Ethifi - picture the signal your speakers recieve as a 3-way pie chart composed of source signal, preamp signal, poweramp signal. the higher you are able to turn up the volume on the preamp then the more you hear of the preamp and the less you hear of your source and poweramp (relatively speaking). whether this will sound better or not is a matter of system synergy and listner preference. |
Jazzdude,
Sorry for the delay.
I purchased the Mundorfs from Madisound.
I can't remember if the cap values were on the stock caps or not. The stock caps were two small square caps about the size of a box of matches mounted on their sides. They are wired on one end from another larger, square cap and wired to the tube socket on the other end. They are located in the very front of the preamp.
As I recall Mick gave me the original location and value of the caps. They are 1 uf caps.
Mick could probably give you better info than me :o , but the difference in my Supratek is staggering by just replacing these two caps. |
Hey Gang. Anyone else using the Grange with the px4? I am seriously considering ordering one but I am a little apprehensive as I would have to part with either my syrah or the cortese to raise the funds. Would be nice to hear a little feedback from a supratek user that has upgraded to the Grange. I have a welbourne labs attenuator on order for the Cortese but it's currently in a back order situation. Wouldn't make the move until I have installed it in the cortese but was hoping some users will post in the meantime. Thanks David |
Ecclectique, mine is a Cabernet with PX4/300B option. IMHO, the PX4 tubes sound better to my ears than the 300Bs. The 300Bs give a stronger bass but this is a bit excessive in my small listening room. Both the PX4 and 300B tubes are manufactured by TJ. TJ also came out a PX25/5V version recently that can be a direct replacement for 300B tubes. It has the same sound as their PX4's but cost more. Nontheless, the look of the TJ PX25/5V tubes is pretty nice. |
Good morning. Anybody roll the ECC88 tubes in their Grange? If so, what do you like and/or dislike? Source would be appreciated also. Thanks in advance to all respondents.
Bill |
If any of you guys know where I can get a Morey James model 1.5 PC please let me know. |
.
Tom,
.
I have a Morey James PC (not sure if it is a 1.5), but I would be willing to sell it (and I can check to see what the model is). I think it is a 6 ft cord.
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
Hi Tom - got your email. Glad you like the MJ 1.5 - I told you it was good!! Unfortunately, there aren't many of them that I know of. When I first "announced" that cord, only a few people purchased it. You might email Moray James at: morayj1@juno.com and ask him if he can make you one if the wire is still available. I know he sells the MJ PWR2.5's which were okay but not as good as the 1.5 on the Supratek.
Tell Moray you have a Supratek and he'll know exactly what you want - keep in mind, he is always working on new stuff so... maybe there is a 3.5 or something even better to try. |
I have a problem. My 5 year old kicked a soccerball that hit the power/on off button on my PS Audio 300 which I had the Chardonney plugged into. When I turned it back on, the tube preamp produce this load hum through one of the speakers. I have not figured out how to get rid of it. I can turn the dial on the back of the unit to minimize it, but it is still there. Before this happened, it was dead quiet. Any insight would be apprecieated. Thanks |
Cello,
I will e-mail you about the Moray James cord. Thanks for the response Cello, and BWwhite. |
Hi All,
I got "the email", the one that tells you that your waiting is over. I'm feeling a bit excited...
Is there something I should ask now to Mick for my Cortese, also considering that I live in Italy, not so close?
Thanks
Sandro |
Congratulations Sandro! Just fasten your seatbelt, keep your hands and feet inside the car at all times and enjoy the ride! You are in for a real treat! |
Kclone,
Did you check the rectifier(5AR4) tube yet? Maybe it is bad and the ripple coming from the output are huge and cannot be filtered by the regulators anymore.
Or have you tried connecting it to the wall outlet and not through the PS audio?
In my experienced, instantaneous or premature power shutdown are the worst enemy of rectifier tubes.
Just my opinion of course!
Abe |
I received my new Cabernet one month ago. Mine is also the PX4/300B version. So far I can tell that the sound seems to be a little cleaner with the PX4 (TJ) then with the Western Electric 300B but I´ll check it again in one more month or so.
