Preamp Deal of the Century

Congrats, Cello. I have been running 350B's in my Supratek for a long time and nothing else has the magic the 350B's do. Sure they are expensive, but as you say, they should outlast everything else by two or three times or more.

Hi Bryan,
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I am using a 5AR4 Philips Miniwatt Holland Metal Base NOS 1957 (same as Mullard GZ34)
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I got my Mullard EL 37's and GZ34's from Brendan Biever email him at tekman@tubeworld.com or check out his website http://www.tubeworld.com.
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Brendan's not cheap, but he has a great selection of high quality tubes and is quite honest.
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I have bought from him 4 or 5 times and been more than happy each time. He is also a good source for 6922 and it's variants.
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You can call or email me directly if I can be of any help.
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Good Luck and let us know how you make out.
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All the best, - Larry

Hi Cello - Hopefully I'll be around to buy them from you.

Just curious, what rectifier tube are you using with the 350B's?

I'm still stuck on the Bendix 6106 - it was weird sounding and almost nauseating when I first started using it but after a few months of break in, became unbeatable.

Anyone know of a source for fat base Mullard GZ34's?

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I just dropped a pair of WE 350B's into my Cortese about 3 weeks ago and am more than thrilled with the fantastic results. They continue to improve (did not think that to be possible) as they break in.
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I thought I had gotten as far as possible with improving the sound of my Cortese by tube rolling andwas quite happy, but I kept reading and re-reading all of the talk about how great and how expensive the 350's are. Finally, I found a pair of 350's on ebay at a relatively good price (still a killer), but it has been well worth the money spent.
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I replaced a pair of NOS Philips 1963 Miniwatt / Mullard EL37’s with the WE 350B’s and the improvement was startling. The EL37’s had produced wonderful sound and I was quite content, but you know, the disease got me and I popped for the 350’s – great move.
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I would highly recommend the EL 37’s for the regulator position, but if you are in a position to pick up a good pair of WE 350B’s, do it.
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Given that the 350’s should last longer at the regulator position longer than I will on the planet, this should turn out to be one of my better aggressive decisions.
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I am thinking I can sell them to Bryan White in about 20 years and make a tidy profit.
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Hi guys,

I'm considering getting a Chardonney - no plans to play LDs. Would Chardonney be a good match for a Perreaux EP-220 (220W SS amp) and Mirage M7-si speakers?

Brasso is a bit strong and might smear the chrome finish with prolonged use??

I use Goddards long term silver polishing cloth, gentle enough for expensive jewelery so it should be gentle enough for my black and chrome Cabernet preamp, which incidently, looks like 'audio jewelery' to me !

Regards,

Steve M.

Try Brasso, it's readily available. Or, the absolute best polish for metal or any finish for that matter is made by Rolite. The type AP-300 Aircraft Aluminum Polish is unbelievable! The trouble is it is very hard to find, and hideously expensive. The bright side (no pun) is that one container will last you a lifetime, at least until you figure out that it works on cars, boats, motorcycles, etc....

I use it on all of the above, plus any metal that I want to shine. They make a polish & sealant that nees to be used after it on paint, plexi, or acrylic, and you have to use this to seal the finish! Very important, but only for paint & plastics. The metal finishes in the house should never need it.

Now, not affiliated, just like it.

Hey guys,

What do you use to clean the chrome on your preamps?

I recently purchased a used Cortese and I would like to try some other tubes and I would appreciated some recommendations. In the main unit I have 6SN7GTB TUNG-SOL and Tung Sol electric pearl 12B4A ,then moving toward the front Philips 6922,then move to the front are 6C45N 8711 and I can't read a name on the tubes. In the power supply I have SOVTEK 5881/6L6WCG and in between that I have a Mullard GZ33 .What tubes can I replace and what should I purchase ?
Which tubes are for the phono stage ?
I have Wavelength 300b amps with WE300b's or KR300b's and Cain&Cain Single Horn Bens Speakers.
In a few months I will purchase a Bix Turntable and I could also use suggestions for a cartridge that will match the Cortese .
Thank You
Bill

Hi Jazzdude. I too have a ton of nos 6sn7's and was seriously considering converting my new cortese to accommodate the 6sn7 mainly because I wanted to compare it to my Syrah. Now... I am not so sure. Before I do so,I am going to try a bunch of nos 6j5's and equivalents. I am very impressed with the old 6j5 shoulder shaped glass bottles in the cortese. Unlike the 6sn7,there are many substitutes and electrical equivalents of the 6j5 that can be used to voice the cortese and they are certainly a hell of a lot cheaper to acquire than any of the better sounding 6sn7's.

