Swampwalker - 6L6 type tubes all have a "missing" 6th pin and some 5881's I've seen have a missing 1st pin as well. Normal. |
Swampwalker - This may seem pretty basic but this "problem" sounds like the wrong input is selected via the knob on the right front of the preamp. You could be hearing cross talk between the active input and the currently selected input.
Check that you do not have the RCA cables from your EMC1 plugged into the wrong RCA inputs on the Syrah - that ones you used to have them plugged into. Double-check.
Also, if your Syrah has balanced output, the RCA/XLR switch in the back between the RCA outputs and the XLR outputs could be flipped to the middle or toward the XLR make sure it is toward whatever output you use... RCA or XLR.
If all connections and input selections are correct, try turning off the preamp, unscrewing the DC power cord from both the power supply and the preamp - and then re-attach.
Sometimes if the DC power cord is not connected properly, everything appears to work (tubes light up) but nothing can be heard. |
Swampwalker - there is a gain attentuator on the back of the syrah that is independent of the volume control, turning it counter-clockwise opens it up. Make sure your input and output are selected properly. Other than that, you should go to Mick. |
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Thanks guys, but this unit does NOT have a tape monitor loop. A second set of main outs and an additional input, instead. |
Swampwalker: The toggle switch on your right as you face the unit should be set such that its pulled towards yourself. I had the same problem when I first got my unit back in 08/2003. Hope its the same issue with yours. All the best... |
Swamp,
Sounds like you have flipped the tape monitor switch, are
you sure that you do not have one? It would be on top, right front corner. I did that once without knowing that I had, same results that you are describing. |
Supratek specialists- help needed. My Syrah appears to have s#$t the bed. EMC-1 cdp and H270 amp works just fine when I run direct input, but get almost no output when I go from the CDP to the Syrah! Just a faint signal at the speakers which does not vary with the pre volume control. All the tubes are lit, and I rolled in another set. Same thing. Nada. Zilch. Was working fine a little while ago, but it did seem rather warmer than I remember. Its almost like a tape monitor switch has been flipped, but this unit does not have a monitor. Any thoughts? I've emailed Mick but no response yet. HELP!!! |
Tubegroover...I have heard David Bernings zh270 driving my aged quad 63s, alittle while ago...My goodness. Mick Maloney and David Berning certainly have alot in common... Design build, direct sales, extraordinary performance and value in their electronics.Wading through the discussion forums the past few months in audiogon, I have gained a new perspective on this thrilling hobby...More so then what i have gotten out of any other source in the past.Finally,I would like to thank all on this thread for their endeavor and expense in finding ways of enhancement...Tubegroover and Slowhand, look into borrowing a shunyata tiapan a.c.cord to try in your Berning amps... |
OK I have a question for you tube mavens. I have some JAN Tung-sol 6L6WGBs (GT Shape) and some Sylvania 6L6s (ST shape). The Tung-sols have only 6 pins and the have 7. Both do NOT have a pin 3rd position counterclockwise from the key. All of the rest are present on the Sylvania; the TS also has no pin at first slot clockwise from the key. What gives? |
Baranyi yes you will hear much of what the Zh-270 does by listening to the Siegfried but the Sieg is an SET so it is going to probably be a bit more effortless and harmonically complete. You may decide at that point to find a more efficient speaker, then again I don't think David Berning is still making the Seigfried these days, too much work. |
Baranyi,
You are welcome to come anytime. Just give me some advance notice so I can make sure I am not out of town when you come. |
Baranyi,
I am in Indianapolis and have the First Sound/Berning combination. You are welcome to audition if in the area. |
Allan Hagan has given me the number of a guy who used to have a zh-270 but now has a Ziegfried in Chicago. Allan said that there is a family sound and I will get the idea of how zh270 sounds. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Will I get an idea by listening to a different amp? Slowhand, I will take you up and come listen to your system. It would be a fun field trip! |
Ecclectique,
I just recieved my 6F6G tubes. WOW, The detail and resolution of these tubes is amazing. Thanks for letting us know about them. |
Baranyi,
If you are ever in Cincnnati, you are welcome to come over and hear the Berning and the Syrah in my system. By the way guys, I think Mick is using that 6c33 tube in his new 100wpc amps also. |
Baranyi, I would concur with Ecclectique concerning the Berning. So far as purchasing new over the prototype, the concern would be that the prototype may have been sitting in a box for years if you are not purchasing from a user. Be CAREFUL of this. I would be concerned about the capacitors which may or may not be in need of replacement which would then add to the cost of the amp and may not make it worth it over new. If the amp is operational and is guaranteed as part of the sale, this would be an option. The price should be commensurate with these factors.