Ecclectique, there is a difference with the Syrah. Of course it can´t be a huge difference but big enough to pay the $5000 tag in my opinion. I don´t know about the phono section, just about the line. The sound compared with the Syrah is more clear, clean or whatever you want to define it in that direction. More presence but nacing aggressive.
I have my Syrah with all those NOS tubes that at the end seems to me the best ones: WE 350B, Tung Sol 6SN7 round plates, Mullard or Philips metal base GZ34. Even with all these expensive tubes in the Syrah the Cabernet has more emotion, more music just with the stock ones. Sorry but I can´t express myself better.
After the first week I tried the Cab with all those nos tubes and I don´t know why but the sound, so far, is better with the stock ones. Again I´ll try the nos tubes in the Cab in one more month.
David, if you can afford it I would keep the Syrah. Use it for a second system, you´ll never get something like that for that price. Besides you can use part of the same tubes (350B, 6SN7, and GZ34) in both preamps.
But in my humble opinion the Cab is worthwhile if you want to get the most of your system. I never sell neather of them.
A final recommendation for the ones that are looking for an exellent cd player, take a look to the Cary CD 303/300, it makes a terrific combination with any of the Supratek preamps.
Salud, Juan. |
HELP!
Don't have time to read the whole thread.
Bought a Syrah which I love but the phono tubes (whichever they mey be) are way too noisy for me.
Have it set on lowest gain and still getting storms of rubbish thru the phono at conservative volume.
It's kitted out with all sorts of NOS tubes and my limited experience of tubes lead to me to think I'll have to buy at least three pairs before I get a 'quiet' pair - which though?
Thanks in advance,
Simon |
Amandarae, All of the tubes seemed to be working. I have since pulled it out of the system and put another preamp in. I will wait a couple of weeks and try and tackle the problem. Thanks for the input. I will try plugging it into the wall at that time to see what happens |
Hi Gang. Ongaku, thanks for the post. Sandro, congrats on your new supratek and I am sure you will enjoy the ride. EThifi, Have you spent much seat time with the preamp in the low gain setting? If it is loud at 9 oclock on the volume control, it leaves you with a very small window for adjusting the proper gain variations of many recordings...... WCmustang....While neither my syrah nor the cortese use the ecc88 in the phono stage, I do have an ARC sp-10 and the Klimo merlin in others systems. Both employ the ecc88/6dj8/69922 family of tubes and are very fine sounding high end preamps. I have also owned as well as repaired and modified many other preamps that have employed that family of tubes. There are some great ones, some good ones and a lot of mediocre tubes in that family. Many of the nos ecc88 family of tubes have a tendency to be somewhat microphonic and can also be noisey as well. The crop of currently manufactured tubes..... while most are quiet and void of microphonics,in my honest opinion; none are fit for use in any high resolution phono circuit and to my ears "just won't make music". The pre 1970's tubes from amperex, siemens,telefunken,mullard,valvo etc are light years better than post mid 70's and 80's examples,particulary the siemens made tubes. Further more:There are a ton of re-labelled examples floating around and have been for years.In my experience, the only modern tube of any consequence is the military version of the Soviet 6n23n or 6n23ev,infact... these are the quietest tubes in the family with the tightest triode sections as well.The post 1980 phillips ecg versions are hideous sounding. The 60's version white labell Holland made Amperex [d getter versions] are terrific as well as the US amperex versions. The pre-70's Siemens e88cc's were my favs in the Sp-10 and the klimo and preferred over the Telelies and the mullards. Both versions of the legendary CCA's from either siemens or telefunken are as good as it gets in this tube family however the late 70's examples are nowhere close sonically to the earlier examples. The early Valvos [pre 70's again] red labells are great as well. One may also use the e188cc's or 7308's as subs and all of them will handle a higher voltage and are geniune 10,000 hour tubes. JPMS, Thanks for your perspective on the px-4/300b supratek options. The dilema for me is, which one to sell if I decide to go with the Grange. I am leaning more toward selling the Syrah as my cortese is considerably better sounding and far more flexible in my system. I much preferr the sound of the nos round plate 6j5's over any of the 6sn7's. There are also many more single triode substitutes for the 6j5 .... like the many vintages of the 6p5's, 6c5's,6ad5's,6ae5's,and the fabulous 7193. Due to no real commercial demand for single triode octal tubes [yet anyway]all these tubes are dirt cheap, very plentiful, and many sound better than the dual triode 6sn7. To be candid here: My apprehension stems from having my doubts about whether the px4/300b version will outperform my cortese with the above mentioned nos tubes. |
Ecclectique - I don't have the grange. My cabernet doesn't use the px4 or 300b. But comparing the linestage section between the Mick's upper and mid-line preamps I am certain that the grange will easily best the cortese. Mick can easily put the 6j5 in place of the 6sn7 if that is what you prefer. Basically all the nos tubes you currently use for the cortese can also be used in the grange with the addition of the px4 or 300b.