Ecclectique - The 6J5 may cost less and may even sound better than the 6SN7. But it is not as plentiful. When I ordered my Cabernet I asked Mick to wire it for the 6SN7 instead of the 6J5 because I already had a large number of 6SN7.

Hi Gang.I am curious. Has anyone here ordered the cortese with the 6j5 tube option? The 6j5 triode tube is basically 1/2 of a 6sn7 dual triode. The current market value of the 6j5 family and equivalent substitutions are very attractive when compared to the better nos 6sn7's. I think Mick used a pair for each channel for full gain in the line stage. What I find attractive with this toplogy is: it allows one the option of using just a single 6j5/channel for those with highly efficient speakers,or amplifiers with high sensitivity, or using two of these for higher gain without the switch in the circuit. Supratek preamps that employ the 6sn7 dual triode like my syrah, also utilize a gain switch for each channel to allow for this.I also noticed that the new Supratek Grange preamp also employs the single triode 6j5 as well as the currently produced clone of the rare Western Electric 101D balloon type directly heated triode in the line stage. There are probably more 6sn7's available to us for voicing the syrah or cortese, however.... the 6sn7 preferences in my syrah.....the tungsol round,kenrad blackglass, and the sylvania wgt metal are all obsenely expensive to acquire today and seem to be getting more so all the time. It seems that Mick has accumulated a supply of the nos 1947 vintage 6j5g and he is supplying that tube with the Grange. Any thoughts here?

Hi Slowhand. To the best of my knowledge, they are exactly the same tube. Every one of my examples[more than 50] seem to be identical in every way.... from the plates,to the micas and the side getters. I honestly believe they are all the same tubes regardless of whether they were labelled gta's or gtb's. General Electric made tons off these tubes over the years and many were relabelled for other companies such as Emerson, Philco,Raytheon, Westinghouse, Silverton etc. The 6sn7 octal was probably the largest single production tube ever made.

Ecclectique,

How does the GE 6sn7GTA compare to the GTB in sound? I have a guy that is putting together a pair of each for me. Would the GTA's be worth getting, or should I just stick with the GTB's?

Hi Slowhand. Yes... I have used it and would say it is a decent tube, but to be candid here.... certainly nothing to write home about. The best GTB tube I have used in the syrah is the GE 6sn7gtb sidegetter. They are very plentiful,inexpensive[relatively speaking here] and come in both brown base and blackbase versions. They really are a honey of a tube in the Syrah, very well balanced tonally with a very solid bass punch. Perhaps a little on the sweeter side of neutral.... however, bang for the buck... ya can't beat em! They can be sourced just about anywhere for not much more than the price of a new pair of sovtek or the Chinese equivalents.

Has anyone tried Phillips "miniwatt" 6sn7GTB's in your Supratek? Also have any of you tried Phillips KT66's in the regulator position. I know the Genelex is supposed to be the best KT66, but I was wondering what the phillips might sound like.

Cello - Don't the Grange and Cortese have the same phono stage? Ask Mick to be sure. I think the difference between the two is the linestage portion.

Emm labs DCC2 DAC of the Century vs Preamp Deal of the Century?...

Have anyone tried the Emm Labs DCC2 with and without the Supratek?...Does the DCC2 sound better direct or via the Preamp of the Century?....

Alot of audiogoner thinks that the DCC2 is the real deal...but will the Preamp deal of the Century makes it sound better...?..

I have not heard the DCC2 yet, nor have I heard the Supratek. I hope my Supratek will be done soon..:-)..

