DCM Time Windows..1 good
Kef ref..103 or 104... both good
Klipsch KG 4 ...very good , especially with tubes
Spica TC 50... with a sub - best
Recommendations for Vintage Speakers
I’m currently looking to put together a vintage system and am wondering what a good pair of full range, floor standing speakers would be. They would be powered by a Pioneer SX-1250. I listen to a very wide range of music, a lot of live Grateful Dead, Classic Rock, Metal, But also enjoy Jazz and even a little Big Band music once in a while. Thanks for your help!
90 responses Add your response
You need to take a refresher course in reading comp 101 pronto. You are confusing me with the other dude cleeds who was responding to my original statement. Quick recap, cleeds @geoffkait ... for live music there is no absolute sound since all auditoriums, symphony halls, night clubs, etc. sound different. AND - depending on where one is sitting or standing in a given venue - the sound will be different.But whatever that sound is, of live unamplified music, that is the absolute sound. And for that matter, many French horns, or violas, or trombones sound different from their brethren. That doesn’t mean each doesn’t create its own absolute sound. |
@geoffkait **** Sorry, dude. I did not say that. I said the opposite. Cheers! **** It was a direct quote. You said it. ****But whatever that sound is, of live unamplified music, that is the absolute sound.**** Scroll up and verify. Who are you - Donald Trump? Denying that you said what we all can see you said??? |
@geoffkait ****But whatever that sound is, of live unamplified music, that is the absolute sound.**** Bingo. When you're familiar with sound of live unamplified music, you understand the absolute nature of it. They can vary the setting, the recording set-up, the staging... doesn't matter. When you hear it through recorded playback and it hits the spot, that's the absolute sound. |
I have had a vintage system in my bedroom since it was not a vintage system. I have run lots of different (some new at the time) vintage speakers thru it, Advent, Infinity, AR, Klipsch, ADS, etc. My favorite, and still in that system are ADS after over 35 years. I have the L710. I have heard some of the larger floor standers from that era as well. I don't think you can go wrong with them. |
geoffkait
... for live music there is no absolute sound since all auditoriums, symphony halls, night clubs, etc. sound different. AND - depending on where one is sitting or standing in a given venue - the sound will be different.But whatever that sound is, of live unamplified music, that is the absolute sound. And for that matter, many French horns, or violas, or trombones sound different from their brethren. That doesn't mean each doesn't create its own absolute sound. In addition, many home audio systems actually have better sound than many live performances.Quite so! That's one of the rewards of being an audiophile. |
keegiam56 @geoffkait "There is no absolute sound." It’s sad you believe this. There is indeed an absolute sound. It’s a simple and important concept. The absolute sound is what we experience when we hear live music. It is nirvana for music lovers and thus the ultimate goal for audiophiles seeking faithful reproduction of that experience. >>>>Not sure I go along with your detective work, pal. Even for live music there is no absolute sound since all auditoriums, symphony halls, night clubs, etc. sound different. AND - depending on where one is sitting or standing in a given venue - the sound will be different. In addition, many home audio systems actually have better sound than many live performances. |
@geoffkait "There is no absolute sound." It's sad you believe this. There is indeed an absolute sound. It's a simple and important concept. The absolute sound is what we experience when we hear live music. It is nirvana for music lovers and thus the ultimate goal for audiophiles seeking faithful reproduction of that experience. |
Here is good interview of Andrew Jones about it. It is no absolute accuracy: https://youtu.be/4t-wdP4gISI |