I have spent some time with some very fine systems including one all-tube system with vinyl front-end and total system cost exceeding $200k USD. My humble system with a SS poweramp has more tone than any system that I have ever heard including the one I just mentioned. The cabernet is what puts me over the top. |
Hi Jazzdude. Thank you for your prompt response. I have little doubt the line of the Grange will best the cortese with the same single triodes in it for line gain. But is the cost of going that route really justifiable? If I do order one it will definately be wired to accomodate a pair of single triode octals per channel as opposed to the dual triode 6sn7.I can always rewire the sockets to accomodate the 6sn7's anyway.The delema here is: My main rig is voiced primarily for vinyl playback as I rarely listen to digital in that system, thus my apprehension in regards to going to the grange. I would have to sell either the cortese or the syrah to do so. I am leaning toward selling the syrah at this point as I will move the cortese into my second system to replace the syrah if finances permit. My cortese is just incredible with the 7193 in it!!! however the influence of the line gain is negligable at best when using the phono stage of the cortese anyway... thus my anxiety here.Anybody in the Golden Horseshoe of Ontario with the grange or cabernet? |
PS: Jpms. You are a true gentleman sir! I sincerely appreciated your email today, thanks again. cheers David |
David:
[/Have you spent much seat time with the preamp in the low gain setting?]
Yes, I did but found that the sound was weaker, more backward and image lacked substance compared with the high gain setting. **sigh ** I wrote to Mick about it and he said it had to do with my power amp. I'm saving up for a Antique Sound Lab (either a Hurricane or AQ-1009) - heard them few weeks ago and fell in love with the live music they made!
Cheers Edmund |
Hi Edmund. The ASL 1009's are fabulous amps for the money. |
|
Ecclectique, Greetings.
Are you the person that emailed me stating never to sell my Fidelity Research tonearm. You helped me in sourcing a FR headshell for it. I wanted to thank the person but had lost the email address. (Incidentally I love the FR arm).
If not, sorry to bother.
Own a Chenin and apologize to butt in on the thread about FR products (kind of the same though, true classics one just newer than the other).
Regards, Steelhead |
Guys, consider giving this thread a rest and starting new, topic-specific Supratek threads. It is incredibly hard to sift through the information on the 1850+ posts. |
Hi David,
How would you describe the sound of the single triode tubes compared to the 6sn7's. I know that you have stated that you like them better, but what do you hear as the difference in the way they sound. I am still on the fence as to having Mick set my Cortese up for dual single triodes or 6sn7's. Mick seems to prefer the 6sn7 setup. He thinks it has a sweeter sound.
By the way, I am trying my friend,s 1621 metal tubes in the regulator position now. First impression is that they have a crisp sound with good bass, but a little too bright on the top end for me. I will have to use them more to form a better opinion. |
Can anyone tell me if there are other options as to the inputs on the back of Supratek preamps. I would not use tape inputs or home theater bypass. All my music consists of LP's and CD's. Would another phono input with 4 more phono setting be a better idea? What other things have some of you guys had Mick do as far as inputs on the back of your Suprateks? |
Hi Steelhead. Yeah, Your very welcome sir and I'm glad your happy with it, a superb tonearm for mc cartridges. congrats on your chenin. cheers David |
Forgive the intrusion, just to share my excitement, I have the Cortese in my car and in few minutes I'm leaving my office and bringing it at home. It took four days to get it from Australia to Italy, in my hands, incredible.
