Musicbead - the Manley is quieter than the Supratek. Less hum and less electronic noise. The Manley sounds good at low volume but tends to become harsh when the volume is turned up. The Supratek sounds good at any volume. I suspect the Manley 7044 tubes (used in the buffer stage) to be the big problem with that preamp and to cause most of the aggressive sound. I changed these tubes but could not find any which sounded better than the stock 7044. I did not try Bendix 6900 or Amperex 7119 which might have helped fix that problem. I found the Tung Sol Black Plate 5687 to darken the sound of the preamp too much.. however, others on this site have found that tube to be an improvement.
Telefunken CCa's are almost always the way to go in 6922 applications. They improve the Manley considerably.
The Phono is good on the Manley but not exactly better than the Supratek - they are different. The often mentioned "flexibility" of the Manley and all its switches is totally 100% over-rated and most of the knobs do nothing audible (very disappointing and very misleading) with typical cartridges. Of the five "adjustment" knobs, I found only one (the load setting) to make an audible difference.
The Manley will also make your woofers pump violently. It freaked me out and I began looking for rumble filters.
According to a local engineer who looked inside my Manley, there are a great many cheap parts used inside and the flimsy chassis acts like a spring inducing resonance.
That said, the Manley is actually one of the better sounding preamps available. A good value because it sounds okay in stock form (at low volumes) but could potentially be improved with some modification (replace parts inside), find better sounding buffer tubes, add a standoff in the center of the chassis which supports the top cover & keeps it from vibrating, add the DACT attenuator with remote.
Is the Manley better than a Supratek? Well... that depends on what you're looking for. To me, the Manley improved the overall listenability of the system (at low volumes) because there was less electronic noise. Electronic noise was a huge factor to me. I have dimmer switches in my home which caused the Supratek to oscillate.
One thing is for sure, you have to spend A LOT of money to do better than the Supratek given all its features, flexibility, and shocking good looks. |
Musicubed - there is someone else in this thread that went from a Supratek to the Manley. Do a search in Agon for Supratek and Manley. |
Hey guys, Jazzdude, I am wrapping up a preamp shoot out between a Tom Evans Groove +, Pass X-ONO and a Manley Steelhead.
For reference, I have owned several other preamps/phonos, including the Syrah and Rhea.
Like Brian, background noise really bothers me and for that reason, I prefer all three of these phono stages over my older Syrah. Sound wise, the Supratek is gem. I like its sonic performance. Its line stage competes very well with my EMM Labs DCC2 as well as the line section of the Steelhead. The linestage on the Syrah was very quite.
To get to the results, the winner for me is the Steelhead...at this point. The Steelhead is a bit more dynamic and much quieter in the phono section than the Syrah as well as the others listed here. I preferred using the Steelhead's MM side of the phono over the MC. The MM side gave a little more air and depth at a cost of a slight loss of fullness in the lower register. Yes, it had plenty of gain, even with a .24mv cart. Other than dynamics and noise levels(remember I am talking in my system) the Syrah and Steelhead have a lot more in common than not. Rich full mid ranges and great layering of the sound stage are just a few of the good things I will say about both of these preamps.
I did not have the same results as Brian did with his Steelhead in some areas. I have no "woofer pumping" at all, at any spl. I also do not get the harshness at higher volumes. Smooth all the way top to bottom. I might add that I ran in the Steelhead and the The Groove+ for 7 days 24/7 using the Granite audio burn in disc before putting on another 150 hours of actual music thru both of these new units. This, as well as a different tube compliment may account for the lack of harshness compared to Brian's Steelhead, I don't know.
I am using 60s Siemans 6922s and GE 5 star 5687s in place of the 7044s. I will be trying the TS 5687s next.
The cartridge termination capacitance adjustment that did not respond for Brian (two knobs per side) did make for a slight but audible difference in my system. It is set at 100pF for now.
So, as of now, the Steelhead is the best line stage and the best phono I have had in my system. Now, with any luck, my Grange will be shipped in the next few days and the Steelhead will be in a fight for its life, again. I can't wait for the next playoff game.