As for the Advents versus the top-of-the-line speakers, we can only say that you may prefer them to a pair of KLH Nines or Altec A-7s, or you may not. By all the accepted standard of evaluation (excepting sensitivity, where the Altecs excel), the Advents are as accurate reproducers of sound as any top-line system we have heard. But we must face the fact that accuracy is no guarantee of personal satisfaction with a loudspeaker, and that many people value transparency above lack of coloration and find that a closer or more distant-sounding speaker conveys a more convincing illusion of realism than one that is completely neutral. We feel, though, that listeners who have no particular preference for a certain aspect of or kind of reproduced sound will be as happy with the Advents as with anything costing up to five times as much. Maybe even more so. |
Rogers Studio 1 was a great sounding speaker , you needed good power behind them, I never had the opportunity to hear the 1a which was supposed to be superior? I was in audio sales during that time and got to hear a lot of great speakers and electronics during the late 70's and early 80's before getting out of the trade. I miss those days.. didn't make much money but had a great time experiencing the trends at that time. |
Haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been suggested already, but how about being inspired by the recommendations of Jeff Day: I should mention that while you can go balls-out-crazy building exotic versions of high-performance Altec's, you can also get great results at affordable prices too. https://jeffsplace.positive-feedback.com/altec-dreams-and-what-sweet-dreams-they-are/ |
Hi , my .02 . Hi currently have Klipsch Heresy II’s and JBL 4312a’s . Both are between Lousy and Mediocre. I bought them on a Vintage kick , like you’re doing . The Jbl ‘s Sound pretty decent with about a hundred tube watts per Chanel . One member suggest the Klipsch KLF’s , nice speakers if you brace the cabinets and improve the crossovers . A pair of Tannoys would be fabulous, but expensive. My suggestion would be Bob Crites Cornscalla’s . Large ported cabinet , 15” woofer , and a retro design with a makeover. You could have them in a dark walnut stain with dark blue grill covers . Or do them in a light maple with tan retro tweed cloth grills , or no grills . They would match up well with your amp . BTW , I tried a Sansui 7070, 9090, and a Modwright KWI 200 with both the Heresy’s and the JBL ‘s . My little Klipsch KG 1.5’a sounded sweeter than both ! I recently gave my Marantz 2223 and the KG’s along with a Schiit Bifrost to my son . And the Sansui 7070 and the Heresy’s go to my daughter next month for her new condo . They’re happy , I’m happy . Now I just need to part with the 4312’s and the 26” Sound Anchor stands I had built . Cheers , Mike . |
From your listening tastes, it appears you want a combination of "Punch" and delicacy. RnR bass, with clean extended treble. Not an easy accomplishment using vintage speakers. A budget was not mentioned. I would recommend: Larger floorstanding ADS JBL L110, L112. L150, L220, L300 Polk 10B AR 11, AR12, AR91, AR92, AR58s ("s" has a dome midrange, other versions do not). I would stay away from AR3/3/5 series as you will likely burn out the tweeter when listening at realistic levels. Altec VOT or derivative (if you have the space) |
A buddy of mine runs a pair of late 70's KEF Calinda loudspeakers being driven by a Marantz 8B power amp. This is absolutely magical. More than any other loudspeaker I've heard. the Calinda is very revealing of the sonic character of your amp. Were I to get into a pair of them (figure $500/pair or less), I'd get a VTA ST-70 to drive them. It's at least as good as a Marantz 8B and a whole lot cheaper. Available either pre-built or in kit form. |
I've owned: Acoustat, Audiostatic, Polk, Altec A7, Altec 15, Klipsch Heresy, Green Mountain Audio, KEF, Zu, ADS 410/710, Linn Kaber, Triangle Zerius (GREAT speaker), Totem (many, liked most), many single-driver speakers, and many more I can't recall at the moment. Several months ago, I purchased a set of JBL L112 speakers in great shape and replaced most of the crossover parts with identical values. Aside from having to move the speakers around in my small room (8X14) to work out some bass issues, I now have the most engaging speakers I have ever owned. They aren't just loud - they have a fullness and impact that I have been seeking since I started the hobby. These sound more "live" - most of the other speakers have sounded "good". I get to work around live music quite a bit, and these JBLs possess that intangible quality of just sounding right. When a vocalist holds a note and has an emotional crack - this speaker conveys that kind of emotion in spades. It allows me to forget about "critical" listening so I