There really isn't much risk if you have 4.5K to spend. It is a versatile amp that can work with many loads and since the amp is in short supply with a healthy demand, it insures the value will be maintained. It sounds to me that you really need to hear it first before committing. You should probably search out a user in your area. There are few products in this hobby that I feel comfortable recommending. With certain considerations in mind the zh270 is definitely one. |
Hello Baranyi. What do you consider very cheap for the Berning? No matter how you slice it, It is certainly one of the finest sounding amplifiers money can buy today, and given its power platform,really very versatile. Do you really care if it is a prototype? |
Hello SteveM. A little off topic here in this thread, however, I am very curious. How did you intergrate the raven with the proac? Is it integrated on the original proac baffle in the box? In phase or reverse?I concur with your rather astute analysis regarding Stuart Tylers BBCesque-like voicing of his speakers.[You have very good ears sir] . I too... just love that proac voicing technique, and quite frankly believe it is the reason why they make such beautiful music.I am also a BIG fan of the original 15 ohm BBC version of the roger Ls3/5a, which was obviously tuned or voiced to sound the way it does. I still have a pair in my kitchen, we have listened to them every day for more than 25 years.Many,many times... visitors and guests to our home have been mesmerized by the sound of the LS 3/5a. And most are usually in utter dis-belief when they realize they are actually listening to these diminutive 25 year old little babies.Has your modded proacs been a success in capturing that BBC like magic???? The Raven's are so incredibly transparent and posses that elusive abilty to resolve that very fine micro-detail, akin to the better E stats out there. I have just never heard them "successfully" married to a full range speaker that I could live with. Hell... You can banish me to a desert island for the rest of my days with any one of the proac response series speakers,my Supratek and any decent tube amp! All of proacs just make for beautiful music!I would be interested to hear your thoughts Steve. |
Hkvos, If you buy a Supratek, ask Mick if he can make it with TWO of the home-theater by-pass features. This would require a three-way switch vs. the standard two-way switch on units with the home-theater by-pass feature. This would let you connect the Wadia "direct" to your amp through one of the Supratek's by-bypass inputs and the home-theater through the other. You would be able to control volume from the Wadia or HT instead of relying on the Supratek. The Supratek doesn't even need to be on.
Additionally, you could run the analog outputs of the Wadia into the CD input on the Supratek for a different flavor. Sweet! |
Slowhand, the Berning would have to be sold inexpensively for me to take a chance on it. I am about to do what you suggested about placing the order. I got an email from Mick about updating the Cortese to the newest design. He said it would cost about $500 at his cost (he said it was an extensive revision) plus shipping and take 2 to 3 months for the mods to be completed. I wonder if anyone on this thread has heard the latest revision and how far it bests the earlier design. For my budget, the Syrah still seems to be the best bet for me. |
Ahhh the 6c33 tube, Joule and Tenor also use that tube, very nice. I would love to hear the amp, you've got me very curious Steve, maybe Mick can send me a pair for evaluation? :)
If its cut from the same cloth as the pre-amps it must be quite special. |
Tubegroover: The Supratek Merlot is no ordinary S.E.T amp. It has all the valve virtues of harmonic sweetness and musicality, but it is also super clean and detailed with the most solid bass I have heard, and for a given volume level, beats a Krell KSA100 that I owned.