Cheers, Steve
P.S. has anyone heard the David Roth LP? His cover of Vincent is AMAZING! |
.
Steve,
.
I am really looking forward to hearing your comparison of your new Grange vs. the Steelhead.
.
David Roth's "Vincent" is amazing and the LP (CD) should be in everyone's collection. It is that good.
.
I hope your Grange arrives soon.
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
I searched through the threads and found that Snook2 was the other agon member that preferred the Steelhead to the Syrah. I cannot comment on the comparison myself but to note that the Syrah and Chardonnay are no Cabernet. From my experience the Supratek linestages have been very quiet. The Sauvignon produced no hum at all. The Cabernet produces only the barest amount of hum when the volume is opened up all the way. Even then it is still quieter than the kitchen refrigerator and my music server.
If I read the recent posts correctly it looks like the hum has been from the phono stage portion of the Supratek preamps. |
No hum for me! Or should I say only slightly! On phono, even if I crank up the volume all the way, or if the needle is in-between tracks and volume crank up, there is only a slight sound. I experienced a considerably louder hum at maximum volume if the tubes use (especially the 6922, try Mullard, these tubes are so noisy in my preamp and unfortunately I have 4 pairs)are not good. Otherwise, the preamp is quiet.
As for the linestage, I agree that there was never a problem there. My preamp is the Chenin with 6922 and 6C4 tubes in the phono stage. Currently using Tele CCa's and Mullard M8080's. |
Hello,
Just to chime in on the hum issue, my Cabernet hardly makes any noise at all at my listening level. Unless cranked up to a very high level, there's hardly any hum at all. I run all stock tubes except for two Ken-rad black 6sn7.
A question about "tweaking" that I would like to ask/share with others, did you replace the umbilical cords and did you notice any sound improvements? I replaced mine with a 15" pair from Mick. The pair has silver sleeves and looked better constructed than the stock ones. While I haven't done any extensive comparisons, I got the impression that the sound is fuller, more dynamic, and tighter than the stock cords. This is in part due to the better construction, less cable contamination, and less emi/rfi intervention. Mick charges $45.00 per lead for the replacement cables. I thought it was a worthwhile improvement. |
Hi Guys,
hi Steve ! I have a few comments re the noise issues that I don't quite understand. From day one I thought my Pass X-250 was a noisy b--d of a thing (through umpteen pre-amps).
Install the Supratek, lots less noise, install the HT cyberlinks - no noise.
But this is through the line stage which I think is phenomenal.
Now I have set the loading to 100 Ohms, I love the phono stage but it is way noiser than my Quicksilver - not unbearable but much noisier. What annoys me more is I am hearing surface noise and this has never been a problem in my system with any of the umpteen table/combos I own.
Tried all the gain settings on the Syrah and have it set on the lowest without resorting to the switches on the top of the unit.
In my system it sounds way more natural at the lowest gain(on the rear knob - top switches still set to high).
I'm now thinking that some adjustment for the gain on the phono would have been way more beneficial than all the variables for the total gain.
I love the phono stage in the Syrah - it's not as 'robust' as the Quicksilver but has more depth and nuance BUT - if it means sticking the Quicksilver thru the linestage to lose surface noise, that may be the way I have to go.
Before anyone says vta etc - my tables run into the teens
and using zyx's predominently means I'm happy ? to spend weeks tweaking for best effect so it's not down to my table set up.
Tried a pair of CBS red/brown base 5962S in place of the Sylvania 6SN7s - way better - same detail but much warmer and full bodied sound while retaining the dynamics.
On the question of an uprated cable between the units:
a) I would have thought screening might be beneficial over a longer length but 15" ?
b)having converted mine to 240V the gauge of the wire from iec input to transformer makes a mockery of the Shunyata beast I'm feeding it from.
On a final note as it's very late here, I would not dream of installing a tube before I had cleaned the pins and treated them with Silclear - imo a tube without Silclear is like an Irish Coffee with no cream - no comparison!
