Reasonable high end interconnects: without breaking the bank

Someone finally got me to try better cables and my sound quality jumped. It jumped again when I spent $500 on used $1,200 cables and jumped again at $900 for used $2,200 cables

Actually, "Someone finally got me to try different cables and my sound quality changed. It changed again when I spent $500 on used $1,200 cables and changed again at $900 for used $2,200 cables."

The perception as an improvement is confirmation bias.

ieales

The perception as an improvement is confirmation bias.

That’s a common knee-jerk reaction from someone who fancies himself a thoughtful cynic. But the explanation clearly doesn’t apply in this instance, where the listener had been convinced that - logically - there was no value in better cables:

the Mogami argument is perfect logic and caused me to outfit with them when I could have afforded better cables. Taking that and other “logical” approachs kept me in mid-fi for longer than I wished.

The perception as an improvement is confirmation bias.

That’s very true. If you don’t know what you’re listening to. Besides, if confirmation bias actually improves the sound I’ll take two. 🤗

@cleeds 
There is value in better cables that are well mated to a system.

McManus gave no inkling as to manner of improvement, but just that he had scored savings purchasing used. Did he audition anything or just grab a deal? What specific problem was he trying to solve? You and I may disagree completely with his choices.

There is very close to ZERO relationship between cost and performance.

Cables must match the system, room and user preferences - assuming the user is has some credibility and skill.

Vertere d-fi - used them against my expensive lavardin and were waaay better

Excellent bang for the buck and has equaled or bettered many of my interconnects that list for $600-$1800.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9g055-toto-tungsten-rca-interconnects-by-bogdan-audio-promotion...
I am not associated with the builder of this RCA or Balanced interconnect, just a happy customer.

I’d recommend Zu Audio’s new stuff.. Actually their Event mk2 interconnects.. They sound great to me.. Supports all the detail your system can handle.. Very easy to handle.. They have a no questions ask return policy but I bet you’ll keep them.. Not a fan of silver plated copper wire so no Mission line

Did we ever get a budget?  I like Jena labs copper also,. I used  their least expensive speaker cables with excellent results. The cheapest of all I have liked are Pheonix Gold.

A little surprised to see no Grover Huffman recommendations here.  Reasonably priced.  The IC’s are very low impedance.  I’m using a pair of Empress IC’s for phono to preamp and am very pleased.  (Van den Hul Black Beauty SPX on ET II arm with VPI HW19 MK IV table to an original CAT SL-1 preamp.). Grover takes the risk out by offering a 60 day period to return for any reason.

I’ve been using grannyring’s balanced ICs and am happy with them.
They offer a nice balance between detail and warmth.
You could give these a try, they’re reasonably priced so risk is low.

I recently purchased a pair of his Schroeder method ICs but haven’t been able to try them yet because my system is torn down due to some construction.

IEALES
"There is very close to ZERO relationship between cost and performance. Cables must match the system, room and user preferences - assuming the user is has some credibility and skill."

To clarify, I believe that you saying to your ears, there is no significant relationship between cost and performance in cables. I don't think you mean that everyone on this post, except those with the cheapest cables, is not competent to evaluate their system properly but that you are. 

The people that hear a difference don't necessarily lack credibility and skill they just hear something that you do not.

@mcmanus 

they just hear something that you do not

You have it backwards.

Having been a Grammy nominated professional recording engineer, consultant to Monster Cable, Ibanez, principal engineer for several electronic firms, Chief of Analogue Design for AMS-Neve, I, and those who hired me, think my hearing is just fine. Sadly, not what it once was.

Over 5 decades, I have evaluated cables and if they differ electrically, they probably differ sonically. Whether they are a +/- depends on the gear they interface.

Unless one sits in the recording studio, swapping out cables, mics, preamps, compressors and EQ to get what's in the booth on tape and/or records live acoustic music and/or regularly attends live acoustic performances, then one has no frame of reference, just an opinion based on preference.

