Prima Luna evo300 owners

For any PL, swapping the two 12AU7 in the middle with better tubes results in the most significant improvement, but there are audible benefits in upgrading them all. I myself have used matching aftermarket tubes for the two in the middle and upgraded the other four with a matching quad of another brand. I’ve also swapped all six out. I’ve never used three types of 12AU7 in a single unit. If anyone does, it should be done in mirrored fashion from the middle. 

@blisshifi ,

Thanks, bliss.

I've got to tell you, I really enjoy your posts. They're polite, informative, insightful and always interesting to read. Kudos, man!

@thecarpathian Thank you, that comment really just made my day. I just love to help and want to keep this community going strong.

If there’s ever I can do to help you from a gear purchase perspective, never hesitate to get in touch. :)

Juan Charvet

blisshifi.com

@thecarpathian I mean to ask as well, have you upgraded the power tubes?

Sorry, Juan.

Didn't mean to give the impression I own the PL.

I am interested in it, and I have a pretty extensive inventory of 12au7's and their variants. Hence my curiosity.

Gotcha - should you have any other questions on it, let me know. I’ve have a lot of experience with them and know their strengths and weaknesses well. 

I use all NOS tubes and mix. On the two center tubes I use some radiotechnique 12AU7 manufactured in 1956, the  other four are General Electric 6189W. BTW, I agree with Bliss comments

@blisshifi,

I like that you don’t try to sell your brands here, unlike Audio Troy. It is refreshing and honest.  Keep up the comments, always a wealth of information. 

@stereo5 Thank you for the kind words. My goal is to keep being an audiophile and serve the community first and hope my business will be successful as a result. It hasn't been easy considering I have limited capital and only a handful of brands that I work with, but the journey has been incredibly rewarding to date especially because I've become a bigger part of the community. It's been good talking with you here and there on threads even before my username changed a few months back (used to be thiefoflight).

Once in a while I may recommend some brands that I carry on the threads, but even then, I make it a point to try to be as objective as I can and point out observations to other gear it has been compared to, and I always want to be empathetic to the needs of the person who is trying to advance beyond where they are. I'd feel horrible pushing something that I didn't think was truly was the right fit. And for the moments that I do recommend those brands, I am 100% honest whether I am a dealer for it or not.

Thanks again for your advocacy and hope we can continue our support for each other!

@thecarpathian , I have the Evo 300 power amp and use NOS Tung-Sol black glass 12au7s for the center positions, and a quad of NOS RCA cleartops for the other 4 positions. I also tried my NOS Mullards in the center and there wasn't much of a difference in the sound.

I can say I've been very happy with the Evo 300 both in sound quality and in ease of use for a tube amp. 

 

Thank you for the info @yakbob , and the other guys who've responded so far.

@blisshifi ,

Juan, can you delve a bit into what you feel is the EVO's biggest strengths and weaknesses?

Thanks!

I'd say the biggest weakness for me has been tube related...specifically the KT-150s which in my case half of all have gone noisy within the span of a few months. It seems design and quality control is a problem with this tube. They sound great if you can find a working set, but at today's prices, I'd recommend skipping them and opting for the Gold Lion KT-88 which offers 90% of the sound quality with way more reliability.

Strengths include great build quality, dead silent operation, and ease of ownership. This is my fourth tube amp, and I never think about it, it just works and provides fantastic sound (driving Tannoy Legacy Ardens).

I've had solid state amps from Pass, McCormick, McIntosh, Jeff Rowland and Conrad Johnson. For a pair of efficient speakers, the Evo provides just as much enjoyment at more reasonable pricing. 

Like McIntosh, Primaluna draws a lot of vocal detractors since they sell in larger numbers and thus have a larger target on their back. You won't score any Fonzie points with the self appointed gatekeepers.

 

 

@thecarpathian I would agree with most of what @yakbob says, though I’ve never really had issues with KT-150s being noisy or dying. Below are my additions.

Overall, the EVO series is a very modern tube amp design and sound. This means that the amp does not have typical coloration that one might have with a tube amp. It does have some bloom, especially depending on tube types used, but one would never mistake it for being as colored as a classic SET amp. I actually found it quite difficult to get a lot of bloom with the Primaluna. This is neither a strength or weakness, though some may perceive it that way - it really just depends on what suits you best. 

With good quality tubes, I find the EVO series to come quite close to Audio Research, but for much less, especially if your speakers are easy to drive. The amps are dynamic, with decent warmth and good harmonics, again, without being too colored. I do prefer the sonic and build quality of Audio Research which I will get to later.

The build quality is very good, and it’s versatility in terms of tube rolling options are very fun and make the amp worth playing around with for years. Also, with the ability to switch between ultra linear and triode modes, you can experiment the sound you like best for particular recordings.  It is a fantastic value for its price given the entire package. 