Cheers Si |
Gentlemen, exactly where does one go to actually purchase one of these Supratech preamps? The Cantec.net.au website is not working. Help!! |
|
Its been a few days since i put the TSRP6sn7s in;the first few hours they did sound thin,but within a few hours the sound started filling out ,,compared to the EH6sn7 they lack a small bit of slam,but are easier on my ears,they present the music in a more natural way,very well balanced sound,great tone,compared to the Kenrad VT231 Blackglass,they are more open,natural sounding,tighter bass,better detail,much quieter,not quite as holographic,but i think they are truer to the music,a very musical tube!!IMHO!Ive yet to try a tube that sounded bad in my Chardonnay,just diff. |
Hi,
I'm hoping someone can help with a question regarding the output for the Cortese. I need to use a bypass for home theater. I know that Mitch offers an HT bypass, but I have a chance to get a Cortese on Audiogon, but it doesn't have a bypass, only a tape loop. Does anyone know if, in fact, these are one and the same?
thanks,
Michael |
Good question.
I have a Cortese. It finally arrived last week. This pre is amazing. Worth the wait.
My question is the reverse: Can the HT bypass be used as an output to a reel to reel?
I am using balanced IC's to my amps. Balanced and unbalanced outputs can not be used at the same time with the Cortese. |
The HT bypass is used to "pass" an external processor or other source directly to the output of the Cortese. The signal goes through untouched. The HT bypass is not an output of any kind. If you want an output to a reel to reel, use the tape monitor loop by plugging the input of the reel to reel into the "REC" unbalanced outputs (see diagram in the owner's manual). That's better than using the unbalanced outputs of the Cortese (actually you can't if you're using the balanced outputs already)because the reel to reel would be getting a full signal from the Cortese, unaffected by the volume settings.
As far as the other question from Michael Smith, that would depend if the signal that you want to pass through has already gone through a gain stage. If it's coming from the front channel outputs of a standalone DVD player, it's cleaner than if the signal is coming from the front outputs of a processor with volume control because the signal is will pass through 2 gain stages, but it's still doable...just not as clean as a true HT bypass which ensures that the signal will only pass through 1 gain stage and you would not have to set the volume for the front speakers both on the HT Processor and on the Cortese. Hope that helps. |
Been following this thread from NY for a while and finally got my Cortese strictly based on your recommendations. I'm using SONY SCD1>Cortese>H20 Signatures>Aerial Acoustics 10T's. All this stuff is fantastic imo but the Cortese was the ice cream on the cake. It's realy everything you guys said it would be and then some! So I thank you all for sharing!
Need some help though. I had the Cortese being powered by a PS Audio Power Plant set at Sine Wave @117Volts/60Hz, and the Cortese worked perfect for 3 days. When I increased the voltage to 120V (as specified on the back of the Cortese), the fuse blew on the Cortese Power Supply an hour later...not sure if there's a connection or not. The rest of my equipment has been fed by the P600 power plant for the last 4 years with no problem. The Cortese uses ceramic 4 Amp slow blow fuses and a spare was not provided with the Cortese. Tried replacement glass fuses (same specs), but they keep blowing after 1 second and a faint buzzing sound. The Cortese is plugged directly into the wall socket now but it just refuses to work. I've contacted Mick but no answer so far...will try to get ceramic fuses tomorrow but I cannot tell whether the power plant understates the actual voltage that's being produced. Any one had a similar experience with blown fuses for any reason, and what was the solution? Do you know if maybe the ceramic and glass fuses are that different? The unit had already cooled down, so heat could not have been a problem when the last glass fuse blew. I'm not sure why 120 or 125 Volts or whatever voltage was output into the Cortese would be a problem. I would think that it has overload protection. |
Sonics1 - I just had an email from Mick, he was traveling and said it might be a couple days before he could check email again. But I expect you will hear from him soon. It might also be worthwhile to contact PS Audio to see if others have had any problems when adjusting voltage. Good luck. |
Tks. Tonnesen. Mick is back from vacation and he thinks that it's a defective 5AR4 tube in the power supply and he's sending a new one over along with a couple spare fuses. He's also got a friend in NY that he trusts to test out the Cortese if the problem persists. We're checking out a few other possibilities also. I did contact PS Audio and they don't believe that the Power Plant could have caused the problem no matter what the voltage was set on. Anyone on this thread using a power plant to feed a Supratek? I'll give it another run when the new tube gets here. If it starts to heat up again, I'll take it off the power plant. Got to get this baby cranking again!! The sound was unbelievably addicting while it lasted. at least I'll get some sleep at night with this down time. |
Dear fellow supratek owners
I am in the process of looking for a new power amp, that will mate well with my martin logan odysseys and cortese preamp. I am running a hybrid thing at the moment but i feel I could do better in the power department. I heard a few years back a powerful bryston pumping out a nice sound but I am not sure how this would mate with the cortese.