What would be the bigger upgrade... Upgrading the stock tubes on my Syrah to ??? or upgrading my Denon 103 to a 103R ??

Thanks!

Todd

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Has anyone bought a Grange model in the last 3 - 6 months ?
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I would appreciate any info on their appreciation on the differences between the sound on a Grange as compared with a Cortese.
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bwhite - you're right of course. I don't have an idea how long it takes Mick to actually make one stock Chenin from start to finish given he has all the parts to hand - I'd imagine not that long after all these years doing it. I expect he has help these days too - would make sense.

btw, I wonder if someone at Audiogon would care to archive the first 1000 posts of this thread? Takes a while to load in my browser each time I read it...

The strange thing is that I think the wood cases go on the preamp chassis BEFORE the preamp is built. In my experience, it would be insanely difficult to put the case on after the internals are wired up or remove the case once the preamp is built.

Nickatkins,
I agree. We shouldn't bug him. He is trying to get them out as fast as he can. He told me last night he hopes to be able to ship a bunch of them within the next 3-4 weeks. So, lots of us my be getting them soon.

If your preamp is non-standard then the case has to be special made and takes longer to fill the order. Happened with both my preamps.

Yes, I got the same response as well and I'm sympathetic. I suggest we all not bug him too much while he resolves his issues with his suppliers - none of this is his fault...

I have a question for those of you still awaiting the arrival of your preamps from Mick. I sent him a note at the end of May checking on the status of my order. At that time he said he was experiencing delays in getting the cases from the woodworker and it would be 2-4 weeks longer. Last night (Aug.22) I sent him another note of inquiry. He is still having trouble getting the cases and expects to ship a bunch of units in the next 3-4 weeks. Are you all hearing this as well?

Ah yes "Mrmb", touche!
I'm so glad you decided that I was indeed droping rain on your parade. Again, if this is a "parade of a thread", then please, march on with your parade!
lONG LIVE THE PREAMP!!...yeah!...hip hip hurrah!...not a problem. Infact, I'm more than happy you guy's really get into your preamps, really!
I wasn't poo-pooing your enthusiasm. Nor was I trying to make anyone feel bad about their gear, hobby, whatever. I was (It's my issue, I conceed) mearly in awe of how much people like their preamp's. Me, I like the meat of the issue, the quality of sound.
Oh and, Mrmb?...there was recently a show where the Wilson Sofia's were run by a sony receiver!....yep, a Sony receiver. And yes, indeed, the speakers would sound much better with better gear. The point was that the speakers were much more important to the sound than the speakers!
Anyway, if Basketball can have Denis Rodman, Tennis have John Macenroe(?), Golf have Colin Montgomery, and Poker have Phil Helmuth Jr, then you guy's can have me!!!!!...
...Im a legend in my own mind you know...but I'm good at audio/video. My systems speak for themselves.
Yep, I'm good!...It's good to be me and know all things related to audio/video....ahhhhhhhhhhhh. I'm good, Im good!!!(LOL)

What I'm looking for is a Supratek preamp WITH REMOTE. Does NOT need phono (i'm not into vinyl, please don't attack me for that comment...).

So, preferably a Chardonnay or something. Hopefully with the Stainless Steel finish. Also like the piano black base with SS finish.

I am looking to spend no more than $2,000 USD shipped to my door in suburbs of Chicago.

If anyone has any leads/suggestions, feel free to email me: gajazi(at)shorr.com

Great thread, gang...

-George Ajazi

Amandarae: Nice try! Chiding a toddler's disruptive behavior without consequences, begets more of the same. The emotional age of some is unknown, so simple chiding is impossible, and results in more of the same. Why? Because they can!
Yep, speakers are the most important component! I just can't understand why my Pioneer Receiver ain't making my Soundlab's sing.
An "S" word might be the most important component of a rig, but it's not speaker -- try synergy.
Every parade is subject to rain; however, a drop or two doesn't require an umbrella. The over all tone of this thread has been more than positive, with nary more than a couple of drops.
May the never ending thread continue unabated ..