Thanks to everyone for this thread and the helpful answer I got in the past.
Sandro |
Hello,
I have two questions.
1.) For Chenin owners, Can you share your phono tubes currently in use please? I am enjoying great results with Mullard M8080 and TFK E88CC/CCa or Phillips 6922.
2.)Anybody using a Sylvania 6SN7Wxx tall or short bottle in their Supratek's? Thoughts, impressions?
So far, I have the Tungsol, KenRad, Raytheon, Sylvania, and RCA. All are VT-231.
Thanks |
Sandro,congrads on recieving your Cortese!!!! |
So, nobody is using Sylvania 6sn7Wxx on their unit? |
Amandarae - I tried out the Sylvania 6sn7W short-bottle with black bakelite base in my Sauvignon a couple years ago. To the best of my recollection the bass was big and kind of tubby. The upper midrange and teble were closed in. I don't have any lasting impessions of the midrange. |
Thanks JazzDude! Coming from you, I should not worry about getting them tubes then.
Thanks again! |
Hi Guys,
My Syrah is working pretty well but I have yet to find the perfect combination of tubes to maximize its potential. This thread is so time consuming and I'm so lazy! Has anyone compiled a list of tube compliments that are proven to work well together? I'm talking about complete nine tube compliments. It would sure be helpful.
Also, has anyone experimented with tube shields in an attempt to lower the noise floor? I don't find the amount of tube/circuitry noise to be a problem since my speakers are reasonably inefficient but I would think it would be annoying with some speakers. The 6SN7's seem to be very prone to noise issues and I'm wondering if all the tubes are perhaps picking up noise from each other. |
Hello Lugnut,
Good to hear from you. Here is my favorite tube compliment in my Syrah.
Tung Sol 6sn7 Round Plates
Rogers 6f6g's or Genelex KT66's
Amperex 5842's
Mullard 6GK5's
Bendix Redbank 6106 or Tung Sol 5Y3's
The 6f6g's have a more dynamic sound, the KT66's have a more laid back sound with a fatter bass (good for the Jazz I like).
Hope this helps. |
Lugnut - the preferred tube compliment will vary with your tastes. I don't recall ever noticing a recurring full tube compliment. There are definately some individual tube positions where some consensus has developed. Why don't you give us an idea what kind of sound you are looking for.
Try Hal-O tube dampers if you have issues with microphonic tubes. |
Thanks Slowhand. That's exactly what I need. Jazzdude, I don't have issues with microphonics. What I notice is that very quiet 6SN7's are difficult to find. There is a background noise that is circuit noise. I'm guessing that since the tubes are so close to each other that they may be picking up noise from each other. I was wondering if anyone has placed a temporary grounded shield around each tube to lower the noise floor. No need for me to try this if others already have. Again, it's not that noisy and I'm not disappointed. Can't blame me for wanting it to be totally silent. |
Hello Patrick,
Congrats on your Syrah! My recommendations for rectifiers and regulators are as follows:
Mullard Metal Base Gz34 - by far, the best in my set up. Followed closely by the regular black base variety. In my Chenin, the 6106 produces a "chugging" sound on the phono section, so I cannot use them. One good bargain is the Mullard "Dynaco" branded GZ34 you can find at Ebay often. Also, the IEC Brand but Holland made GZ34's are great.
The 6F6G's(I have Sylvania's) are good in mine as regulators. But I am currently using the Sovtek 6L6GC's that Mick recommends. Very cheap but very nice in my system. I bought it as a match pair (within 2%) for $50 plus shipping. I noticed a little "thinness" on the phono section with the 6F6G's but does not have it with the Sovtek. In my set up only of course.