Besides Mick's unique circuit topology, the Merlot uses the Russian 6C33-CB output tube which has a crystal clear pristine (cut-glass) character. It is no accident that Lamm Industries and BAT also use this valve in their top-of-the-line power amps.
The Berning would appear to be a ground breaker by all accounts, and I would love to hear it one day. Although, that would be a rare circumctance in my neck of the woods (being Perth - Western Australia).
Regards,
Steve M. |
Baranyi,
Not sure if I would go with that prototype unless you could get it cheap. If It were me I would place may order with Mick for the Supratek and probably order the Berning. Once in a great while a Berning shows up for sale, but if you want the latest version, I would order it new. Just my opinion. |
I hate to bust in the middle of this thread but it’s been such a joy and education reading it and I think you guys might be able to help me out here. I’m looking for a new pre and really like what I’ve been hearing about Supratek.
Here is my story longwinded though it may be. Hopefully some of you all will be able to provide some guidance. I recently sold my Sun Audio SVC 1000 preamp with an eye toward replacing it with something that had a better accommodation for HT and a remote. (I had a seriously convoluted set-up to run surround through my main system but it was so graceless that I couldn’t stand it any more.) My amps have volume pots on them so my Cary 303 was still useable. After some searching around I decided that I would go the Wadia direct route for starters and see how that went. Let me say that the Wadia 301 blew away the Cary with no effort right out of the box. I have never witnessed such a dramatic improvement - ever. (Shows you what a newbie I am). So now I’m thinking the hell with a preamp, who needs it, this is awesome I got a remote and the best sound I’ve every heard coming from my system. But and there is always a but, by now my wife is screaming that she wants her surround sound back, and I’m thinking I may add a vinly source at some point. But I don’t want to sacrifice the my new found wonder and enjoyment of the Wadia, (Since I’ve got 100’s of CD’s and only 10’s of vinly), so to finally get to the point, I have some questions perhaps you Supratek owners/listeners can help with. Will I lose the air, definition, detail and involvement that I’ve come to love? Have the remote and HT pass through issues been worked out on the Supertek's? Has anyone done any comparisons of the Supratek Syrah and Sonic Frontiers Line 2 or 3 or the BAT 30 or 50’s? I’m currently running the Wadia 301 directly to Sun Audio SV2A3-PE push-pull mono’s with Cabasse Farella 401’s. I would really be grateful for any guidance/insight you could provide.
Thanks |
Slowhand, I have contacted Allan Hagan trying to audition a ZH-270 in Chicago. I also contacted David Berning who said that he currently has a 3 month waiting list. I guess I could buy my second system components now while waiting for Mick and Berning to build the components. Interestingly enough there is a zh-270 prototype at auction on this website. I don't know if I am brave enough to go for that unless it goes really cheap. That would be an interesting second system amplifier! Thanks for all the support. This thread has made audio fun again.