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Amadarae?...SHHHHHUT UUUUUUUP!!!!!! (lol)
Actually, I don't get your over commenting on my simple response of "don't understand the enthusiasm"(like, what, 1200 plus responses!?!)! Actually, if anything, I thought my response would help wake up audioenthusiest to the idea that more of the secret to great sound lies in the speakers, not the preamp...which is the truth, for certain.
And yes, the preamp is VERY IMPORTANT...just not near so as the speakers, 'case anyone is wondering.
Basically I'm just amazed at, yes, how many people are crazy about their preamp's, and how few are really struck with THEIR SPEAKERS!!!!
I mean, there's nothing wrong with commenting on anything. But it seems if you put a thread entitled "speaker deal of the century", you'd get like maybe a hundred or two responses!!!! Doesn't that stike anyone as weird?
Again, this strikes me as strange because SEASONED AUDIPHILE EXPERTS have been writing for years that the SPEAKERS are the most important part of the electronics chain. Yet people like their other gear most! (which reinforces why so many people start threads like..."I got the Denon 3805 finally, NOW WHAT SPEAKERS DO i CHOSE???!!!!)
It's just no wonder to me that people's systems sound the way they do so often!!!
Once I was at a local hifi club/get-together, and the guy running the deal was a small custom audio video dealer. He had his big setup in the main room running this very very good quality electronics on some Focal speakers that were sipmly "mediocre" at best. Everyone kept commenting that his speakers where really holding his system back. Same holds true for most posting here, I garantee it!
No big deal, just another perspective on this obiously exhausted thread.
But it's all good...don't get me wrong.
Still, I bet you my response is a bagillion times more informative and thought provoking than yours!!!!! Thanks for your thoughts dude.

Hello,

Thanks for the recommendations,

A friend emailed me a couple of days ago and recommended a Mullard GZ34 as a rectifier.
I have one on its way to me now.

I will certainly look out for the tubes you have recommended.

Roy
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I agree with you. I am even more enthusiastic about my Soundlab speakers.

Roy

Roy,

Agree totally! Have you tried 5V4G yet? Different flavor IMHO. Also, have you tried rolling the regulator tubes (I tried Tungsol 5881, GEC KT-66 Clear and smoked bottle, metal Kenrad 6F6G with good results).

Exertfluffer,

Does anybody here posted that preamp is the most important factor on the chain? Who? Where? If so, It's his/her choice isn't it?

If you do not get the "enthusiasm" on this thread per se, why bother participating in the first place?

What's the matter, did someone offended you here?

I cannot understand why you have to comment like that on something that people enjoy.

Go ahead and buy those additional preamps (7 isn't it?). At least it is your decision and if it makes you happy, then good for you and nothing else matters!

Don't get the enthusiasm over this thread. Speakers are the most important factor in the electronics chain. Yet people seem to love their preamp's the most...then amp's it seems....then speakers.
Hummmm...maybe I should go buy 5 or 7 preamps and place em all around the room for a killer multi channel music system. Cool

5AR4 rolling.

I have had a Cortese for about 5 months now and needless to say I think it is wonderful.

Two day?s ago the power supply rectifier tube failed (5AR4), well it took me 2 days to get hold of a replacement and yesterday it arrived. What a change, a slight mains frequency hum I had has now reduced by half but more importantly records sound much better. I can only describe it as a blacker background.

I have already tried rolling the 6922 and 6SN7 but the effect of replacing this rectifier tube was more profound.

What experience does anyone else have of changing this tube.

Roy

Just a short comment on the Chenin... I ordered my Chenin in piano black and chrome...Absolutely gorgeous...I have not spent a lot of time with it yet...very busy...Having logged 200 + hours using a vintage Fisher FM 100-B tuner for most of the burn in.I have just begun to swap tubes with n.o.s...One thing for sure that stands out with the Chenin is how unforgiving and revealing it is with what is plugged into it, along with the quality of recordings flowing through it...I like that... This has narrowed my search for a new system,goes something like this...Dynaudio special 25s or Gilmore audio #4,heard the model 2s...God save us...Atmasphere m-60s monos,for sure,VPI Scoutmaster with options,cables ect,hmm Anyway,I started to read preamp deal of the century around #200.It took a while to convince me...Its for real...