As for the phono, your preamp and mine uses different type of tubes so I hope some Syrah owners can share their experiences with you. Oh, one more thing, I have the PSU and the Preamp on Audiopoints (the smaller version)and I really like the results. As if more clarity and definition (but does not upset the weight)had been added to the presentation. I think it has something to do with "channeling" the vibrations from tubes away from the platform. Maybe you will like it. Just aks Tom (TWL)about the points. He works for the manufacturer in which I am not affiliated to by any means.
Happy 4th!
Abe |
Hello All, The tube line up in my Chenin is as follows.....Power supply, a superb [well burnt in] 1954 Bendix 6106. Regulators, A very early mirror matched pair of Sylvania 6F6Gs, clear glass ,old style round logo and etched base,very handsome looking .These are one of two pairs of 6F6gs I have.The Bendix and 6f6gs are [outstanding] inexpensive up grades in over all performance of the Chenin.6SN7s,A good pair of Tungsol black glass round plates.For me ,vocals have to sound right.With the Tungsols in place,Ella,Nat Cole,Sarah Vaughn ect.ect.are truly superb.One recent L.P. purchase,Joan Baez,Diamonds and Rust.The recording is one of the top best I have,the vocals captured on this L.P.are truly uncanny.I had a pair of Sylvania tall glass metal base in place afew months ago along with a used Dutch made bugal boy metal base GZ-34.Listening to Rock,Pink Floyd, Yes, The Who ect,I never heard them like this on a two channel system.It was a heavy experience.On Jazz and Folk,it was not as involving as my current choice of tubes .The phono stage,I use a mirror matched pair of 1949 R.C.A. black plate 6C4s and a pair of Philips Miniwatt S.Q. gold pins,the test values on these Miniwatts are outstanding.I did more switching of power supply tubes then any others in my Chenin.For me ,the Bendix is the one.One final note , my pre. is quiet as a church mouse...Love it. |
Hi Gang: Yes indeed, quiet 6sn7's are hard to find and all of that family of tubes tend to be somewhat prone to microphonics. Herbies tube dampeners are a blessing here as well as isolation. The Metal base GZ-34/5ar4 is without doubt the finest sounding of that family of rectifiers. When using substitute rectifiers like the 5v4,gz33,5z4,gz37,6106 etc,it is imperative that they test above 95% and both sides measure the same. The chugging sound some are experiencing here when playing vinyl is due to the excessive voltage drop of the rectifier type used. Insert a weak rectifier of any type and you may experience this artifact regardless of type, however the gz34/5ar4 will not exhibit this trait until it's much weaker than the others.Furthermore, ones choice of regulation tubes will not have any impact on this artifact. While a weaker rectifier may work in many other applications... they will be of marginal success in any of the supratek's that employ a phono stage. I have a nos Valvo gz-34 [test's just below 90%]that I use in a pair of vintage siemens klangfilm amps and they ehibit this trait in both the cortese and the syrah when using the phono stage. I also experience the same thing with a nos 5v4 and a Bendex 6106 and they both test above 90%. " Important Note"... all of the rectifiers that are employed in the supratek's are of the "indirectly heated" full wave variety, the 5y3gt mentioned else where is a "directly heated" rectifier type and not recommended. The use of directly heated rectifier types in the suprateks will eventually strip the cathodes of your other tubes. Not a good thing for those employing rare and expensive nos tubes. A directly heated rectifier will cause premature tube life with the other tubes as the getter of the tubes is used up quickly releasing gas in the tube.When cold,the gas molecules are struck by high energy electrons from the cathode, being positive they are attracted to the negative grid. The gas molecules will shoot right past the grid and onto the cathode,and therefore eventually eroding the cathode surface and compromises the life of the tubes. The other tubes employed in the preamp should not have instantanious voltage applied until they are warm, this allows the tubes getter to absorb the gas molecules that have accumulated from that last use of the preamp. |
The last several posts have been most valuable to me. Thanks to all of you! |
Hi Guys,
great posts.
Loving my Syrah.
Just bought another pair of Sylvania 6GK5s & a pair of Western Electric 5842s for the phono section.
The 6GK5s are duplicates of whats in place. The Western Electrics seem to hang an image centrally a bit better than
the Raytheons it came with. Tried some Creatura tube dampers on the 5842s - they have worked well for me in the past but I worry the valves are so small, the dampers may be
making them run too hot?
