyed were the vocals are warm and beautiful, the bass is very deep,full,and articulate.But the highest frequencies have vanished,no cymbals anymore.Some instruments are over emphasized and there's poor separation and no depth. Extremely warm and "tubey".They look and feel substantial with very nice locking RCAs. It's either going in the junk box or upstairs on the receiver in the guest room. Curiosity satisfied.

For kicks (and a waste of a little disposable income), I decided to investigate these knock-off cables.  Or at least one in particular, the AudioQuest Vodka48.  I knew I'd be throwing away money so I picked one that was fairly cheap.  I happen to own a genuine Vodka48 and so this was an easy choice to make. 

The outer box looks pretty good but I have yet to compare it to my legit box which is stored away.  I also knew right away while opening the box, this cable was phony.  It is significantly lighter in weight than any of my AQ HDMI cables.  I own (3) Carbons and a Vodka48.  After finally untying all the tie-wires, I got the cable out and it was way, way too flexible.  The real AQ cables are VERY stiff.  This faux-AQ cable feels like many of the $15 - $20 generic cables that I've bought off of Amazon for my less expensive video sources.  The outer weave on the cable is also shinier and more blue than the OG.  But overall, it looks decent though that you probably wouldn't notice unless you do a direct comparison.  The connectors are probably the most realistic looking out of everything.  They did pretty well in copying the look of the AQ jackets. 

But if anyone is looking to buy used AQ HDMI cables (which I would never recommend even if a dealer is selling them), the cable is the most obvious clue in counterfeits.  AQ cables should be VERY stiff and heavy.  These are quite pliable, light and cheap feeling.  I am not even going to hook this piece up to any equipment.

I had to find out that the cable that  was offered a furutech was a cheap terrible copy...wont do that again.Taiwan different story. 

These knock-offs are cheap enough to take apart and carefully examine, preferably under microscope or magnifier. They are not high quality smooth copper with premium insulation. Just try and see! The uneven texture of the conductors can be seen in a photo from your phone. 

@yada  the link you provided is for interconnects. Im looking for Odin Gold COAX

@middlemass  Thanks for the link. The jacketing appears much thicker. To be clear, I mean that they spool. The big question for me (as you said they lay flat) are they much better than Odin 2 Gold, which sound amazing in my system

Hi Tweak1, I think you can find several vendors of that with a topline search on AliExpress. I own this pair in 1.5 and 2 meter. 

https://shorturl.at/qQRW5

[url=https://shorturl.at/qQRW5] RCA to RCA gold[/url]

 

tweak 1:

The Valhalla 2 I purchased from RM Digital does not roll up at all. Lays flat and solid, no issues. Hope that helps. If anything, the cable is quite stiff, completely different than what you described with Blue Heaven.

 

 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804182786789.html?algo_pvid=08a757cb-4ac7-4b8f-acad-b69aba31920c&amp;algo_exp_id=08a757cb-4ac7-4b8f-acad-b69a

Ive tried to sell legitimate non-Chinese made cables but since so many Chinese clones the market for them is used Chinese clone prices. Every question was are these authentic wish I kept the receipt. I even told buyers where I bought them from and that they could contact them. But all I got was your selling fakes so I gave them to a friend. If you have costly originals the values just hit the floor. And I no longer will buy costly cables and honestly, I'm fine with it as I don't think I ever got real value from costly cables. Think that segment of the audio market was profiteering anyway. And the Chinese clones for pennies on the $ pretty much show that to be true.

Any Ali-E shoppers using COAX RCA? The only Odin 2 left in my system is the coax. I am still experiencing a slightly hot top end. It seems none of the companies make Odin Gold coax (RCA/RCA), so Im looking for a recommendation

Thanks in advance

 

@yada I was sure he referred to the ribbons. My experience was they roll up which bothers me aesthetically

I don't want to offend either of you, but I think that tweak 1 might not know what your Valhalla 2 speaker wire from RM Digital that middlemass refers to is. tweak 1 might think it is a wound wire, like some Valhalla labeled speaker wires I have seen for sale instead of a flat wire resembling the Valhalla form factor. I think they are both great.