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Baranyi,
You will be very happy with the Berning/Supratek combo. This is a match made in Heaven. I have a friend that has a pair of Sound Lab M1's. These speakers are HUGE! We hooked my 10 lb Berning up to them and I could not believe what I heard. That little Berning drove those M1's with no problem at all. If you want a system you will be happy with for many years to come, get the Berning/Supratek combo. To answer your other question, the speakers I am using are Gallo Nucleus Reference. As mentioned by Tubegroover, the Berning has 3 settings to adjust for speaker impedence. On my speakers the Normal setting is the best. Other nice features of the amp are automatic tube biasing. Each time the amp is turned on the tubes bias themselves. |
Hey Jazzdude. Discovering wildcat tubes???? Hmmmmmm . I have been working with vacuum tubes ever since building my first tube gear [dyna pas and mk2 amps kits] in grade 9 electronics class [1967].A little story here..... My first employment in the working world was as a techie for Bell & Howell[Dukane] in their microfilm division.One of our biggest accounts was at the Westinghouse plant in Hamilton Ontario[transformer division]. I will never forget walking into their computer room and seeing a gigantic Univac computer that employed more than 18,000 vacuum tubes! Next to the computer room was a storage facility to house their massive tube inventory.The late Archie MacIssac, who was their Chief electrical engineer at the time,He and I became very close friends. Archie saw the writing on the wall regarding the demise of the vacuum tube from a technical perpective and began collecting tubes. His collection was something to behold, facinating, and enormous! Tubes from all over the Globe, dating back to the earliest stuff, including gigantic watercooled Eimac power triodes and pentodes,some of these tubes are worth a small fortune today.Over the years,I too; became a collector of vacuum tubes and now have a rather humble collection of some very rare tubes .However, most of my collection are limited to audio tubes per sey. I also collect vintage tube gear, but have [reluctantly] sold most of my collection off in recent years, due to space limitations and the mess of stuff that aways seems to accompany these things. However...Sure wish I had kept some of that great old stuff today! If one is to collect vacuum tube gear, one better learn how to repair and retube the stuff.I think its a "given" that the tubes employed in most any circuit designs can make or break the way it will sound in any given system,especially if that given system has the abilty to resolve the amplified imformation.Particularly the vintage stuff,but much of the modern stuff as well. Its really a shame, that todays designers are literally "handcuffed" because of the availabilty and the prohibitive cost of many of these great NOS tubes .Unfortunately, for us anyway, many designers of modern tubed gear have really no choice but to "voice" their creations with todays mediocre sounding modern tubes,their hands are tied!That said.... a lot of the modern stuff[not all] can be transformed into a whole higher order with the great old nos valves. After all,vacuum tube research reached it's pinnicle in the 50's and early 60's.It really shouldn't be much of a surprise, given todays superior passive parts[wire,capacitors,resistors,diodes etc]when designed around good linear transformers, that we are now seeing products coming to the market that are pushing the envelope [sonically speaking]at reasonable cost [in todays dollar]. Relative to the "old guard" well established Corporate American companies .Any one remember the cost of the Marantz 7 or model 5's of the era?Astramonical in todays dollar! There has been an underground movement in DYI vacuum tube audio for many years. In this "imformation age" and the ever growing internet, I am certain we will see many more Supratek-like pruducts reach the masses.A really good thing for the open minded Audiophile. [Audiophile?] geez... I really hate that handle. All the more reason to start collecting those great nos tubes before there ain't any more to be had. Hell...ya need to take out a second mortgage to acquire some of these tubes! We will also see more people designing equipment that will employ "alternative" tube types, due to the cost and availablity of the traditional audio triode tubes used in commercial audio equipment.Interesting, how the industry adopted the 9 pin miniature triodes[12au7,12ax7,12at7 6dj8 et] as the the norm in the amplifiers from the 60's to modern day stuff . Considering the stuff of a decade earlier used their octal based family equivalents . The 6sl7's operating characteristics are basically a cross between a 12ax7 and a 12at7.The nearest 9 pin equivalent would be a 5751.The 6sn7 has the same average plate characteristics as the 12au7 but with a hotter filament.The 6BL7 resembles the 6dj8 miniature triode so common in todays equipment but it has slightly less gain and even lower plate resistance.The basic octal base family of dual triodes evolved from the 30's and 40's and were used mainly in WW2 military communication equipment. The 6sn7 was so highly regarded in private industry that Univac employed them in their computers.Later iterations evolved into the 5691[6sl7]and the 5692[6sn7]Given identical circuit topology,these octals elicit a more linear and focused sound than a 12a?7 or 6dj8,are more extended at the frequency extrememes while also expanding the space and perimeter of the soundfield. Given the demand for these nos tubes,the better ones are now commanding prices approaching that of the premium 12ax7's and 6dj8's so common in modern equipment.The circle will turn again and a new bread will emerge using equivalent alternatives to the 6sn7 and 6sl7 octals. Relatively inexpensive octal triodes from the same era with similar electrical characteristics. Take the 6DN7 and 6EM7 for instance. These are great sounding dual triodes that are dirt cheap from any tube dealer not to mention ham fests and flea markets.We can thank the alternative free thinking pioneers of the industry,men like Scott Franklin and Bruce Moore who introduced the magnificent Luminesence octal based preamp in the early eighties. The Lumi's design topology employed many of these octal based triodes, all hand wired, point to point with discrete circuits and fully regulated vacum tubed power supplies.This preamp was such a radical design change from the accepted norm in the state of the art designs of the day.At the time,the ARC sp-10 and the CJ premiere 3 were considered at the edge of the art and the king of the hill .There is no doubt in my mind,the Lumi was the catalyst and the inspiration to much of the octal based triode tube designs emerging today,.....Supratek included. |
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Baranyi,
I thought about asking Mick to upgrade my Cortese, but I don’t think I would be willing to live without my Cortese during the time it would take to have it upgraded.