Not tried the NOS MullardGZ34 yet as the guy I bought it from said the 5AR4 was better - maybe the Mullard is below par?
As a matter of habit I have sat both pre & psu on Final Labs Dharumas so that both units 'float'. I can feel no vibration getting to the units even in my small listening room.
The new pairs of valves were bought as one or more of the valves in the phono section was a bit noisy - nothing too troublesome - the new ones have the same problem - ah well I knew I would have to buy at least 3 different pairs to get a quiet set !
Love the amp & can't wait to try some different power cords - using a PS Statement at the moment but will probably end up using a Shunyata of some description to keep
synergy with the rest of the system.
Tried the gain setting at 3 which gives solidity to the sound but bloats the bass a bit over setting 2 (Pass Labs X-250). Will just keep experimanting but any pointers welcome
Tung sol 5881 red/brown base mil spec
Sylvania black base 6SN7s
and the aforementioned in the phono/rectifier sections.
Happy listening,
Si |
Ecclectique,
Thanks for the very "educational" explanation on why the chugging sound on the 6106 and not on the 5AR4. As a habit, I researched all the things you said and they are spot on frrom what you said as far as the difference between the two tubes are concern. For me, I will keep the 5AR4!
Anybody looking for a NOS (not even a minute used!) 6106 and a used pair as well? :) |
While we're back on tube rolling in the Supratek pre's, I thought I'd offer a suggestion that I haven't seen yet. I believe it was the "Supretek Tubes for Everyone" post where someone talked about how much they liked the sound using a 5y3. Later, in that post and here, it was correctly mentioned that this tube should not be used since it is directly heated. There is an alternative. The Mazda 5Y3GB. Characteristics wise, this is a 5Y3. Where it differs is that it is indirectly heated. This rectifier has an ST shaped bulb and has a pretty cool filament glow to it. I've been using one in my Syrah for several weeks now with no ill effects. It's currently replacing a NOS metal based Philips GZ34 and drops the voltage to the regulators by approximately 20vdc over the GZ34. The tube is not yet fully broken in. As such, I would characterize the main difference in sound to be that the circuit does not roll off the HF as much with the 5Y3GB as with the GZ34. This is in both the line and phono stages. If you have bright system, this tube may not be for you. I had to back off the mid frequency L-pads on my Altec Model 19's due to them being overly bright after this swap. The 5Y3GB is relatively inexpensive and can be had at several different online sites. A search will quickly show these vendors.
Do this at your own risk, YMMV, and all the other usual disclaimers.
Steve |
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the post. I was the guy who said he liked the sound of the 5Y3 rectifier. This sounds like an interesting alternative. Do you feel that this tube sounds pretty much like other 5Y3's? |
Slowhand,
I really can't say. I have little experience with 5Y3's. I primarily use or have used GZ34's, EZ81's, 5U4's, and 5R4's. This is an interesting tube, though it's too early to say whether I'll keep it in circuit or go back to the GZ34. My feeling is that this tube would sound best in a system that is on the warm side or lacking a bit in the HF area.
I think it's important to note that like any other tube rolling, the sound one hears with a tube change is so dependent on the circuit, components, room, ears, etc. that in my opinion, it's pretty darn subjective. The sounds and levels in the music that I hear may be completely different from what someone else is hearing, even in the same set up.
Steve |
Sburke. Thanks for the imfo in the your last post. It sounds very much like a bendex 6106 whereby it takes a long time to energize. |
Ecclectique, you're welcome. When you say energize, do you mean break-in or warm-up? I've got a 6106 but haven't tried it yet. I know these are very rugged. Does the filament/cathode take a while to warm up? I've read the threads that state the 6106 takes a good while to break in. The 5Y3GB filament/cathode warms up as quickly as any other indirectly heated rectifier that I've used. Too early to tell if a couple hundred hours will make a difference in the sound. |
sure I've seen this before but will the syrah cope with the slight increse in current required for a Philips miniwatt GZ37 rectifier ??
It's way too expensive not give the promised results.
Thanks in advance
Si |
