Preamp Deal of the Century

Congrats Kevin,

When did you place your order for the chardonnay? I am sure you will have many happy days of listening bliss.

i placed the order back in august, but i made some late changes so that probably slowed it down some.

Abill,

I have the Denon 103R and works great on the RB250. Mine is OL Silver (moded 250). I know it is a little bit high from your budget stand point, but the arm needs a medium to low compliance cartridge because of the mass. Another good match when I have the RB300 is the Benz Ace series which can be bought used at around $250. Also, the regular Denon 103 is another cart you could consider and I believe is priced lower than the R version.

regards

Hi Gang. Hey Kevin, congrats sir. Abill, do you know the output of the Stanton? It may be a little high for the phono stage of the cortese and could overload it.

Kevin,congrats ,,,let us know how it sounds

I haven't seen anyone comment on the 6moons review of the sauvignon yet. So this is just to let everyone know where it is.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/supratek2/sauvignon.html

Jazzdude,check my 2 20 05 post,i read the review ,good informative review,the Chardonney review has some nice pictures too,i have a Chardonney on order,,Kevin,hope everythings going well with your new preamp!looking forward to reading your thoughts ,,,Lugnut,,i hope your preamp problem has been resolved!im thinking about ordering some NOS tubes while im waiting,,,,is the Tubestore a good place to to start ?

Ray, thanks for thinking about me and the preamp problem. I'm ready to throw in the towel since I'm way over my head here. My opinion is that Mick needs an authorized US repair person. The expense and wasted time shipping gear to Australia and back is just too much to expect out of supposedly valued customers, IMO. If this has happened to Steve and I it's just a matter of time until others are similarly affected. In no way is this a criticism of the performance of this gear when it's working right. I'm just pointing out something that Mick should address. Bottom line is that I'm truly heartbroken. I'll probably not have this in my system. To make matters worse my old Audible Illusions went belly up and repair will exceed it's value. Now I'm using my sucky solid state unit. Ouch!!

Having heard Edgar's Chardonnay in his room last summer and having had one of the first Syrahs, I would like to comment on what he and I heard in our two Suprateks. He says, "A mild criticism I had of the Chard (much as I looked for something for crying out loud) was its soundstage, which I found to be marginally narrower and shallower than I was used to from my previous reference preamp." I have not heard the new Sauvignon which he says is far superior, but this is one reason why I abandoned Supratek.

The Exemplar preamps all give a very wide and realistic sound stage. I do not know what is at the base of the Sauvignon's improved performance in this area, but Edgar thinks it is a better power supply. If so, Syrah and Chard users should seriously consider the Sauvignon in my opinion. although it is far more expensive than the Exemplar $2500 line stage.

As I am notorious on another thread for extolling the benefits of the H-Cat solid state preamp, especially it PRECISE sound stage, I naturally would say that it too is a better investment if realism in sound reproduction is your goal.

Hi Patrick.Hang in there partner. Steve is going to send me his syrah and I will try to source out the bugs in it. cheers David

Lugnut,sorry to hear about your A.Illusion preamp ,hope you get back up and runnin soon!!!

I have received emails from an individual who has heard both the Exemplar and the H-Cat and he said he had never heard such garbage. I have no dog in this fight, but I trust and respect the opinion of the source.

TBG (Norm) are you still a dealer for Exemplar? (I know you were listed as a dealer on their website at one time). I am sure very few are aware of that fact! As I recall, an AA board member warned you to register as a dealer and to stop saleshacking for Exemplar on the Asylum.

And do you have any financial or personal arrangement with Roger (H-Cat)?

Several "good ears" who have heard both the Exemplar and H-Cat have had wildly varying experiences (bad) as compared to yours. As I said in an earlier post, maybe some people may prefer another preamp over the Supratek, but I don't ever remember anyone saying a Supratek sounded, weird, strange, unnatural, etc. as some have described the H-Cat. But then again, I suspect they have no "incentive" to report anything other than the facts.