I will probably have to order a new Cortese and then sell the one I have now once the new one arrives. I would just like to hear from anyone that gets the new Cortese that it is a significant upgrade over what I have now.
You will be thrilled with whichever Supratek pre-amp you pick. Good Luck.
. |
Bwhite: Thanks very much that is really good advice except, you're a few hours late - I already placed my order for a complete replacement set (used NOS tubes) this afternoon. But I'm sure these will out shine the stock tubes no matter what. My picks were based on what I picked up from yours & Ecclectique's earlier posts. For 6S7N I picked a pair of KenRad VT-231 (black glass) and for the rectifier, a Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 and a pair of Tungsol 7581/KT66 for the 6L6 application. These should arrive in just a few days. I'll be sure to update everyone on their performance in my setup. |
Jewel... My take is that if you can buy good used tubes to try, DO IT. When rolling tubes, you'll want to sample as many as possible. Buying NOS, or NIB tubes is way too expensive - especially if they end up not fitting your tastes.
Once you nail down the best tubes for your system, then you can buy NOS versions... and a few back ups. |
Steve the Merlots may excel in most areas but it is the area of bass performance, extension AND definition that I would question their mettle compared to the Berning. This amp is in another league with reference to tube amps in that performance area. Imagine an amp that has the bass, airy upper frequency extension along with the harmonic presentation of the best SET's without being euphonic and you would have the perfect amp. If the Merlots do all that I would love to hear them. Haven't heard an SET do it to date. The Berning only falls a bit short in harmonic realism but it sure isn't a slouch in that area either. It is quite amazing especially tweeked out. |
Thanks for the offer. I will consider it but the Cortese seems a little out of price range right now. I also have my heart on the Berning zh-270 right now. Why don't you have your Cortese modified as was offered on the thread by Mick? |
Hi everyone: Any opinions on Vacuumtubes.com as a retailer? Also, would you recommend buying new NOS tubes as opposed to used ones at 50% discount labeled as (used but tested good). For example, a NOS Mullard standard-base 5AR4/GZ34 is listed for $95 while a used one is $45.
By the way, I received my Chardonay back in 8/2002 and its still fitted with all stock tubes. Upon my recent return to this thread I was instantly inspired by posts from folks like Ecclectique, Bwhite & others. I figured it's time to make some adjustments.
Thanks in advance for your tips. |
Baranyi
.
I would suggest that you consider jumping up to the new Cortese if your budget can stand it. Mick has upgraded the Cortese & Grange but left the Syrah alone at this point. The Syrah is beautiful and the Cortese (older version) is heavenly with the right NOS tubes. I just can't imagine what the new Cortese or Grange sound like.
Either the Syrah or Cortese will plaster a major smile on your face that will not fade.
I will be happy to sell my one year old Cortese so I can order the newer Cortese or Grange.
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Tubegroover: The Supratek Merlot monoblocs come pretty close to the notion of 'perfection' in a power amp, from what I've heard. So long as you have loudspeakers that can do them justice, i.e, are happy to run on 18watts of Single Ended Triode power.
