Power Help - What Conditioner - WHERE?

That’s a lot of stuff. The best would be to connect the minimum for a 2 channel stereo in one location and to a direct line. A power conditioned for the streamer through turntable through preamp… and amp in the other socket. I’m trying to be realistic… most of your equipment is modest.. so you don’t want to get carried away.

Then move the rest of the stuff as far away as possible, different room.
 

If you have no choice but combined HT and audio… not a great choice… same deal.

let the power conditioner (s) be priced appropriately… like on the order of cost of a good component in your system. Look to Shunyata, or IsoTech. 
 

The best systems have the fewest high quality single function components in one location. An ideal system today is a high quality stand alone streamer, DAC, Preamp and amp with a power conditioner for everything except amp. 

Furman P-2400 - 20A with built in voltage regulation, series mode protection and linear filtering.  

The one caveat is that for any power conditioner you run into the issue of attaching dirty power supplies to the clean side and re-polluting it, even with multiple filter banks. 

If you run a lot of wall wart appliances like switches, Roku, etc. you may want to add a separate PST-8 just for them or use iFi power supplies. 

And for sure, keep your PC/laptop supplies out of your clean power side. 

Furman power conditioners don't improve sound

we would recomend  using two conditioners one for your amplifiers

and one for other devices

our very large reference theater uses two conditioners 

main conditioner clarus concerto completely non current limiting list 4,000 

the we use an isotek sigmas for the rest of the system

dave and troy

Audio Intellect NJ

Thanks for the input guys. I am trying to use the equipment I have already acquired. I have the XE-12, but it is not in use. Lots of outlets. Full 20a connection. I also have the two BPT units. The Balance Power BP-2 is 15a and the BP-3.5 is 20a. I am pretty sure if I connected all of this equipment via the 20A circuit, we would have enough current/amps, but I am open to discussion of using one of the BPTs to be dedicated to my wall wart stuff. Challenge is much of it ends up back in my Pre/Pro, and if I understand my reading/research, I am better off putting all devices off that single circuit?  If yes, what order? XE-12 to power the BPT units, and then connect all my Pre/Pro - Source equipment to the smaller BP2, and the Amplifiers to the BP-3.5?  With all these wall warts, I will need to use a power strip that better handles their configuration.

Your Sound Application XE-12 is a wonderful unit. I'd be trying to hookup as many pieces to this unit as possible keeping the digital plugged into the appropriate outlets. Keep in mind to use a very good ac cord from wall to the Sound Application unit. Yes it uses a 20amp inlet but you can buy an adapter for using a standard ac cord. Good luck.

Are you saying not to use any power conditioning equpment for 2-Channel? I am a full believer in the BPT, as it has really dropped my noise floor, but looking for ideas for the entire rack. My Pre/Pro is the master of all of this, so I think it needs to be on a BPT. Appreciate your thoughts.

@ghdprentice summed it up well, and more diplomatically than I could at that. 

The amp is the only thing you want plugged into the wall without power conditioning. The rest of the equipment should be on power conditioning. 

@ghdprentice spot on

If you don't have separate lines, then plug audio gear into your best conditioning device and everything else into a separate one, such as a surge protector etc.  Preferably they would be on separate lines but otherwise another outlet is preferable. 

If you have any nearby plugs that run on a different circuit, consider running a line or surge protector on that line with all your AV.  If this isn't an option, just do what @ghdprentice said.  I would also try unplugging your digital from your main power conditioner and see if that makes a difference sonically. 

I am not familiar with the devices you listed for power conditioning etc but ultimately the main thing is separating your audio components from the noise of the rest of your AV system.  I have this same issue in my living room.  I have a fairly high end shunyata power conditioner though and I plug my noisiest stuff into the digital side(TV, other digital devices) and my amplifiers (active subs, main amplifier) into the analog side.  This is what Shunyata instructed I was happy with the results.

If you can afford an older Shunyata unit at some point (MPC-12, older Denali units, Hydra units) I highly recommend it, although I have never used the stuff you've listed.  After using one in my studio I finally found a super good deal on an MPC-12 and pulled the trigger for my AV system and it made a world of difference.  At the end of the day, if you just follow these instructions, that's probably the best you can do.  Also last note - separate cables as much as you can.  I know it's a rat's nest but separating power from speakers/interconnects/other power cables as best as you can is important.

