Resolving CD Transports Crowd Sourcing

I have no dog in this fight but I am curious if either of you have "bent CDs"?  I can't say that I have a one. And, I  wonder how they would come to a conclusion that owners had noise problems because of "bent CDs".

@facten 

Good question/fair point.

Charles

Just an FYI follow-up to my previous follow-up- 

On Monday, I responded to Pro-Ject support with the following question: "With the redesign, can a CD Box user now have confidence that the problems rendering the transport inoperable have now been eliminated?"

It's now Friday, and I haven't gotten a response. 

@wharfy 

That's disappointing.

Charles

The Shanling ET3 has an oversampling chip. Does it automatically upsample all information or can you switch it on/off?

FYI-I received an email reply from Pro-Ject 😀 They asked for the serial number of my CD Box, indicating there were "historical problems" with certain units before "the updates."  We shall see.....

At the moment, I am really enjoying the ARC CD6SE that is on loan. While not quite as resolving and tuneful as the Pro-Ject CD Box, it is tuneful, has a wonderful tone, and has synergy with my other ARC components. In all, when working, the CD Box is a wonderful transport because it achieves a balance of resolution and musicality. 

Additionally, the DAC in the CD6SE player is also top notch. I'm running an Aurender music streamer/server through it, via USB, and it sounds terrific. 

David

@wharfy 

 

In all, when working, the CD Box is a wonderful transport because it achieves a balance of resolution and musicality

That balance of resolution and musicality is a spot on assessment. Precisely my initial and lasting/ongoing impression of the RS2T. I'm glad that the ARC CD6 SE is working out so well for you. 

FYI-I received one more response from Pro-Ject.

"If it stopped reading all CDs the problem was probably the switch that is pressed when you close the lid. While this switch is mechanically speaking the same as always, there were some improvements to making it more reliable.

 A few software issues were also addressed that prevented CDs from being read. But as I said, I think most likely you had a switch that was mechanically not fully pressed, or always depressed."

So, if the issues are corrected, how would one find out, without purchasing and hoping you got a good one? 

What are everyone's thoughts? 

David

Does anyone received the Schiit URD transport?

So, if the issues are corrected, how would one find out, without purchasing and hoping you got a good one? 

What are everyone's thoughts? 

David,

I’d only buy from a retailer who has a clearly stated return policy. It’d be ideal to compare in your system with the ARC CD6 SE you’re enjoying currently.

Charles

@alexberger I believe the URD will be re-released in Mid November ...

"So, if the issues are corrected, how would one find out, without purchasing and hoping you got a good one? "

If it were me before I took another chance ( I wouldn't) I'd call the dealer I bought it from and ask what their present take on the quality/returns is. I'd also call a couple of other dealers and ask the same. I would preface my question with the fact that I have had to return 2 of them already. I would not discuss with them the responses received from Project as to not prejudice their responses. Compare and contrast for yourself the dealer(s)' and Project's responses; and then decide whether or not you want to take another chance.

@facten 

Good advice. I understand why you wouldn't. I also understand why David is contemplating another try. He's lived with it and has experienced its brilliant sound quality. 

Charles

@charles1dad - I shouldn’t have interjected "I wouldn’t" into the comment as what I would do under the same circumstance that he encountered doesn’t matter. The rest I still recommend considering before shelling funds out. Project’s responses seem to downplay and minimize the issues versus responding with a more customer centric view of responsibility and defined assurance of  problem resolution.

@facten 

As a very happy owner of the RS2T I totally have no issue with your injected comment. Pro-Ject has a quality control problem that they have to acknowledge and correct. Hopefully they will commit to this. They obviously had a bad product run at some point. 
 

I purchase my RS2T in November 2021 and have had zero problems. This seems to be the case with other owners who purchased around that same period. So something went wrong at some point with subsequent production of this transport. I’ve been an advocate of the RS2T on this forum solely based upon my outcome with it. 
 

Pro-Ject needs to figure out how to get the quality control and reliability to match their achievements with its superb sound quality.

Charles

@charles1dad 

@facten 

Thanks for the timely and common sense advice. I called the dealer from whom I purchased my CD Boxes. His advised against because there is still too high failure rate. He won't be taking orders for it in the foreseeable future. I followed up with a second phone call to another audio dealer who advised against it, also. Oh well, that settles it.....