Regards,
Steve M. |
Ecclectique - How do you "discover" these wildcat tube substitutions? FWIW, the 6V6G and similar tubes also work as regs in the supratek. |
I doubt it can be touched for the money Baranyi, it can be safely recommended without worry. I have heard a few other amps in my system and as far as the Berning goes for what it offers you would have to pay considerably more to get comparable performance. I would go even further, I know a few Berning owners that have traded down mega expensive ss amps in favor of the zh270. The Spectron has been mentioned with the Von Scheikerts as a reference but after personally listening to that amp next to the Berning with the VSM (read that cavaet!), it really didn't come close. It sounded compressed and closed in by comparison. The Berning is more than good at the price it is reference caliper amplifier at any price with any amp in its power rating, it just misses in the harmonic presentation of the SET's but nothing is perfect except for maybe TWL's 1 watt ZOTL 45 SET "Holy Grail" the best of all worlds except maybe for the 1 watt, but I can only imagine the perfection of that 1 watt! IMO. May the cannon fire begin. |
Thanks for the response Tubegroover. I am very tempted to order both the Berning and the Syrah. I really am looking for something that I can use for a decade happily. I have been considering the Syrah for the last week and I have always been attraced to Berning amps. This seems like a real winner of a combo that would be hard to beat at anywhere near the cost. Thanks again! |
Hello Gang. A while back, I posted an alternative tube that can hold its own with the ultra expensive Western Electric 350B when employed as regulators in the supratek. I have been using a pair of 6F6g [ST bottle shape] from the 1930's in my Syrah for more than a month now.Mine are labelled rogers, however, I believe they were made by National Union[the company that first developed the 350b]. These power pentodes are slightly smaller than the 350b and their internals are almost indentical. Do "not" use the 6F6 metals[developed first] as they do not sound the same as the later glass tubes.These 6F6 power pentodes preceeded the more common 6V6 beam tetrode tubes and were used mostly in old radios and consols of the day.They should be relatively cheap and easy to source with a little searching as there is virtually no demand for these tubes today.The 6F6g will amaze you in the supratek! They sound so much like the 350b its simply a no brainer. |
Hi Stiltskin
Jim and I haven't done a comparison since Jim seems undecided on the pre-amp but is leaning towards the Joule. He is also considering the Cortese I believe but don't tell him I told ya :^) It will probably be several months down the road if he does order the Joule.
Hi Baranyi
I also have the Berning/Syrah combo with Merlins. I would expect the Berning would work very well with Von Scheikerts so long as the impedance doesn't drop below 4 ohms. Of course there is a feedback adjustment for lower impedances but I find the low feedback setting on the amp preferable. The power especially at 70 watts must be experienced to be appreciated. I've never heard it run out of gas, that is the music never compresses like many tube amps seem to when the going gets tough. It is a great match with the Syrah in that they compliment each other quite well, the liquid transparency of the Syrah with the clear, dynamic unflappable Berning. |
I had my ZH-270 hooked up to some VSA VR4Gen3SEs the other day and they sounded quite good. TONS of bass and more than enough power. I think that for R&R, that would be fantastic combo. |
Thanks Slowhand for your response and your decision to take a chance on a component with little to no press. I have greatly enjoyed reading through the thread and most likely will order the Syrah in the next day or two. I have always been a David Berning fan when I owned an EA 230. I have been on an audio hiatus for the past 5 years or so imposed by a divorce that divested me of my large vintage audio collection. I have been looking for a very musical system that I can enjoy and leave the collecting world behind. Something I can enjoy for the next 10 years or so without needing to look at every stereo rag out there. I have been reading of the Berning amp you are using. I am wondering which speakers you use them with. I bought a pair of Von Schweikert 4.5's and the dealer is letting me use his Sophia integrated temporarily. I have some updated Dyna mk 4's that I will use until I buy a more modern amp. Do you think the Berning and the Syrah would mate well with the Von Schweikerts? Thanks for starting all this fun! |
Bwhite, my 350 B's are WE's but I suspect the NU's are exactly the same tube. You might want to ask in the Tube Asylum. I am sure someone there can give you a definitive answer.