Here is a bit more inffo.  I have two circuits sitting right at the back of my AV Rack. One is 20a and the other is 15a. They are dedicated and wired straight to the box.

Do I take "Noisy" equipment (PC, Drobo/USB HD, Network Switch) and connect them to the 15a circuit, even though the PC connects via HDMI to my Pre/Pro for playback of Movies and Music? I would run this through a BPT BP-2.

Amplifiers, I was planning on using the BPT BP-3.5 for all my amps, and then connecting the BPT to the XE-12 which would be the only device connected to the 20a circuit. Is that a good idea?

Again, remember I already have all this equipment. The XE-12 does remediate/filter DC power out of the line, so no need for my Emotiva CMX-2.

Basic set-up 101:

- Plug the digital components into the BPT 3.5 balanced power conditioner.   Plug this conditioner into the 15amp circuit. The digital components don’t draw much load. 

- Plug the analog components into the XE-12.  Plug it into the 20amp circuit. 

- The XE-12 does not appear to be current limiting.  It should easily be able to handle the amp.  Listen with the amp plugged into the XE-12 and then listen directly into the wall.  Be sure to wait at least an hour before critical listening.  A quick A/B comparison means nothing.

- If possible, put the cable box/modem/router/switch on a completely different line and/or room. Plug these into the BP-2 power conditioner.   Or - temporarily run a heavy-duty extension cord from a 3rd circuit in a different room for these digital units.   This experiment will give you an idea if it’s improving the SQ.  Make sure that the 3rd circuit is actually independent - and not shared by the same leg on a common wall.

- - -

After everything settles in for a few days, unplug only the HT gear completely.   Critically listen to the 2 channel audio only for a few hours.  Then start plugging in the HT components one by one - and turn each on.  You’ll hear how the SQ changes.

- - -

Isolating analog from digital is very important.    And isolating digital from digital is also important.   Digital components regurgitate noise back into the system circuitry which affects the other components - both analog & digital.  It’s a cumulative effect.

Many thanks for your reply. I plan to give this a shot.

Very little sounds as good as rock solid clean power.

Synergistic Research PowerCell is outstanding.  You can shop for a PowerCell 10 FET/UEF, or the better PowerCell UEF SE.   An older version for less cash is the Tesla PowerCell 10se MKIII.   A newer one and better than the others is the PowerCell SX.   The power cable connection is a Neutrik bayontte PowerCon, so it is a special termination on the PowerCells.  Scott Walker Audio or usaudiomart are excellent places for good prices too.   good luck.   

@drdetroit if you have not already done so, pay attention to your grounding strategy in order to determine the effect of your power conditioning. Puritan for example make the 156 power conditioner that can also be easily grounded using their City Master plug in device. Not horribly expensive. Hope this helps. 

What are your goals? Nothing you will do here will affect how any of these perform. And power conditioners really do nothing but potentially reduce output or add noise to the chain. Just go get any decent large power strip.

Trying to help, or internet banter? I hope the former. Nothing I do here will affect how any devices perform? I disagree, otherwise, I would not have this equipment and be trying to optimize. I have many decent power strips, but find the Balanced Power Technology products do lower my noise floor.  As I prepare to reconfigure my rack, I was seeking the opinion of other Audio folks. You have chimed in, and I will properly consider your input.

@steakster said:

Basic set-up 101:

- Plug the digital components into the BPT 3.5 balanced power conditioner.   Plug this conditioner into the 15amp circuit. The digital components don’t draw much load. 

.

- Plug the analog components into the XE-12.  Plug it into the 20amp circuit. 

I don’t know if that’s a good idea. Feeding AC power from the BPT 3.5 to feed some equipment and feeding other equipment from the AC mains wall outlet. That is, where the equipment will be connected together with wire interconnects.

You will be mixing two ac power systems with different types of grounding, bonding the neutral to ground. They are actually connected together at the main electrical service panel.

Best practices, when using separate branch circuits to feed audio equipment, when wire interconnects are used to connect the signal from one to another, the Hot conductors of the branch circuits should be fed from the same Leg, Line, in the electrical panel.

