Recommendations for MM Phono ~ Tube or Solid State

@scar972 

In this hobby, keeping an open mind and vetting a component objectively in your system is all that matters! 

@lalitk the SUT I experimented with is a modestly priced vintage Japanese unit, Fidelity Research FRT-4, it's been mentioned here quite a few times. Not saying it's the best or anything but I'm impressed with how it plays with my cartridges and I'd like to hear a few more SUT's in the future.

@lewm this is a newly formed bias so it's not etched in stone, I'm always open to learning and being impressed by other ideas.

@rauliruegas impressed that you knew my King/Cello phono is a Colangelo-Levinson design, kudos! I'm actually experimenting with the MM stage of a Manley Chinook at the moment and not the King/Cello. Amongst the high-gain phono stages I've had here are Tom Evans the Groove, Pass Labs XP-15, Linn Linto, King/Cello, Manley Chinook and a few lower priced ones.  

Scar, now that you’ve provided more detail in your past history, I would say you have about as much data as many of us have to support our convictions. At some point one wants to stop experimenting and move on to other audio dilemmas. But after I found that some of my most closely guarded biases did not hold up to new experiences, my motto has become never say never.

“this SUT”
@scar972 

What is the brand name / model of your SUT ? 

Dear @scar972 : : Angelo and Levinson designed in those old times Cello electronics and both never were to good phono designers . Cello/Levinson amplifiers is other matter and very good ones.

The FR vintage SUT was and is only an average/mediocre unit from those times when in those times Denon, Audio Technica, Entré, Sony or Tachnics and others were at the top and I owned almost but the top Technics as afact I still own what for me is the best SUT ever Denon 1000, I own too an Entré and other Denon 340.

You own a just first rate room/system but that could not means that you are rigth about the phono/Sut because IMHO you are not and I agree with @lewm in this specific regards. Yes, that’s what you like and I think that you have to listen to a top today active high gain SS phonolinepreamp  and compare too vs live MUSIC seated at near field .position.

R.

@lewm I know it sounds that way but I’ve had several high gain phono stages in here over the last 15 years, they do sound different from each other and some are better than other for sure. But it took just one SUT to make me realize that it provided something I’ve never experienced before with any of my previous phono stages, the top end has never been as open and airy, and the noise floor is so low it’s almost nonexistent. I know it’s still not enough to make a universal statement but that’s how I’m carrying on going forward. Maybe I just got lucky that this SUT has a few loading options that plays well with my cartridges and also multiple inputs  for multiple tonearms.

@psf4972

Thank you for your recommendation. I have heard of Abbas DAC’s, nothing but high praises all around, I will definitely keep in mind when I am ready to pull the trigger.

@moonwatcher - Thank you!

@j-wall I agree, Buying Allnic on used market is a good value. What took me by surprise is their very linear sound despite of all the tubes, H-6500 sound nothing like a tube component. I think it’s intentional by design as designer doesn’t want end users to hear any coloration which kinda makes sense. I am honestly spoiled by Shindo Labs, nothing else has come close to sounding that heavenly as my Monbrison preamp.

@scar972

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am hoping to hear next level performance by inserting a properly matched SUT. It’s a work in progress:-) 

Thank you for your recommendation for Andros. It’s reasonably priced and uses my favorite tubes, NOS Telefunken or Mullard’s comes to mind to further tweak the sound. 

scar972, Your thinking is a good example of faulty audiophile thinking.  Because you bought one SUT and compared it (evidently) to one high gain phono stage, you are drawing a universal conclusion that SUTs are superior to high gain phono stages (or at least that's how it comes across).  Suffice to say you like your new SUT better than your old high gain phono stage.  That's fine.

My recent experience with SUT is similar to that of Steve Guttenberg. I was so impressed with how much improvement a modestly priced SUT brought to my system that I questioned why I lived without one for the last fifteen years. SUT is the way to go if you're using a LOMC. A simple MM stage such as a Zesto Andros Spirit would do the trick.

More to the point, if you are investing in an outboard SUT, you can make the case that you don't need the H6500, because in paying for the H6500, you are buying its built in SUTs, which will become superfluous. The words that Raul quoted led me, and probably also Raul, to believe you had already purchased an H6500.  What you say here suggests you borrowed one, albeit you seemed very happy with it.  In my opinion, there is no trick to making a very good sounding MM phono stage these days. As a result there are many good choices, and if you select a reputable one, you almost cannot go wrong, except where your personal taste comes into play.  And for personal taste, you ought not to be relying upon the opinions of a wide variety of audiophiles who own a wide variety of systems and who may hear LPs quite differently from the way you hear LPs.  This may mean just take a shot at something.  If you prefer the Accuphase phono section to the H6500 (and it's not entirely clear that you do feel that way), that suggests you may prefer a solid state device.  Beyond that, all bets are off.