Hi,has anyone heard anything new about the DAC? I'd rather not bother Mick,just curious.
Kirby

last i heard it was supposed to be non-oversampling, non-digital filter and retail for about $500-$700. that's about all i've heard from mick.

Zachzdb, I wrote to Mick last week to ask about his DAC. He said this baby would be ready for shipping later this year. I did not ask how much but someone in this thread mentioned ~USD500. Anyway, below is the extracted from Mick's email:

"We've got a good DAC, but it doesn't sound like SACD- it sounds like vinyl!"

kenji

Is it safe to assume that it (DAC) will have a tube output stage? I wonder if the powersupply will be tubed also. I would like a SS DAC, maybe with no opamps on the output stage.

Mick indicated to me that it wil NOT be tubed, it will be SS.

Thanks all,sounds like it should be very interesting to see and hear when it's ready.
Kirby

I have scanned with interest this thread, seeking info about perceived differences between the First Sound family of linestages and the Supratek family.
It seems that a probable majority of posters prefers Supratek devices over the First Sound Presence II. On the other hand, First Sound has a wide range of devices, very much like Supratek, with approx 15 different models. A number of chassis ranging from 2 to 6 per unit. Power supplies ranging from approx 200K MF to over 500K MF. Choice of series step attenuators or ladder step attenuators in the volume controls. Choice of Holco or Vishay resistors in the volume controls. MIT, Cardas or custom copper capacitors. A variety of wiring and grounding designs.
I have not had the fortune yet of listening to either the First Sound directly, or the Supratek family as such I cannot comment on audible differences. yet I seem to have observed that the comparisons this far may have been mostly between various models of Supratek against the lower models of the First Sound lineup only. Has anyone performed some matrix comparisons? Or at least compared the higher end Supratek against the higher end First Sound models in the Paramount, Special Edition and Statement series?

Thank you TVAD, loved your post!
But no, alas I have no bias. Rather I think in matrices. I was just observing and pointing out the slightly skewed distribution of comparisons in this thread and tried, and should say succeeded, to elicit a reaction. I did speak to Emmaneuel just today: unfortunately there is no First Sound in Austin where I live. Next week I'll be travelling to D.C. but there is no FS dealer there either. There is a proud FS owner in Virginia, not far from D.C., but that is outside of the D.C area.
I should really kick myself though. In january I ended up in Florida in the general vicinity of High End Palace and should have visited there, but did not realize Larry Diaz carried First Sound at the time.
I am delighted that you are defending FS!!

Actually, I am also interested in anyone who has heard both First Sound and Supratek units in a reasonably direct comparison.

Didn't Waltersalas own the First Sound PD2 before he bought his Syrah? Don't remember if he had them both at the same time but he did mention his preference for the Syrah. Hopfefully he will read this and speak up.

Thank you TVAD for the well thought railing.
Product line analysis is a very interesting exercise. The sweet spot of any given brand may lay anywhere along the range, from the most expensive unit to the least.
As for ways to enjoy this hobby and related shopping/researching activities, there are a nearly infinite ways to enjoy it/them. Clearly though, unless I find an FS dealer on the way of my work travels in the next few months, I will likely need to create a black-cloaked side trip to a relevant watering hole.
In the meantime I will keep asking questions on this site on areas of interest to me. Thank you for your understanding.

This is a world class preamp, which is handbuilt by the designer with bespoke components, NOS valves, short circuit paths and everything else you desire (www.tron-electronic.com). Technical points aside, it sounds like natural, as if all the grain has been lifted from the recording. Check out Ed Barker's review in 6 moons.com.

.