 

 

 

@reimarc what did your DIY cables end up setting you back? 

Answers to your question:

here is the link to the site where you can order 5N silver ribbons and wires. The nice thing about this company is that you don't have to buy in bulk.

https://www.surepure.com/Silver-Sheet-Foil-Ribbon-Strip-99.999Percent-5N-Pure/a/10,2,831

I will be glad to show you pictures of my Argon-filled 1mm teflon tubes with a 0.8mm wire inside, if someone explains to me how to post images from my MacBook Air into my response window: I tried everything but failed so far.

@reimarc 

+1.  Share some pics of the Argon based cables.  I'm intrigued...

Reimarc,  Please share your source for the 5N silver wire or ribbon.  Thanks!

On a tangent here: I use neither US-made cables, nor Chinese ones, but make my own. I buy 5N silver wire or ribbon from a foundry in New Jersey for very reasonable costs, and all the other materials that go into a good IC or speaker-connect from those DIY houses, you are probably all familiar with. My next project will be re-wiring my tonearm with ultra-fine silver litz. I do not get stingy when it comes to terminals, though: I love those from Australia (ETI Research), even as they are quite expensive. I have developed my own technique, running the conductors in sealed teflon tubes that are filled with Argon gas (having a better dielectric constant then even air). You can buy a small cylinder of argon in any hobby-brew shop. I just finished a set of 1.5 meter speaker cables costing me a fraction of what is being offered on the market and reviewed in the mags we all read, but with a superior technology, that is not even commercially available. And the sound: mind-blowing! I strongly suggest that you consider making your own cables: not only can you save a bundle w/o buying "knock-offs", it's also a lot of fun to do, and there is a wealth of good how-to information out there on the web. Rather spend the real $$ on extraordinary records (I just splurged on the 45 rpm re-issue of the Bach cello suites with Janos Starker)!

Ok here’s my different take on my 2 system set ups…I have both Odin 2 silver and Odin Gold interconnects.  They both sound excellent but I can’t really tell them apart.  Settled with  a full loom of  Odin 2 Silver interconnects and Odin 2 ethernet on my 2 channel system with KimberKable 12TC Chinese copy speaker cables.  On my Home Theatre/2 ch system I use Odin gold interconnects, Odin 2 silver ethernet, Valhalla identical flat speaker wire branded Audiocrast.  I have Odin 2 silver speakers cables and they sounded very good but the Valhalla are much improved.  However, they do take 75-100 hours of use to get past their initial brightness.  I have not tried the Odin Gold speaker cables due to my interconnect comparison results.  I Also cover my speaker wire with black flex braid sleeves to make them look nicer and not stand out.

 I have ordered a second pair of the Audiocrast (Valhalla) speaker cables for my 2 channel system to compare/replace the Kimber Cable.  

tweak 1:

 

What would there be to accuse me of? Having an opinion? I agree that the Gold are better than the Odin 2's. That was my experience also. And the Valhalla 2 is even better. TO MY EARS. YMMV.

Interesting that @middleman preferred the Valhalla 2 ribbons to the Odin Gold. I am not accusing him of anything, but I am floored by how much better the Gold is compared to the Odin IIs. I had real Nordost Blue Heaven ribbons decades ago and the rolling up of the ribbons annoyed me to no end

Anyway, clearly as good as these Ali-E cables are, Odin Gold or Valhalla IIs, they are outstanding value. YMMV as to which better fits your system

FYI the Odin IIs sound much better in my TV set up with OS Audio GCC 250 and Swan Diva 6.1s

musiclover1...

 

Yes, that is correct. Was pointing out that I’m basically using a full loom of Gold products at this point and couldn’t be happier. Was just curious about trying the flat cable and am very pleased with it. Might switch back to the Gold after a few months.