Onward and upward. Waiting for the Urd and Teac 701T to be released. Am going to give them attentive auditions.

David

@wharfy  - Sorry that you didn't get a thumbs up from them, but glad that you at least got their honest responses.

@wharfy 

Onward and upward. Waiting for the Urd and Teac 701T to be released. Am going to give them attentive auditions

Agreed!!

Pro-Ject RS2T is a home run sonically but let down by questionable management actions/decisions. Onward indeed. David I am looking forward to your listening impressions of the Schitt and the TEAC transports. Sonically the ARC CD6 SE and RS2T have set the bar high.

Charles

https://imgur.com/a/on2stS3

Just a follow up. So I have in house the Jay Audio CDT MK3 and their new Clock 2.

Head to head against the Teac VRDS and clock (as transports). I’ve listened to the Jay in 24bit/176kHz upsampling and native 16bit/44.1kHz of the Teac and these two transports are excellent, but honestly the Jay can sound ever so slightly etched with certain high frequency sounds. Vocals more present and up front with the Jay, bass more weighted and palpable with the Teac, both extremely detailed. Maybe ever so slightly more depth with the Jay do to vocals being more forward, but the Teac is just that good. Maybe even better considering there isn’t anything that sounds strident on it. My speakers are the Focal Sopra 3 and Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC with Riviera Levante IA.

Teac VRDS 701 CDP and CG-10 Clock coming in at $3,800 + $1,800, Jay CDT3 MK3 with Clock 2 at $5,000 + $700. So both essentially the same price.

I honestly have to give my overall nod to the Teac yet again, however the Jay Clock-2 is a better value. If you want to try a diffenr clock with the Teac (cheaper) keep in mind you need a 50ohm clock and cabling to make it all work, which is harder to come by, then say a 75ohm clock.

Just a recap

Teac Pros
Tray load
DAC, CDT, Digital Inputs, Preamp
Better low frequency control and weight
Trigger functions
Better value

Jay Pros:
Tank build
Better Visibility for the screen
Upsampling (best with R2R or smoother more rolled off DAC IMO)
More vocal presence

https://imgur.com/a/on2stS3

JAY CDTMK3 and TEAC VRDS 701 https://imgur.com/a/on2stS3

Again been playing duplicate CD's and just sinking and volume matching them both switching between the Teac and Jay. They’re both excellent, but I’m gonna keep the Teac.

@ja_kub_sz 

Congratulations!!!

Appreciate your time and effort to share your listening comparisons.

Charles

@ja_kub_sz 

Thanks for the comparisons. I'm auditioning the TEAC next week. It will be fun to compare listening notes. The balanced and detailed presentation of the TEAC is something I find appealing. I have a question-why did you get the CG-10 Clock? 

David

Looks Like the TEAC has the capability to win favour, the reports certainly are not to askew from the reports I copied/pasted about the VRDS 701.

I look forward, along with others, to the further descriptions to come of it being experienced in use.

@wharfy 

I'm auditioning the TEAC next week. It will be fun to compare listening notes. The balanced and detailed presentation of the TEAC is something I find appealing.

David you have very good ears and music taste. Additionally you’ve had excellent CD transports in your home audio system for reference. Your listening impressions of the TEAC  will be enlightening.

Charles

The Link is showing a Diagram of the VRDS on the 701

https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/53308410414/

wharfy

If you like the house sound of CD6SE, the CD9 is even better with a killer DAC to boot.

Happy Listening!

@wharfy I feel it better renders high frequency detail and transients. More immediate start and stop while still preserving space in the sound stage. I don't feel it's subtle either. Still good alone, but I wanted the clock from the get go.

@jafant 

+1 ARC CD9 / SE

ARC CD9/SE

Unless you actually purchase an extra transport from Audio Research's supposed stash of extra discontinued transports, I would find buying an expensive discontinued CD player without surety of repair a fools errand.

I find the theory that ARC discontinued this CD player because the manufacturer of the transport quit producing the the transport fishy as why didn't ARC just purchase enough supply of the transports before the manufacturer discontinued them to continue producing the CD player?

There is nothing fishy here. My dealer had a close relationship with owner at the time and heard about this straight from him. ( my friend is very savvy in manufacturing and has good EQ, so he was not being deceived.