Get a Denon 103 or a 103r. This is the best out their for the money and especially in your price range. I would suggest you spend the extra $ 50.00 and get the 103r version.
.
Do spend some money on some good NOS tubes for your Cortese if you have not already. I would highly recommend getting a good matched pair of NOS or good used Tung Sol Black Glass Round Plate 6sn7's for your Cortese, they are well worth the $ 250.00 that it will cost you. Then change the Rectifier and Regulator tubes. Email me off line if you want some recommendations.
.
Best Regards,
Larry
.

Rgds,
Larry
.

The URL posted above is invalid.

I think this is the right URL TRON ELECTRONICS? Direct links to the PRODUCTS You'll need to scoll down the page.

I think there are at least a few of us fortunate enough to have had both the First Sound and Supratek preamps in our systems at various times, and in all fairness I should preface my remarks by saying it seems to be a split decision on which is "better." I recall reading somewhere in these forums--perhaps it was in this same thread, many chapters back--that one member definitely preferred the First Sound, and I believe he had the same iteration I had, which was the Presence Deluxe Mk2. While I very definitely admired the characterics of the First Sound, in the end I found that I preferred the Syrah, a judgment that comes with all the usual qualifiers (in my system, according to my listening preferences, etc.).

So my impressions, for whatever they're worth:

First of all, I thought the First Sound had absolutely stunning dynamics, jaw-dropping as the cliche goes, but an apt description of my reaction the first time I heard the unit. Another quality I admired was the First Sound's uncanny black background, much better in this regard than the Supratek (although I have found that if you are very patient, you can do wonders lowering the noise floor with the Supratek with various tweaks--isolation is really important, as are finding the right tubes, of course. My Syrah is quiet now, but still not as eerily quiet as the First Sound was).

On the other hand, and I guess this is where the battle will be joined, over time I just felt that there was something not quite right with the First Sound in my system. While I continued to be impressed with the slam and absolute clarity of the First Sound, I felt that the soundstage was somehow slightly more compressed than I would want from a tube preamp. Granted, I had solid state amps--Bel Canto EVO 200.2 monoblocks for awhile, and then a Plinius SA-102--and the issue may be entirely one of synergy. But I can also say that I traded notes with another owner of a First Sound--who also admired it--and he had pretty much the same take on it in his system. He eventually moved to a Joule preamp, and said the soundstage was much more layered, more holographic, with the Joule which is just how I felt when I moved over to the Supratek.

For me, the Supratek, properly matched, tweaked, and tubed, simply gets the music right more than any other preamp I have heard. It strikes the right balance between dynamics and slam, crossed with the liquidity and magic of tubes. I have lived with it for a couple of years now, and the only time I ever think of upgrading is when Mick comes out with his latest and greatest. But with two kids--including a newborn--I doubt I will be upgrading anything any time soon, unless it is my spending priorities. That's OK, though. As long as I have the Supratek around, I'll be happy as a clam.

If it is practical for you, I suggest you try both in your system and keep the one you like best. Should be a cinch to sell the runner-up. Was for me.

.
Walter, nice post. I would add that as good as the Syrah is, Mick's newer circuit designs have greatly enhanced the sound re-production.
.
The sound of a Supratek also keeps getting much better as you travel up the model line.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

Sorry, it should be www.tron-electric.com. The new review is on http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/tron/syren.html

Thank you Walter and larry.
Walter, did you employ stock tubes on the First Sound and Supratek, or did you apply NOS to them?
Larry, you justly point out that sound quality rises along the Supratek lineup. According to Emmanuel Go this may also be a significant fact in the FS lineup.

.
Guidocorona,
.
Please do keep in mind that comparisons and expreriences along with associated opinions formed from earlier Supratek models have absolutely nothing to do with the value of the current models. I can tell you from owning an older Suprattek Pre and a current model that the newer models are just amazingly better (with no slight to the earlier models).
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

im wondering why no ones done an audiogon product review on any of the Suprateks,,,

I just wanted to share a photo of my Supratek. It's supported on a Sistrum platform, which apart from the sonic advantages, looks very cool IMHO:

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1112246444.jpg

Rack support is an Adona double stand. I believe I've noticed sonic improvements with both supports added, although still tweaking things. The sistrum may be overkill for support for this application - the improvements were more substantial with the SP-004 platforms I added to my Virgo II speakers.