Here are the results from a bench test I did recently. I wired a 2KVA isolation power transformer, primary 120V, secondary  60V 0V 60V. Center point of the two 60V windings (the not used neutral conductor) bonded to the case of the transformer and connected to the equipment grounding conductor in the power cord that plugs into the 120V mains wall outlet.

Measurements

Output of BPT.  From the receptacle identified Hot contact to the Hot of the wall outlet I measured 60V nominal.

Output of BPT. From the receptacle identified neutral contact to the Hot of the wall outlet I measured 180V. (If you draw the circuit/windings on a piece of paper a 60V winding is added to the utility power company 120V winding used to feed the wall outlet. 120V + 60V = 180V.

Even if the two BPTs are used to feed all the audio equipment, they should be checked to verify the two outputs of the transformers are in phase with one another.

I would think you'd have a good idea how to proceed based on your equipment. Compare them evaluate. 

@jea48 

I don’t know if that’s a good idea

The concern is valid.  But the results are fine.  My multi-meter agrees.

 My system is configured the exact same way as my suggestion.  Two balanced power conditioners, a non-current limiting conditioner - on 3 separate circuits.  It’s been like that for 7 years.  No problems.  No blown fuses.   Sounds pretty good.   

@steakster said:

 My system is configured the exact same way as my suggestion.  Two balanced power conditioners, a non-current limiting conditioner - on 3 separate circuits.  It’s been like that for 7 years.  No problems.  No blown fuses.   Sounds pretty good.   

No problems.  No blown fuses.   Sounds pretty good.   

Sounds good to you, is all that matters.

For blowing fuses, couldn't happen.

You could have a higher noise floor and not know it though.

I go back to best practices that all 120V dedicated branch circuits should be fed form breakers connected to the same leg, Line, in the electrical panel. All from Line 1 or all from Line 2. Not fed from Line 1 and Line 2.

If your 3 dedicated circuits are fed from one Line then if you use your multi-meter and measure from each outlet Hot contact to each of the other two branch circuit outlets hot contact you will measure zero volts, nominal. If one is fed from the other Line you will measure 240V from the other two to that branch circuit.

As for your two BPTs did you ever check to see if their outputs are in phase with one another? If you measure from the small slot contact on one BPT outlet to the small Hot contact on the other BPT outlet you will measure zero volts, nominal, if the two BPTs are in phase with one another. Same if you measure from the longer slot contact to the other longer slot contact you will measure zero volts nominal. If the two BPTs are out of phase you will measure 120Vac. 

(Note, I did say neutral contact on the BPTs outlet. As you know both contacts on the outlet are fed with Hot ungrounded legs, Lines.)

 08-16-2019 at 09:57am 

Why install all dedicated circuits on the same Line, Leg?

"Less than 300 microamps of ground loop current can cause hum as it flows in an unbalanced audio interconnect cable. However, harmonics of 60Hz that are generated from lighting dimmers or switch-mode power supplies sound like Buzzz mixed with a bit of Hummm and are more easily coupled by even smaller currents. Harmonics can add together when equipment is powered from different phases, so clearly there is an advantage to specifying same-phase electrical service to power the electronics systems in most cases....

Any leakage currents on the safety ground wires of split single phase load circuits fed by different phase legs will add together due to the 240V potential difference....

Power conditioners do not solve any of these common problems: Cross phase coupling (doubles hums & buzzes) .... What actually does solve them: Same phase power.

 .

Correction:

(Note, I did say neutral contact on the BPTs outlet. As you know both contacts on the outlet are fed with Hot ungrounded legs, Lines.)

Should read:

(Note, I did not say neutral contact on the BPTs outlet. As you know both contacts on the outlet are fed with Hot ungrounded legs, Lines.)

.

I have created (4) categories of equipment. Amplifiers, Analog Source, Digital Source-Processor, and Noisy equipment. I will connect the Amps to my large BPT 2.5. The Analog Sources will connect to the BPT-2, The Digital devices will connect to the other BPT-2, and the Noisy devices will connect to the BPT-4 for isolation. I will then connect the BPT units to the Sound Application XE-12 Analog or Digital ports depending on the sources connected to the BPT units. The XE-12 will connect ONLY to my 20A dedicated circuit.