Grannyring, I know that Bryan isn't as big of a fan as I am of the 6L6 metal tube, but I liked them even better than the GEC KT 66's. And they are about $35 a tube. If I wasn't running WE 350 B's I would use the 6L6 metals.
I know the isolation issue was debated here earlier, but in my system I found a solution that worked wonders. I ordered the DH Labs large cones and put them under my Supratek on top of a piece of 12 x 12 slate - not tile, but a cheap slate from India that I found at Lowes. When you tap this slate there is no ring, just a dead thud. I thought what the heck, I'll try it. Under the slate is another layer of material I also found at Lowes. It is an inter-locking mat that is sold for garage floors, weight rooms, etc. I cut a 12 x 12 piece of this material, which has a 1/16 inch thick hard plastic outer shell laminated to a tough 1/2 inch resilient foam. Under this foam I put a 12 x 12 piece of Sorbothane with another piece of the foam under the Sorbothane and another piece of slate under that with one more piece of foam under the slate resting on the MDF shelf.
The resolution and soundstage is amazing when the Supratek is resting on this sandwich. A deaf person could here the difference. As clear as I thought my system was before, it is laughable how big the difference is since employing this combination. And the most expensive part is the sheet of Sorbothane.
I now have all of my components on this same sandwich and I am thrilled with the results. Only my transport is not sitting on this combo, resting instead on a Neuance shelf which is even more amazing.
Since I plan on over-hauling my entire system in about 9 months, I haven't ordered more Neuance shelves, but I highly recommend them. My home-made shelf seems to be very close to the Neuance shelf, but I suspect it adds some color to the sound that the Neuance shelf doesn't. But I can happily live with whatever color my home-made solution may be adding.
I did not find cones and an isolation sandwich for the power supply section as beneficial as the linestage, but the PS does sit on one of my DIY isolation sandwichs. If you don't have your Supratek isolated yet, you may want to try it. It made this giant killer even better for me. YMMV
When I upgrade my System, I suspect I will seriously consider the Grange or Cabernet, but after reading about the H-Cat, I would love to hear one. If it as good or better than the Suprateks, I would probably go with the H-Cat to avoid the hassle of tubes, but I am skeptical that the H-Cat will better the Grange. Just a guess, but as good as my Chardonnay is with NOS tubes, I can only imagine how good the Grange must be. |
Thanks for the reply Fiddler! Looks like I'm going GZ34 / 5AR4 shopping!! :) Loving the 350B's right now after a few power cord changes in my system.
Do you have the National Union 350B or the Western Electric 350B? I'm currently using the NU but the box says they were "Manufactured by Western Electric Co. Inc." and packaged in March 1945.
Some folks claim the WE is flat out better - others say there is no difference - same tube, different label. I am curious to know your thoughts on this. |
Hey Grannyring! Great review! Are you SURE you don't have a Cortese? The photos of your pre are dead on CORTESE!!
I've compared the Cortese and Syrah extensively and must say that the sonics of each are quite similar - very little difference from a tonal standpoint. The Cortese is quieter, more solid and refined but aside from that.... its not really what *I* would call "better" if sheer value is what you seek. It is however better in a more intangible way - difficult to explain. At a certain point in this hobby we begin paying big bucks for certain refinements which are ultimately, not necessary unless the rest of a system climbs above a certain level - which exceeds the performance of the lower-priced-less-refined component. I've been up and down with my system and there was a time when I felt my Chardonnay was perhaps the weak link. I have yet to feel that way with the Cortese.