Audio Research keeps a stock of parts to service discontinued products. Many very very old products can still be serviced. It is one of the many reasons to own ARC products.

I own a Ref CD9SE and have no worries at all. Also, had I not owned it when it was discontinued, I would have unhesitatingly bought one. Now, if it was made by a lessor company, I might hesitate.

@ghdprentice

You’re among many knowledgeable ARC lovers. But for me, and quoting myself, to calm all doubts of repairability other than hearsay, before I purchased the unit.

Unless you actually purchase an extra transport from Audio Research’s supposed stash of extra discontinued transports, I would find buying an expensive discontinued CD player without surety of repair a fools errand.

By the way, a CD player or transport are really pretty much the only items I would hesitate to buy used or a discontinued model.

Hi.  Since some months I have the Rotel DT6000. First I used it as CD Player only. But in parallel I tested my Streamer a Volumio Rivo with the Rotel as DAC in comparison to Chord 2Qute which I used for some other tests before. I preferred the Rotel over the Chord.
I am reading a lot in different forums but I never heard about someone else having this combination.

I have Rotel RA6000 Amp with the DT6000 CD/DAC a Volumio Rivo Streamer with an Farad 3 linear power supply. All of that with B&W 703 S3.

I like it a lot.

Comments?

I continue to enjoy the Audiolab 9000CDT, very smooth operation (TEAC drive) and wonderful sound, all at a great price. The Atoll DR200 Signature is also a good bet.

Greetings!

I have spent the weekend listening to the Schiit Urd. While it isn’t fully broken in, these are my impressions. For the price it is a terrific CD transport. The Phillips based mechanism presents a deep and wide soundstage. Instruments can be located in space because the unit is very quiet via both AES and USB connections. How were they able to do this at this price point?

As a digital "traffic controller" for my Aurender N200 it was "ok". Even with AES connections, which is one of the features that interested me, I surprisingly lost resolution through the unit, into my Musetec DAC005. Anyone have an idea why?

Now, compared to the ARC REF CD6SE, I am currently using (Thanks Michael!!), this is what I am hearing. Again, the Urd is still burning in. First, I have ARC components and the synergy between the REF CD is obvious. With that said, most of what the Urd does, the REF CD6SE does better, to my ears. The Urd does have a more forward soundstage and the sound in my system, with my ProAcs is bigger and slightly less focused.

I think the Urd is really good, and I have some more time with it before I need to return it, so we shall see.

David

@wharfy 

Thanks you for your updated listening impressions. I knew that the ARC CD6 SE would set the bar high. It does appear that the Schitt presents a very good high value proposition which is good to know.

Charles 

@charles1dad 

I'm enjoying the opportunity to audition transports/CD players. My extended loan of the ARC CD6SE is finite (beginning of December) because the owner purchased an Aqua HiFi La Diva M2 CD Transport (an awesome transport, out of my price range), and is going to sell the ARC. 

While I'm looking forward to, and waiting for inventory, to audition the TEAC 701T, I'm going to give the Denon, DCD-D110 110th Anniversary Edition SACD/CD player a listen. The Denon has features I look for-powerful transformers, reduced vibration in both the CD mechanism and circuit boards, along with shorter signal paths. The specs say it weighs in at over 40 lbs!

David 

@wharfy 

David,

I have read very fine things about that particular Denon component. A company that established and that size has the resources to build really special audio components when they want to. I look forward to your listening impressions of it.

Charles

@wharfy I would very much appreciate it if you could post any listening impressions your friend may communicate to you regarding the La Diva Mk. 2. My current transport is now 20 years old (and still performing flawlessly) but I know that time is not on my side. I have the Accustic Arts Drive 1 and their latest reference transport uses the much loved SU CD Pro 8 drive, as does the La Diva, but it’s twice the price of the Aqua so if I have to make a change, by default, the Aqua will be first on my list.

@acresverde 

I have the Accustic Arts Drive 1 and their latest reference transport uses the much loved SU CD Pro 8 drive, as does the La Diva, but it’s twice the price of the Aqua so if I have to make a change, by default, the Aqua will be first on my list.

The upper tier European manufacturers do seem smitten with the Stream Unlimited CD PRO-8   drive mechanism. It's also favored by Audionet and Gryphon for their CD trabsports. I'm certain that you'd be very happy with the Aqua HiFi La Diva transport.