Requirements
1 balanced operation( live in RF hell)
2 Powerful with low gain
3 good value ?
sorry if this question has been asked before but this thread is a nightmare to read because of the paging.
I thank you all in advance
Biscuitbloke |
I use my Syrah with a Pass X-250 and really enjoy it, shame the pre does not have the psuedo - balanced output.
Heard it briefly with the X-350.5 stunning.
Not sure whats good value but the X-350.5 was £5,550 used,
more than the price of a new one in the states.
Si |
FYI Grange owners. For a relatively small (at least compared to the Grange price) expense, $675, I've just taken this preamp to an entirely different level of performance. Installed a pair of 10uf Mundorf Supreme Silver caps, a pair of .33 uf V-Cap Teflon Film & Tin Foil caps, and a 1957 Philips Mini Watt metal base GZ34. UFB. |
Jgk1017,
I installed Mundorf Silver Supremes several weeks ago and they made a huge difference. They simply killed the Auricaps that I had in their place.
A quick question. I installed a DACT attenuator in my Supratek a long time ago and it was another huge improvement. What attenuator or pot does the Grange come with? |
Fiddler,
Don't know and for me it's a moot point as I don't want to give up the remote control capability. |
Jgk1017,
A remote control is available for the DACT. |
Fiddler, not from DACT according to an email from them. |
|
Mick must agree with you on the Mundorf caps because he is now installing them as standard in the new Grange's line and phono stages. I could not talk Mick into doing the DACT though. I guess I will have to do that on my own. Question for Fiddler...does the DACT take much time to burn in? |
Funny, I can't find the web-site or the amp...... |
Vetterone,
I did notice a change during burn-in of the DACT. It sounded cleaner and clearer from the moment I put it in, but as I recall, it seemed to improve over 50 hours or so. But that's just my recollection. I can't say for sure that it was 50 hours; all I can say for sure is that it did improve with time.
The cheap Alps pot that came in my Chardonnay was fuzzy around the image edges as compared to the DACT. Consequently the imaging seemed a little more holographic with the stock pot, but clearly "less focused" than with the DACT. That may not make sense, but I will try to put it another way. The stock pot seemed as if I was listening to my system "slightly" out of phase as compared to the DACT.
I clearly prefer the DACT and I suspect now that it is fully burned in, the DACT might possibly better the Alps pot with the "holographic" thing, as well. I would have to put the stock pot back in to find out and that ain't gonna happen.
It is true that "precise imaging" of the soundstage IS NOT the way "live" music is typically rendered. Images usually seem unfocused with "live" music reproduction. But I believe ours eyes compensate for the lack of soundstage focus as they help to precisely render the sounds "we hear" with the images "we see" in our brain.
When I am listening at home, I don't have the advantage my eyes give me "live", so PRECISE imaging in my system helps enhance the illusion of "real" since my eyes can't help my brain render the soundstage. (Not sure if that makes any sense to anyone else, but that's how it seems to work for me! LOL)
So back to the DACT.
I much prefer precise imaging in my system. Could it be more hi-fi to someone else...? Sure. I guess it's just a matter preference. But one thing's for sure, I couldn't stand the fuzz of the Alps! I did a long search online before choosing the DACT and virtually every post I read extolled the virtues of the DACT over any pot. But to each his own and if Mick prefers the Alps to a DACT, who am I to argue with him!
The stock pot did have the convenience of minute volume adjustments compared to the DACT. In my system, the steps on the DACT can be a little louder than I would like, but the good news is that I can adjust the volume on my Berning ZH270 to compensate.