can just enjoy the music. I have heard the L100 (unmodified "crossover"), and they are not similar at all. The L112 has a proper crossover. The other half of the equation is my updated 30 watt Harman Kardon 430 receiver. Many people like to dismiss vintage equipment, especially receivers, as nice but not up to the quality of current equipment. I would invite those people to hear this setup playing Larkin Poe's "Come on In My Kitchen" Jam In the Van performance from Youtube. The production quality is amazing, and they are performing for you in the room. I have owned Naim, Audio Research, Belles, Rogue Audio, Cary, Audio Note, etc. I'm not overstating the quality of the HK receiver - it's the real deal. If you keep your eye out, a system (speakers/receiver) can be assembled for about $1,200-1,500. I have compared the HK to Sansui, Pioneer, Marantz, AR, and other receivers, and I can't find one that matches the mighty 430. They are easy to service with off the shelf parts, and any competent tech should be able to fix any issues and keep it going for another 20 years. The FM tuner sounds excellent too. I do use a Schiit outboard phono preamp to improve upon the internal pre and run it through the tape monitor. Looking for a DAC for computer audio? Topping D10 from Amazon or Parts Express and less than $100. I prefer this to both an Auralic and the Chord Qutest I had in house. Good luck on your search! |
Many great suggestions. To me - after 55 pairs of vintage speakers and many from the above lists - ADS stands out. The 1090/1290 is the sweet spot with the 1090 having less cabinet resonance. If you can get a pair of 1590 likely you are done with your search. The 910 and 1530 would be my next choice. All these have rubber surrounds so unless abused no need for re-foam. Also, if you ever switch to tubes you need modest (20-30wpc) to get really great sound out of the 1090/1290 - i was driving those with 18 wpm Shindo EL84 amp. The KEF 104 is also great provided that it is properly reformed and recapped (applies to most vintage speakers). Good luck. |
I also owned the Pioneer SX1250. I bought it at the PX at a cost of less than $600.00! After going through my Bose phase, I bought a pair of Polk Model 10A's. The receiver is long gone ( I also bought the black version of it. I can't remember the model number). I'm still using the Polks on my home theater set up. I've never replaced a driver on them yet! That's reason enough to consider them. Good luck. Joe |
I also listen to mostly live Dead and have assembled several vintage audio systems for this purpose. I really like the way they sound on acoustic suspension speakers, particularly the larger bookshelf or floorstanding models from ADS or Acoustic Research such as ADS L-710, L-810, L1230, L1530, AR-10pi, & AR-11, or AR-9. The treble is a little wooly on dried-out ferrofluid AR tweeters; I think the ADS have aged better. That said, my vintage speaker churn ended with the JBL L300. The 15” woofers really thump and Garcia’s leads shimmer through the midrange horns. Good luck in your quest! |
My two my cents... I have owned dozens of speakers from planars to bookshelf to full range floorstanders. I have a pair of 20 year old Monitor Audio GR60s in my second system that I will never get rid of. If I did, someone would be buying the best used speakers I can recommend (for your listening tastes, anyway). Do I use them for jazz? No. My LFT-8bs take care of that thank you very much. But several thousands of Phish shows have been played by the stalwart MA GR60 beasts (with a 20 year rotation of separates) and they have never let me down when it comes to rock slam. Built like tanks. 4 ohm amp, 8 ohm amp? No issues. Tube or solid state? I’ve used both and they respond like loyal soldiers to either. Hard to find that model, as they were the flagships when purchased, but you may want to consider any of the Monitor Audio family of floorstanders. Full range beasts. Are they too “bright” for those with tiniitis or refined tastes? Maybe. They are for me if I want to hear horn music. But they will do your Dead shows full justice. Grab a pair of used MA gold from two or more generations ago and you won’t be disappointed. |