Ecmlee,

Yep! I too have the same "noise" when switching to a Bendix 61006 tube. As for a different tube rather than a 5AR4/GZ34, have you tried RCA 5V4GA? I found this tube "pleasing to the ear" as well when use as rectifier comparing them to my Mullard Metal Base 5AR4.

Just a suggestion.

Amandarae,

I ordered the upgraded High Black gloss finish for the Chenin. This otta be really pretty......But I have to admit that when I heard the Hovland and saw in in real life, I feel in love with it....but after reading this thread and recommendations of my audiogon consultant friends, they all told me to go with the Supratek.....and that the Chenin sounded way better in their systems.

I'll let you all know how it goes when my Chenin gets here..:-)

Long
p.s. I lied, I didn't really read all of this thread, it is way too long..:-)....

I owned a Syrah before and now I have switched to Chenin. It is no doubt that the Chenin sounds more superior than the Syrah especially on the phono stage but there is a problem on the choice of rectifier. I can't use Bendix 6106 nor Mullard GZ32 anymore because they provide a lower current output. Unlike Syrah, Chenin has no tolerance on this and it produces a hugh humble noise if not using GZ34 or 5AR4 as the rectifier. Any suggestion on this?

Longho68,

Caveat the waiting period (as painfull as it is!), remember that those of us who bought the units brand new went trough the same agony. The only difference is that us who have the units now, ordered them earlier than you do. Nothing else, same pain, same anticipation, same wishfulthinking for the day the unit will arrive.

Having said that, the rewards are great my friend. I too was considering the Hovland preamp when I stumble on this thread. I am very glad I did!

My take is that I never heard a tube preamp that delivers as "hard" and as "pure" bass than the Supratek. The praises you heard about how great the midrange is, the delicacy of the midrange when it is called for by the source, IMHO is very much true. The highs compliments the two region very well as well. In short, I really believe that you will be happy!

Aesthetics? Man, if you like the picture on the gallery, you will be shocked how exotic the preamp really looks like in person with woods and all. In fact, I may be crossing the line here, I never wipe my preamp with regular cloth but with 3M static linth free ones . I use compressed air as much as possible to preserve the looks. It commands the room to say the least. Impressive? I can let you ask my friends who wants to buy the preamp from me on the spot by just looking at it! When they heard it, they were floored! I told them the waiting period and I guess some if not all are now in line like you for Mick's wonders.

Sit tight my friend! You made a very "musical" and wise investment.

Cheers!

I think you missed my point: my guess is that you will have a longer wait than 2 months. Mick builds the Chenins in the order that they come in. If you just ordered yours, it isn't going to get built before those of us who ordered earlier. I ordered in March and am still waiting...

Wow, I guess I am lucky to wait for only 2 month.....I am musicless now....:-)......I sold my preamp and Tara Labs The Ones this weekend so that I can applied the funds towards the Chenin...

I hope to find cheaper cables that sound as good as The Ones...

Longho68,
2 month wait?! I've been waiting almost 5 months so far. Hope your sell-off of other equip. has not left you "musicless" while you wait.

Mick is doing his best to get these things out to people, but I think we should be realistic and patient with him. It seems our anticipation and wait will be richly rewarded...

I just ordered the Chenin too.....I hope I will be very happy like everyone else?...:-)....2 month wait.:-(.....I sold my cables, my preamp, and etc...to get the Chenin....

Is Chenin prettier than the Hovland in real life?....better sounding too right?...I almost purchase the Hovland...but it is not the "Preamp of the Century"....:-)......

Stephen,

I do have the original 6C4/6922 combo. But I think the phono preamp section can be re-wired to use 6J6 as well. In my case, I am very happy and does not look into that avenue at all. Besides, 6C4 is not that hard to find here. I also found that even the Motorola 6C4's are good sounding in my set-up. I won an auction at e-bay where I got 12 pieces NOS for $15.00.