Now to the Mundorfs.
The difference they made in my preamp was huge. I am glad to hear Mick is now using them. I am about to try them in my Audio Note DAC in place of the Audio Note Copper caps that I used when I originally built my DAC. I will post my impressions after they burn in. I don't know if they will be superior to the AN Coppers or not, but after the difference the Mundorfs made in my Supratek compared to the Auricaps, I'm sure gonna find out! |
As a few other have done, I installed a pair of Mundorfs and a pair of V-Caps in my Grange. You'll need to find a new spot for the Mundorfs as they will not fit in the same position as the factory supplied caps and the leads must be extended. If you're handy with a soldering iron, I highly recommend this mod; just take your time. Hard to believe this preamp could sound any better but the new caps really make a difference.
Now for those Grange owners considering a Bendix 6106. Not a good idea. Other Supratek linestages/preamps might accept this rectifier but the Grange will not. The 6106 is a variation of the 5Y3 which is not a direct replacement for the factory supplied 5AR4. It is rated for only 125mA average while the 5AR4 is rated for 250mA. The Grange draws about 230mA. So if you're a roller, stay within the 5AR4 family, i.e. GZ37, GZ32, and GZ34 per the owner's manual. It took me 3 blown fuses and thankfully no other damage to learn this.
Lastly, a pair of Cca makes a huge difference in the phono stage if you can find a nice deal. |
Okay, I am sold with the Mundorf's! Where did you guys get the schematic for your pre? Or you just replace the last pair of the coupling caps of the output stage? |
Anyone tried Mundorfs in a Syrah ? |
Guess everyones too busy enjoying their Suprateks ! |
Hello Simon74,
I asked Mick if he was putting the Mundorfs in the new Cortese. He said he has not figured a way of putting them in because they are so large and the Cortese is pretty packed inside (not much empty space). |
Mick is outfitting my cabernet with these tubes. He is sending along the stock tubes, but on his recommendation, I asked him to build with these tubes. It's been along wait, 8 1/2 months, but hopefully soon I'll get the word! |
Oh the tubes, EML 45 mesh. |
.
Larryrosen,
.
Which model Supratek are you getting ?
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
|
I have in my Chenin Philips M8081 tube (in manual there is 6J6 different tube).
Does anybody have found better replacement for M8081 ? |
For all of you, all friends in this forum, who now are in hard moments because of the hurricane Katrina, I want to let you know that I share your pain. Juan (Madrid, Spain) |
I too have been doing a lot of praying for the many people affected by Hurricane Katrina.
I just got word that Mick is finally started working on my Cortese!!! |
Congrats Slowhand. Talk to you in April 2006.
:-) |
If there is anyone out there in the USA that has bought a Cortese recently, can you tell me how much the shipping and customs fees were?
Thanks,
Tom |
Tom I think my Grange was $325 give or take a few dollars for shipping, insurance and customs. Make sure you give Mick (in case he forgets to ask but that's doubtful) your social security number. It goes through customs much faster with it.
When do you expect delivery? |
.
Tom,
.
I suggest that you get Mick to insure the shipment. It seems to be his practice not to insure. I had to ask him to insure.
.
My advice is that under no circumstances should you let him ship without insurance, regardless of what he says.
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
|
|
Thanks Wc65mustang,
I am sorry. I did not see your post letting me know your shipping cost. Thanks also for the tip about giving Mick my social security number to avoid custom delays
I am really excited about getting the Cortese. It has been a long wait! But I know it will be worth it. This brings back memories of recieving my Syrah. |
i was browsing the supratek site and noticed a new supratek monoblock amps. they're just called the supratek kt88. i guess mick hasn't sobered up from all the wine yet :) i shot him an email with a few questions. anybody happen to know anything about the new amps? looks like it uses 2 kt88's, 2 6sn7's, and 1 5ar4. |
The new amps look cool as all his stuff does. What does the chrome tower on the KT88 cover or is it cosmetic?? |
Nothing to add. Just wanted to shoot for post 2000 on this thread. Do I get a prize? |