As for the NOS tubes.... Glad you like the Ken's. They're great but they are an acquired taste.. (I believe that's what Asa was referring to in above posts) There are many great tubes to try & when you identify a combo which complements your system & tastes, put it up to the CJ again and you'll be amazed at how much better the Syrah becomes - then, stick those tubes in the Cortese and you're likely to understand why the Cortese is twice as expensive. There is just something unquestionably right about it.
The prices for NOS tubes (350B's) is scary.... but I would expect them to last a lifetime when used in the Supratek. So... a 200-300 investment isn't all that bad for the gains.
Other tubes to try - relatively inexpensive...
Regulator
Sylvania 5932 double black plate (nice)
Philips 7581A (massive impact! & dynamics)
Rectifier
Bendix 6106 (mixed reviews - but still worth trying)
RCA 5V4G (clear, open and detailed) |
Jim2...Did you and Tubegroover get a chance to hookup and compare the joule pre./amp. and the syrah / berning with your merlins?...If you did, i sure would be interested to read what you two experienced...Thanks for your time... |
Hi Baranya, this is Slowhand. I am the guy that started this thread and I still have my Syrah. I have enjoyed it from day one and have no, I repeat no plans to sell it. The first thing I do each day when I get home from work is to turn my system on and relax with some music. I doubt if I ever sell my Syrah. I know that Mick makes the more expensive pre's, but I am perfectly happy with the Syrah. I agree with the posts that suggest getting a Supratek pre with both line stage and phono stage. Even if you don't use the phono stage right now, you will someday if you want to hear what these preamps will really do. As for amp suggestions, I am using a Berning ZH270 amp and it is a beautiful match with my Syrah. Place your order with Mick, you will not regret it and it is worth the wait. |
Well, I have been comparing the Cortese(stock tubes) to the the Syrah (stock tubes). Thus far I am only listening the line stage with my Resolution Audio Opus 21 player. The Cortese is better by what I consider a small margin. More refined and and in control is what I would say. Then my NOS tubes showed up. I ordered these based on the info Bwhite gave me on what NOS tubes to use in the Syrah. Thank you so much Bwhite and others. Your ears are very good. Now going head to head, the Syrah with a Mullard 5AR4/GZ34 and the Ken Rad black glass VT-231's vs. stock tube Cortese!
The winner - very close and it just comes down to personal taste. The bottom line is for the money the Syrah with these three tubes is a better value to me. It is half the price and with NOS's almost all of the sound, if not all, in the line stage anyway. I understand the phono is better on the Cortese also. I am still looking for KT-66's Genalex or 350B's. I am sure this will put the Syrah in the giant killer league. These last tubes just cost to much and I am not sure I will ever pay that much!
I also have a CJ 16LSII in my home for the weekend. I never though CJ was all that good, but I am dead wrong on this one. Forget what you hear about it being slow, thick, lush or whatever. To be frank I feel it bested both the Cortese and Syrah in my system - line stage only, but I cannot afford it even used. It is very transparent and beautiful sounding. It is in the same leauge as the two Supratek units in the highs and mids, however it has a little more bass weight and foundation. I do like this as it makes music sound more live to me! But remember the CJ costs $8500 new! The Syrah with the NOS's costs less than 1/3 and has phono! I also find the Syrah with the NOS tubes mentioned sounded 90% as good as the CJ in my system. Perhaps the KT66's or 350B's would then cause the Syrah to be on par or better than the CJ. This is amazing for the money folks. I mean amazing.
Outside of the costly 350B and KT66, please give me a NOS tube that is affordable to use in the power supply. My Syrah has three tubes like the Cortese in the power supply.
I did open it up and while both have 3 tubes they are very different on the inside. The Cortese has many more parts and is laid out more cleanly.
Grannyring |
Bwhite, I have several Mullard/Amperex 5AR4 vintages (so technically not GZ34, but the equivalent) and they all sound the same. Very consistent from tube to tube.
I have tried the stock 5Z4GT, the GZ 32, the CV5745/GZ33, Bendix 6106 and the Mullard 5AR4's and I much prefer the 5AR4/GZ34 to anything else. |