Might want to check out Steve Guttenberg's experience with using SUTs.  Sounds (no pun intended) like an interesting pursuit. Have fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tAPAPmfscc&t=28s

What changed?
@lewm

Let me clarify further, after extensive listening sessions with H-6500, I couldn’t justify its price. While H-6500 sounded good, it was not substantially better than my phono board in Accuphase Integrated. The phono board in Accuphase Integrated is pretty darn good and I am now using it as my benchmark. If I am investing in an outboard phono, it should handily beat my current phono and justify the extra spend, right?

With SUT on the way, I wanted to accumulate MM phono recommendations to pity against my Accuphase phono. Again, SUT is a consideration spend and it would be prudent to try this option atleast with one or more outboard MM phono to make a proper assessment. Another reason for phono search is to accommodate my 2nd tonearm which will be used with a mono or stereo cart. You may know, I am getting my plinth built from Woodsong with dual arm boards.

I may end up with two phono’s to accommodate two arms or one that gives me everything I am looking for…I am hoping to accomplish this task with help of knowledgeable members like yourself.

@lewm @lalitk is correct on the resale value of Allnic. I've had 3 units all purchased used, less than 5 years old purchased for a 1/3 of what they go for new. I'm a fan of Allnic, but the resell value of their products isn't good. I would only purchase used. Their gear is built like a tank so buyers have that in their favor. Their equipment is great though!

As Raul pointed out, you seemed delighted with the H6500 barely more than a month ago. What changed? If you can figure that out, it might help in making your next purchase, more than accumulating subjective opinions voiced by strangers on audiophile websites.

@lalitk I also heard an Allnic phono stage w/ separate regulated psu in my system and it gave less than my more modest dual mono Croft. You might check Abbas Phono stages (I recently ordered a second; dual mono w/ inbuilt MC transformer). A number of owners find these stages render nearly everything you could want in music, as do his DACs. There’s more info to weigh on WBF.

“Do Allnic components sell used at a bigger discount off the retail cost, compared to other major high end brands?”
@lewm 

That’s my assessment! In any case, Allnic phono sound and synergy with rest of my components did not exceed my expectations. 

What do the sales data say?  Do Allnic components sell used at a bigger discount off the retail cost, compared to other major high end brands?

“Why do you say Allnic has poor resale value?”

@lewm

My earlier comment was based on sales data off USAM.

@larryi

I wouldn’t consider a SUT that is not specifically wound for my Bordeaux cartridge. Anything less than optimal in this application would be a worthless endeavor.

@drewdawg999 

Thank you for your recommendation. I will check it out! 

Classic Audio MM Pro seems to check all the boxes. 

Dear @lalitk  : Just in september you posted this:

" My modest but carefully chosen collection of recordings shined through the foursome of 301, 3P, Bordeaux and H-6500. They allowed music to simply breathe, quiet passages were intimate and louder sections just as impactful without any distortion. The tonal balance was also impeccable, ensuring that no frequency range dominates or feels lacking, bass was tight and controlled, revealing subtle details and nuances that enhances our emotional connection to the music. "

What changes your mind of thinking in this short time ?  For that post you was " impressed " with that chain in your system.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTOTIONS,

R.

Is the EMIA specifically wound for your Etsuro Bordeaux cartridge?  I believe that is one of the reasons to buy their SUT.  I've heard systems with their SUT transformer, but, I have no way to assess the particular contribution of the SUT (the overall system sounded good).  

Why do you say Allnic has poor resale value?  Not based on my perusal of the for sale ads here. I guess it depends upon how you define "poor".

@noromance

I wasn’t impressed by Allnic H-6500. Surprisingly, my phono board in Accuphase Integrated sounded just as good as H-6500. Not sure, how much better H-7000 would be. Another observation, Allnic seems to have a very poor resale which somewhat deters me to consider buying new from dealer.

@kennyc

I am seeking suggestions on MM phono ahead of SUT. I am pretty much set on my choice as far as SUT. My dealer is sending over EMIA copper SUT to try out with my existing phono. In any case case, I will check out WBF. Thanks!

the WBF search advice is good

@lalitk - you may want to ask this on WBF where they may have deeper knowledge of the SUT differences, I only know EMIA David Slagle custom makes some of the best SUTs, and is on my shortlist if I go SUTs which would require my purchasing a “voltage” phono stage in addition to my “current” phono. 

Endgame Allnic H-7000?