Here are a few of my favourites not in order. I will say that if what you choose has not been recapped it should be done to get the full potential from them Celestion ditton line Ditton 33 if you can find them. Ditton 44 Ditton 66 With Ditton's you Must recap them if original. It makes a huge difference. AR9 are Awsome now quite pricey AR 3a same thing. AR 4x are decent for the money IMF TLS 50 and 80 are awsome. EPI 100's ok for the money JBL early L line 100's are cool but screechy and tiresome. Crossover upgrades can fix this. Great punchy bottom end on all the L line. 19, 26, 36, 46, 50 Apparently L112 are very very good. Yamaha NS 690 and 1000 are quite good. I have 690's KLH model 6 not the 17 are the ones you want IMHO. Had both Snell Type E. Close to $6000.00 Audio Note ANE., seriously. Tannoy Gold's in various cabinets Boston A400 Infinity Kappa 8 and 9. Had 8's. You need to mod the crossover on the 8's so they don't kill your amp. Paradigm 9se and 90p monitors. Both good speakers. Most of the monitor line are considered quite good. All suggestions should be under $1000.00 eccept the Tannoy's As I mentioned earlier.. I recapped most of them and put them in front of quality gear so I beleive I heard them at or close to their best. Good luck |
The Gales do sound big but the low end is very tight and textured and most especially rhythmical rather than hefty.Hefty for their size I suppose because they have a two 8 inch woofers in a compact box.I have always wondered if part of the reason for them sounding so good is that they have a very high ratio of driver area to box surface area which should mean relatively less box colouration -which is exactly how they sound.Very very few modern speakers can match that.Perhaps some of the Magicos and the Dynaudio Confidence C1. |
Gale 401's were very musical , I remember hearing those at a winter CES show .. They had the chrome tops and bottoms, laying sideways on some chrome stands .. sorry i did not get the chance to spend any length of time with them, but If i remember correctly they had some hefty low end. Can't remember what they were powering them with. |
I have owned most of the speakers suggested and some of them are very good but I think on balance Gale 401 are the best of the lot.Most of all they do not sound like boxes,are very refined yet also very dynamic and are great on a wide range of music. and sound very clean and composed even at high volume.Not so good on classical music for some reason but very good on everything else. Toshiba SS 30 speakers circa 1960s also deserve a mention.Fabulous sounding things. |
There are some very good vintage speakers and several of them have been suggested but the suggested JBL Century L100 is not one of them.Probably the worst sounding speaker I have owned.No crossover on the woofer so you get a heap of cone break up interfering with the rest and the tweeters sound terrible.Some people describe it as sizzle but it more like the sound of an arc welder. |
I miss some of the older speakers with all of their flaws and colorations.. ..many just sounded musical.. These speakers all got to me thru a song or two that I heard thru them which gave me goose bumps at the time. I used to sell high end audio gear in the late 70's very early 80's before moving on. Altec Model 19 Jackson Browne The load out-Stay Kef 104-AB .. Elton John Love song DCM Time window Fleetwood Mac Gold Dust Woman. Acoustat Model 3's Christopher Cross Sailing Dahlquist DQ 10'S Doors Riders on the Storm. Snell Type A.. Rolling Stones Slave . Rogers Studio 1 Supertramp Even in the Quietest Moments ADS 2030 The Police Shadows in the rain. Infinity Rs 4.5 The Police Don't stand so Close to Me. Quad ES -63 Joni Mitchell Court and Spark Acoustat Model 4.. 10cc I'm not in love Dahlquist DQM 9 Steely Dan .. Hey Nineteen B&W 801.... Bruce Cockburn Wondering where the lions are Kef ADS 910 Led Zepplin In the Evening Acoustat 2+2 James Taylor Something in the way she moves thanks for the memories |
Depends upon your ROOM more than anything else (except your wallet, of course!). Try a small set of newer Magneplanars and see what you think about the clarity of listening to the actual recorded music instead of the "horny" sound of horns or the booming of speakers like Advents, JBL's, etc., which were great in the day but have been out-engineered easily by today's designers (no disrespect to Henry Kloss, clearly an audio icon). Whatever you do, LISTEN TO IT IN YOUR ROOM first.Weird, I don't have any bass boom with my Advents and they're significantly more detailed than the 1.7is I owned. Magnepans are not very detailed/clear speakers in the grand scheme of things - why there exists the phrase, "Maggie mist." |