I recently auditioned some $12k vs $6k interconnect cables [same manuf] in a well setup dealer BW 800 D3 system. All McIntosh electronics. A really superb system. Swapping the $6k cable for the $12k totally destroyed the excellent presentation. Vocals became boxy, the image split, the hi-hat sand-papery and the harmonics would rip your ears off.

Some may prefer the $12k, but they didn't record it and thus haven't a clue of how it should sound. I did and it sucked!

What I would take from the demo is that performance is inversely proportional to $.

Cables are an interface between two devices and dynamically interact with those devices and cannot be evaluated other than in situ. Ultimately their effects are transduced by the loudspeaker. If cable colorations compliment the speaker flaws, great. If they don't, no amount of DoReMi will change that.

As point of reference, my speaker cables cost about 8x my speakers. I bought them because they are well designed and based on solid engineering principles. They got me closer than anything else I tried.

ieales

Some may prefer the $12k, but they didn’t record it and thus haven’t a clue of how it should sound. I did and it sucked!

What I would take from the demo is that performance is inversely proportional to $.

ieales (yes, same one)

As point of reference, my speaker cables cost about 8x my speakers.

Making a total shambles of whatever shred of logic there may have been in the first bit of advice.

What I would take from this is that advice quality is inversely proportional to bragging about professional experience.

@millercarbon
My speaker cables could have cost 1/8th my speakers. My point was that I am not averse to expensive product per se, if it is better.

Other than owning a HiFi, what are most posters creds? Take a scan through some of the virtual systems here. https://systems.audiogon.com/
No doubt, some are stunning, but then so is a taser. Some are so badly set up and in appallingly bad environments as to be hopeless. Anyone with an uncovered TV or equipment stack between their HiFi mains please 'fess up. And go away.

I ignored the topic "List your System Ingredients: Listed most to least expensive, by list price or price paid" because cost is irrelevant. It is possible to purchase the very best [read most expensive] into an unlistenable system.

It is possible the $12K cables were just not as good as the $6K cables.  It is also possible that the $12K cables exposed deeper issues with the Mac and B&W gear, or the original recording, or that the more expensive cables were just a poor match for that particular gear or weren’t broken in yet.  In any case, your story just reinforces that cables sound different, and that it is important to try different cables in your system to get the right match for you and the kind of music that you prefer listening to.

PS - Full disclosure, I often cover my TV monitor when listening, but not always.

"Anyone with an uncovered TV or equipment stack between their HiFi mains please 'fess up. And go away."


I have been reading this same idea for many years, and my own experience doesn't support it. It does sound like it would make sense, but I have tried it in my system both ways, and not heard a difference. There is no discontinuity in the staging, and centered voices sound very focused. I don't know much of anything about acoustics, but it seems to me that it shouldn't make much of a difference because the projected output from each of the speakers is aimed at the listener and sums at the listener's ears; so at least with some types of speakers, what is between them shouldn't have much effect. I listen to horn speakers and they have a more controlled directivity, but I have experienced the same with direct radiating cone speakers.
I can't comment on having a TV on the wall between speakers because I don't have a TV in the listening room. I wonder how many people who feel this way about racks between speakers have actually tried it. I will admit that it could have a psychological effect, looking at all of the gear between the speakers.  

The effect was first demonstrated to me in a control room decades ago. When mixing, packing blanket were hung in front of the glass.

Large screen TVs are reflectors and resonators, albeit becoming less so with ever more integrated electronics and increased power efficiency.

For those with undamped large flat rigid surfaces between the mains, enlist the help of a couple of pals to lift a packing blanket while listening blindfolded in a darkened room. If you can hear the difference, there is work to do.

I and others I know have done this blind testing and notice a difference in terms of more a continuous and coherent soundstage with a blanket on a 55” screen.  In some rooms there seems to be slightly better top to bottom coherence across frequencies as well.  For critical listening, I prefer to have a blanket up, and prefer double layer fleece blanket to wool.  Have not tried a packing blanket yet.  YMMV.

kn