Raven vs primaluna integrated amplifiers

As is his tube amp, his power center, his projector and most likely his oppo. Guy’s a clown, has no original thoughts of his own just parrots what he hears in the right wing echo chamber. Absolute worst poster on this site full stop. 

"With PL made in China you have no idea who did what. When there is a problem who do you even deal with? Your dealer? Or PL? Or China? "

Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio started PL with Herman van den Dungen in 2000. One would fully expect you deal with Kevin.

" the fact everything in China, every business, every dollar, is ultimately under the control of the CCP, which means every dollar that goes to China supports the CCP policy of unrestricted warfare against every nation on Earth. Make pretend none of that is going on. Set all that aside. "

Get off the soap box, it  hasn't stopped you from buying and repeatedly urging others to buy the Chinese made Nobsound springs, Schumann resonators.

To be fair, from what I've heard, Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio stands behind PL just as well. We can be patriotic and support our own manufacturers (I try my best), but really there's no need to justify this by putting down an equally good sounding product made in another country. I buy American whenever possible, not because I dislike China, but because I want to support the little guy in my own country.

With the Raven you’re limiting your power tube options, so you should do some research re the 6L6. Also the PL 200 weighs 5 pounds more, which i assume is in the transformers, and there is for a reason other than to increase shipping weight I would guess. And 44 wpc vs 20. 

One thing to watch out for in the Forum is product opinion runs hot then cold. The Raven is currently hot, a lot of which is based on the bash China baloney. If you prefer not to buy Chinese based on politics or trade issues that makes sense...but build quality? That’s nuts.  PL quality control is world class (for its price point).

Personally i think your better off buying used than either of these, and I’ve heard them both.  

but using the "it’s made in China" reasoning is dumb.

Set aside the genocide, forced organ transplants, and the fact everything in China, every business, every dollar, is ultimately under the control of the CCP, which means every dollar that goes to China supports the CCP policy of unrestricted warfare against every nation on Earth. Make pretend none of that is going on. Set all that aside.

We are still left with the fact that China has no respect for the rule of law. They steal intellectual property. They steal technology. We all know they do. Look how many threads there are about Chinese ripoffs of amps using technology stolen and copied from others. Technology developed at great cost by people in countries with the rule of law, they steal and copy shamelessly. To the extent this happens it robs the rightful developers of technology of their just rewards.

Then on top of that something else we all know, not all solder joints are created equal. A great solder joint takes great skill. Either that or great facilities. If you want it done at Raven level you are not going to find it in China, where fast and cheap is the order of the day. Face it, no one builds anything in China for quality. China is for fast and cheap. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

Finally, on top of everything else, with PL you are looking at the difference between a corporate product and a personal product. With PL made in China you have no idea who did what. When there is a problem who do you even deal with? Your dealer? Or PL? Or China? When you have a problem with Raven there is no doubt. This is Dave Thompsons product. Dave Thompson stands behind it.

You can dismiss all this if you want. But please don’t call it dumb. That would be what psychologists call projecting.

I listened to a Raven Audio Osprey and Primaluna Dialog Premium HP a few months ago on the same day, same equipment. Truth be told they're more similar than different. Both have excellent dynamics as far as tube amps go, very clear sound, and you get the holographic three dimensional sound without being overly lush or warm. So from an SQ perspective, it's a wash. Now when it comes to looks, the Raven Audio looks much better to me, and yes I know its very subjective.

For me the choice was clear. If the price and sound quality are on par, why not spend your money to support a local business (Dave and James of Raven are fellow Texans). Because Raven bypasses the middleman, a better portion of the cost goes towards parts and craftsmanship. I eventually bought the Blackhawk MK3 and have enjoyed it very much in the 3 months that I've owned it. BTW, don't let the 20 watts output fool you. It plays as loud, but with more refinement and control, than my previous amp, the 100 watt Cronus Magnum II. Having said that, let's be real -- it's not a giant killer. It does very well within it's own price bracket but no, it's not going to better a tube amp costing $10k. I briefly had an Audio Research GSi75 in the house and compared it to the Blackhawk. Sorry, not even close! I ended up selling it for other reasons but still miss it to date.

@tablejockey,
You’re correct, this stuff is pure subjectivity and how could it be otherwise? At the OP’s budget point he has viable options and certainly that includes Raven Audio and Prima Luna (Both definitely have their fan base). OP is seeking suggestions thus my bringing the Luxman to his attention.

It’s good to have awareness as to what is available within a targeted price point. Then it’s a matter of individual due diligence. No consensus will ever be reached in regard to what’s the best, too subjective 😀.
Charles

I'm as excited as I can get (at this stage of life)! My Nighthawk arrives next Thursday!! Whoop whoop!

These are the worst subject threads:
PL vs whoever.

No doubt the USA Raven is good stuff without hearing it. As a PL owner however, I can say the Dialogue series or newer will easily drive those XT6's. I've heard those and the XT8's extensively when they came out.

You can pick apart and do the Raven vs PL audiophool spec thing, but if you're going to just enjoy listening to music the PL won't disappoint. Of course its a subjective thing, but using the "it's made in China" reasoning is dumb. 

YOUR TANNOYS ARE MADE IN CHINA! A good chance the majority of your other gear is also, deny if you choose.

There is plenty of PL praise here and elsewhere. If you can find a dialogue series used, it will do the deed.

I'd definitely recommend the Raven as others have stated above. Excellent reviews etc.

Hi James,
I am not familiar with your specific Tannoy model (Some Tannoys are easier speaker loads than others). Room size and listening volumes?
I would give consideration to the Luxman SQ-N 150, a push-pull el 84 integrated amplifier. It is a very good quality Japanese design/built with good quality parts and output transformers. It is within your stated price range. 
Charles

James in my opinion, the raven integrated amps are some of the best amps in the world for the money. First, they are built like a tank and look like a Ferrari. Two, they put out way more power than is actually recorded.  Third, they have some of the rarest and finest tubes found around the world. Fourth, their customer service is second to none.
I owned the Raven reflection MK2.  I loved it. Please do yourself a favor and just call Dave Thomson who is one of the owners and let him just talk to you about amplifiers and sound.  You will be sold.  

Lastly they have a money back guarantee. What else can you ask for.  They will easily drive your Tannoy speakers with ease and sound that you will not forget.  Good Luck!

Thank you both for your input, I have yet to hear anything negative about raven audio I might have to try out there 45 day at home trial 

I have yet to hear one. But I DYODD to a considerable degree and have been narrowed down to a Raven for a long time now. 

Before spending that kind of money I dig into it paying attention to every little detail. Like, did you notice they alternate brands of resistors and types of solder throughout the amp? Why? Listen to the video and see. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcd76DZmbdY&t=304s

Search around for willgolf he has owned and heard a number of them. Experienced listeners like willgolf are a big factor in having narrowed the field down to this one amp.

Also yes, made in the USA. Even better: Made in Texas! 😁

Watch the Raven video of their build vs Chinese.
You'll be sold.