As for weaknesses, I do think there are a few. First, I don’t think the amp delivers optimal current to control and drive speakers like endgame amplifiers do. Combined with the 300 putting out a max of 50wpc, which results in less headroom, it can produce a sound that is softer in some areas and harder in others and ultimately sound less resolving and organic than desired. I do like the 400 better in this regard because of the power and headroom and like an octet of good EL34 or 6CA7 vs a quad of KT150. Also, I’ve never gotten Primaluna to deliver the clarity and decay in the upper treble to depict the air, space and depth as I have in other endgame amplifiers. This is where I find Audio Research to excel, both with the current delivery, control, clarity/holography, and organic delivery. But here we are comparing a $4-5K integrated amp to one double to triple its price, and when I mention other endgame amps, I am also referring to ones that fall in the $20-40K range, so I am being very critical in this sense.

I guess the last weakness is that for the PL to sound its best, you should plan to spend upwards of $1000-1500 on tubes. The stock tubes are really, really mediocre. 

With all this in mind, I still highly recommend the PL for its price point. It is a very versatile amp of very good quality, especially for its price point. I’ve owned them many times and still have one in possession for demonstration purposes against other amps. I am not a dealer for them, and I don’t plan to be. Most of the amps I sell cost much more, but if I do find someone who only wants to invest $6K or less on a tube amp that is not low-powered, I don’t hesitate to have them consider PL.

Hopefully you find this helpful. The big question for you is, what speakers are you using, and why the 300 vs the 400? 

 

It would be a good idea for the OP to study the PL website. It has plenty of information about the amps. There is more detailed info on tube use.

Hopefully, the OP s recognizes he is being given subjective opinion i.e.-

"I guess the last weakness is that for the PL to sound its best, you should plan to spend upwards of $1000-1500 on tubes. The stock tubes are really, really mediocre."

Everyone's setup-from the room/speakers and gear will make the presentation different.

The stock tubes can be just fine to some ears. That statement is false.  

Besides the power tubes,the 2 innermost(L/R)gain tubes are really the only one's worth considering spending more cash on, for any noticeable sonic change-IMO.

Different brand/topology/possibly more money, is what you're looking at- if you're comparing feature/benefit and build quality against the PL.

@tablejockey - What you are saying does not negate my statement, and none of my statements are false. Yes, that one in particular is subjective. I don’t disagree when you say “the stock tubes can be just fine to some ears”, but I do think upgrading the tubes enable the amp to perform at its best. I don’t think many, if any, would disagree with that statement. Most would also agree that the stock tubes do sound mediocre compared to quality aftermarket ones. It does not mean that the amp sounds bad with the stock tubes, only that it sounds better with many others aside from the stock.

Thank you all for the information and advice!

My "false" statement should have read MISLEADING.

It is MISLEADING the OP to state the PL is an amp you buy, only if you spend another $1500 worth of tubes.

As mentioned, the OP should spend time at the PL site to get informed.

 

 

@tablejockey I have highly regarded and appreciated your posts and responses over the years, but you are misconstruing my statements above. I also did not say “it’s only an amp you buy if you spend on tubes.” I am very favorable towards the PL above, and all I say is “You should plan to spend”.

This investment is typically made, but it doesn’t mean that it is incurred up front. The fact of the matter is that most PL owners end up investing in NOS or aftermarket tubes for the unit. Perhaps they purchase it first and live with it for a few months or even years. But then, they do end up buying tubes for it that in total increase the total investment into the amplifier.

The $1,000-1,500 amount I believe is fairly on point because it covers a gamut:

• whether someone buys a 300 with four output tubes or a 400 with eight output tubes
• whether only two 12AU7 or all six are replaced
• whether an owner tries one tube type like KT88 and wants to try aftermarket EL34 after

… and so on.

The unit is a gateway to tube rolling, and I just wanted to inform the OP of that, that most succumb to rolling to get it to sound its best, and what it might cost overall. I had no other intent other than to prep the OP for this.

 

 

@blisshifi

Thank you very much for your helpful comments regarding Primaluna. Having sold my vintage but much upgraded tube separates, I keep searching for a contemporary or at least 21st century integrated tube amp which might have at least a modicum of the euphonic. I suspect that Primaluna is not that amp.

 

@ps I think the Primaluna is definitely in the “modern tube amp” camp. It might have a touch of euphonic compared to a 100% neutral solid state amplifier. It can have a bit more warmth than say an ARC Ref 150 SE, but it’s not as euphonic as say a Luxman KT-88 amp. It is very versatile, and rolling other tubes like Gold Lion KT-88 or Psvane EL34PH, combined with NOS 12AU7 like Brimar CV4003 or Mullard CV4003 can make it more euphonic.

I understated the Psvane EL34PH above, as they do add a wonderful sense of romanticism and bloom while keeping wondering speed and definition at the frequency extremes they are my favorite readily-available EL34 tubes today, but they run upwards of $450-500 per quad  

FWIW, if you are not looking for high power, I am a new dealer for Margules, and I have the last new Margules I-240 integrated amplifier coming my way. At 25wpc, it might be just what you are looking for. It is getting glowing reviews and was a contender for best in show at the recent Pacific Audio Fest just a few weeks ago. Google it and see what reviews come up and PM me if interested in discussing more.