I used to get a lot of comments/questions from guests on the Supratek, but I get even more now that the Sistrum is under it. Looks pretty aggressive. I guess the subjec is covered somewhere in this long forum, but I'd be curious to learn what others have found for optimum support for this great preamp.

Cello(Larry)-When you say the newer models are better,which model did you mean? I have an older Syrah,from reading this thread I took the recent improvements to be centered mainly in the phono section of the Cortese or did I miss something? I understand that Mick has continued to improve things along the way,it just seemed like he was happy with the Syrah and most of the large development was on other models.
Kirby

Outlier, the setup looks real cool and sexy! I wish I could do that to my Cabernet. Too bad I live in an active seismic zone....:(

Mick did some wonderful things to my Cabernet - now it is even more quiet and transparent than before. Write to the Man if you want to know more since I'm not a techie.

Kenji

how long was the delivery time on your Suprateks,once the unit shipped?

Ray - 3 days to the west coast.

thanks Bwhite,im in S.Fla.,,ive arranged to be off work the day its delivered,maybe ill arrange to pick it up at the Fedex building in town to save a few hours of waiting,,,hee hee

.
Ray,
.
Mick shipped to me on a Monday and I had it in hand on Thursday afternoon.
.
Let us know when you receive it and have had a chance to give it a listen after a little break in.
.
Remember, it will get a whole lot better after some break-in and some NOS tubes after you have around 300 hours on it can do some real wonders as well.
.
I would suggest that you run your CD player 24/7 (lower volumes are fine) when not playing LP's. It will get you there much faster.
.
Good Luck,
Larry
.

mine shipped on wednesday 3-23 and i picked it up from fedx on friday 3-25. the shipping is super fast. the build time is something else. :)

Ray,
.
One other comment. Make sure that Mick gives your Social Security number to Fed Ex or they might hold the shipment for an extended period. I think Mick knows this by now, but just in case, make sure you have given Mick your SS and ask him to give it to Fed Ex when he drops off your pre-amp.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

thanks for the responses,my Chard. will ship out Mon.,, Hello Larry,thanks for the info,i sent my SS. to Mick twice,i will take your advice on breakin,,,im guessing that the Chard is going to be big improvement over my current pre,the choices of Nos tubes available seems overwelming to me,im sure when the time comes i can depend on you guys for advice,,thanks guys!

Ray,
Congratulations on the pending shipment! You are in for a fun ride! Try to to touch base with Mick Sunday night to ENSURE that your SS number is on those shipping documents. Otherwise, your Chard. is gonna sit in Anchorage customs.

Slipknot,i will email Mick Sunday ,,,i sure dont want to wait any longer than i have to!!thanks,boy,im sure looking forward to this!!!!!!!

.
Ray,
.
Just let us know when you are ready to roll some tubes. I am sure the group can and will give you some ideas on tubes and sources.
.
Do scroll way back a bunch a read posts from Ecclectique, Jazzdude, Bwhite, and a few others. It will give you a primer on what tubes you might consider trying. It will also help pass the time and keep your mind off waiting for your pre to arrive.
.
I can tell you that the good NOS make all the difference in the world (esp. the 6sn7's).
.
Keep us posted.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

Hi Guys,

Has anyone recieved one of the New Cortese preamps with the new 3 stage all direct coupled phono stage? I have one on order from Mick, but I am dying to know what it sounds like. Mick says it is a huge leap ahead in sound for the phono stage.

>>Has anyone recieved one of the New Cortese preamps with the new 3 stage all direct coupled phono stage?<<

My new Grange should arrive in a few weeks; I'll email you shortly thereafter with the scoop.