Charles

@charles1dad    I fully expect I would be thrilled with the La Diva. The biggest quandary for me is, knowing that I can get a refurbed CD Pro 2 like the one in my AA drive from ENCO, is the CD Pro 8 that much better to justify the 20x cost to get the Aqua. I do expect it will sound better but <$500 also sounds pretty good compared to approx. $9000.

@acresverde 
If I may interject….it’s just not the CD drive, it’s a sum of all parts. Why does a components sounds different, better or worse. It’s the overall implementation of tech in a component that makes us either love or dislike its sound.

Your price comparison is unfair, what is the worth of $500 drive by itself?

@acresverde

The biggest quandary for me is, knowing that I can get a refurbed CD Pro 2 like the one in my AA drive from ENCO, is the CD Pro 8 that much better to justify the 20x cost to get the Aqua. I do expect it will sound better but <$500 also sounds pretty good compared to approx. $9000

When you put it in those terms I understand your dilemma. Certainly the discontinued Philips CD Pro 2 is a CD drive unit that has stood the test of time and was utilized in numerous top shelf transports. You have enjoyed its quality for 20 years so obviously you know its capabilities.

On the other hand I don’t believe it is a coincidence that The Stream Unlimited CD PRO-8 has been chosen by top level manufacturers for their upper tier CD transports. If budget is a major criteria then certainly a refurbished Phillips CD is very viable and prudent.

Charles

@lalitk

You are correct. The CD drive units do not operate in isolation. They are a major contributor to the overall sound one ultimately hears. One has to judge the entire package as all aspects of the component matter. It is possible I could be placing too much emphasis/importance on the CD drive unit/mechanism.

My outlook/perspective could be a bit biased for that reason. I have the Pro-Ject RS2T transport that utilizes the Stream Unlimited drive and the sound quality is freaking excellent!!

Charles

Hi-Fi plus just posted a review on Aqua La Diva M2 transport, 

https://hifiplus.com/articles/aqua-acoustic-quality-la-diva-m2-cd-transport/?goal=0_ff6dfd0295-72f7c28bb2-162304461&amp;mc_cid=72f7c28bb2&amp;mc_eid=3e4d1f2edd

Another review of the La Diva M2. Interesting comparison with the excellent Antipodes K50 and Grimm MU-1 music streamers.

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/cd-player-reviews/aqua-la-diva-m2/
Charles

@lalitk    My point in referencing the refurbed CD Pro 2 was that for less than $500 I could buy it and have it replace the current drive in my AA Drive 1 if the original drive were to crap out. Therefore, unless the Aqua smokes the fully functional AA Drive 1, the value proposition is squarely in the corner of the AA. I do suspect the Aqua will perform at a higher level but it will have to be more substantial than just "incremental" for this retired car salesman to consider it.

I had the opportunity to hear the Denon DCD-A110 Anniversary Edition SACD/CD Player last night. It was in a system with a Musical Fidelity M6SI integrated amp, and Spendor A4 speakers. 

Physically, the CD player is a 40 lb beast--nicely machine gun metal/graphite grey all metal exterior, including the CD drawer. It also has a great remote. Outputs are both balanced and RCA.  I did not hear the unit via XLR because the owner has many SACDs and they only play via the RCA jacks. The sound characteristics of the CD player are detailed and not clinical or harsh because it has a warm sound. It projects a bold, but not fatiguing sound.

For me, while the warm sound is appealing, it comes at the expense of imaging and soundstage. Beyond the first layer of instruments and vocals there is a noticeable drop-off, or recess in drums, bass and music that is in the background. So, it loses some front-to-back three dimensionality as a result. Nonetheless, I liked it, but would not own one.

I'm still waiting for the opportunity to hear the TEAC 701T. BUT, the clock is ticking....my loaner goes up for sale on 12/1, and I have first dibs. The owner says purchasing it, and getting a replacement CDPro2, just in case, from ARC ($500 with S/H) is a no brainer with my ARC components.

@wharfy 

The owner says purchasing it, and getting a replacement CDPro2, just in case, from ARC ($500 with S/H) is a no brainer with my ARC components.

Sounds like a good plan. You have heard it in your system and confirmed it is a fantastic fit.

Charles