Even the very nice sounding, I have a pair, GEC 6C4 at e-bay (I missed the auction!) can be had at $36.00 a quad. That should last a while.

For the 6922's, I am still clinging to my claim that them are not the "money" tube in the Chenin phono. Maybe just me, but I rolled several 6922/6DJ8 like Tele,Amperex, Sylvanias, etc. and even 7308's and not convinced with the results especially for the price I paid for them(although I have Siemens 6922 on the preamp right now).

To each his own, I guess!

Cheers, I bet you will like the preamp!

Mine is on order. Mick is now using 6J6 instead of 6C4 in the phono stage as he says the 6C4 valves are harder to find these days (at least in Australia). He did say, though, that I could use 6C4s (I guess it's a direct replacement, but the 6C4 is a 1/2 12au7 tube and the 6j6 is a dual triode tube historically used as an oscillator). Is that what you are doing? Did your Chenin come with the 6J6/6922 phono stage complement or do you have the original 6C4/6922 combo?

Thanks.

Stephen D.

Mrmb,

The phono stage of my Chenin is the best thing that ever happened to my vinyl set up! Less cables, more flexibility, better sound purity, you name it.

Now instead of worrying how to improve my system, I am accumulating tons of LP's!

Congratulations! With equipment like yours, the Chenin will be equally at home and then some. Like Swampwalker says, let the unit break in first before tube rolling! In the phono stage, I suggest either the Sylvania Gold Brand 6C4's, RCA black plate 6C4's, or the Tungsol Black Plates 6C4's and Siemens 6922's! With any of this combination in my system, the sound is simply divine!

Cheers!

Mrmb- You're in for a real treat with the phono stage, and for me the icing was the ability to change cart loading on-the-fly! Let the tube-rolling begin!! Although not until break-in is finished.

I would like to thank all the contributors to this thread. Based on your observations, and friendly repartee, I ordered a Chenin, and just received it this weekend, and all I can say is, WOW – what superb esthetics, and glorious music.

As far as I’m concerned, the never ending discussion of whether a CD Player connected direct to an amp is better than a pre-amp in between, has been resoundly answered in the negative! In the case of the Chenin, and my system, there is NO comparison versus direct and Chenin intervention. It’s an understatement to say that inserting the Chenin between my Wadia 861 and CAT JL-1’s created quite an improvement -- dynamics were improved, more detail was heard, the soundstage was better (both depth and breadth), and PRAT and musicality were improved.

Vocals were a prime example of the improvements wrought by the Chenin. They were found to be more “fleshed” out – i.e., they sounded more like a human was behind the voice. Pat Barber’s and Alison Krauss’s vocals were both more musical and detailed -- changes in inflection and breathing were easier noticed without the added glare that sometimes comes with increased detail. And the really good news is that and all of these positives were heard right off of the truck, and out of the box, with essentially no run-in!

So, in the case of my system, by adding more electronics, and cables, I’ve added a layer of simplicity. Yep, it sure is counter-intuitive, but the Chenin sounds better than no preamp at all, and whether that means it’s the pre-amp to end all pre-amps, I ‘m not sure! What it does mean is that it’s a darn good pre-amp, and one that adds, rather than deducts, and as a line-stage, it’s a real keeper.

However, with that said, my primary reason for buying the Chenin was not for its line stage, but for its phono capabilities. Wanting to get back into vinyl after a couple decade hiatus, I thought the Chenin would provide a good avenue for doing this. If it improved my CD playback all the better, but since it is doing so with such aplomb, I’m looking even more forward (if that’s possible) to the receipt of a new Galibier Quattro Turntable, and Tri-Planar Tonearm, and dusting off all the albums I’ve accumulated since the 1960’s.

Thanks again to everyone for the time spent discussing this fine pre-amp, and to Mick for catering to us “Audiophools” (he must be one himself), the Supratek Chenin is truly a wonderful product, and a great find.

Wanted you to know that the 5amp fuse solved the problem with the fuse and the addition of a Denon DL103 mc cartridge solved the problem with the phono stage. In fact the phono now sounds great.