Popular new/used SS stereo power amps under $2500?
Not long ago I began putting together a hifi system (on paper), and with the help of members here, learned I was going about it the wrong way, so I took a step back, and started over. Meant to keep this short. Didn't happen.
Just to say it upfront, I did do searches on the forum and on Google for new/used stereo power amps under $2500 and only found related threads like preamp and integrates. There were also hundreds of hits, but none visible in the first pages.
About what I'm looking for, and why: First, the amp is to power a set of Harbeth P3esr. Sensitivity is low, 83, and they run at 6 ohms. Many have suggested a power amp of 100w/ch for the speaker, from those more familiar with them. I don't know how needed that power is, but it's relatively common for SS to be at or higher than that, so I see no harm it setting the min at 100w/ch. Some seem to suggest that higher out put amps have some advantages with power reserve for bass or "hungry" speakers. Their words, not mine!
That said, any amp capable of meeting those specs or able to run the P3 is a suitable candidate. The designer even has said on his own forums "any quality amp is just fine". But let's face it, it's not that easy! Initially, I was scoping out Pass Labs, but those are lofty, worth it, but lofty. Also, over the top for me. I decided to transfer some funds into the speakers instead that work very well for my room. With so many amps out there that can potentially power those speakers, I think it's important to include specifically companies with outstanding product and customer support, so I can at least feel confident that if my used $2.5k amp (or less) can be serviced. Hence the reason for a popular amp, vs a limited run or a special. (parts!)
I am not an experienced audiophile and likely many amps would work well for me, but would love some insight. Everyone can appreciate a quality build with solid connectors and avoid problems if possible.
I listen to everything: Electronica, guitar, country 80s/90s, pop, rock. So I guess that would mean a fast/agile amp for long hours. Warmth is good, too! But I know fast and warm are typically mutualy exclusive, I guess emphasis on speed based on the time spent on some of those genres.
I don't need or want an amp that can "stomp".
Amp needs: 6ohm. 100w/ch+. Able to power low sensitivity (83). Can work well at lower volumes with these speakers.
Sonic character: agile, fast,..... If possible, warm and musical? Limited fatigue, emphasis on limited fatigue. Class A is a plus.
Use: lower volumes, sometimes moderate, in my small apartment room after work.
Listening time: 3-8 hours/day
Avoids: limited productions, any amp that needs to be turned up to perform, poor or limited product/customer support, any amp with a short production life, "rare", known risky amps, etc.
Set up will be:
Rack mounted (active cooling)
Cambridge azure 851n (it's a start) Harbeth P3ESR Good cables (?) Power amp.... TBD Maybe a CD player
Room: 12*12 Apartment
Some amps out there might be, but hoping to see more, are: Bryston Classe ca 2200 Parasound a21/23
agile/fast and warm/musical are extremely hard to do. Especially when you msit "fast" with "warm". Warm sounding amps will actually be a little slower.
That being said, I think the Rotel RB-1590 is about your best bet for everything you listed. There is one on audiogon for $2000 even. Make him an offer?
Bryston is fast, but on the thin/bright side sometimes. It could be a good match to a very warm/slow preamp (which is NOT your Cambridge).
Other amps on audiogon that would be good candidates:
Parasound amps are both warm and fast.My brother has one that replaced a Krell that was fast but sterile/cool.After finding the best cables to compliment your system it may be exactly what you're looking for.
@jtcf that's very helpful to know. I read they were warm but hadn't read to much more into them. Can't find anything bad about parasound other than the a21/23 are not the most detailed, but, it's not a $5k amp either. So that's OK. Which parasound does your brother have?
The Belles Aria stereo power amp meets your budget (new) and would be an excellent performer. Search Belles on this site and see what people say about the brand.
@twoleftears briefly checked them out, seems like not many dealers in the USA, and no balanced inputs? I'm not sure how needed balanced inputs are but they seem desired. Although, the few things I read, ppl love them, just didn't pick up on anyone reflecting on using or comparing with different equipment as a reference. I will research further. Thanks!
I build audio components and I can send you a Class A power amp for you to try out if you would like depending on your location. It is pure Class A that is point to point wired current housed in an old Hafler chassis. Or I build hybrid power amps, all point to point wiring, Nichicon capacitors, Amtrans, Caddock resistors, V-Capacitors for $2500.
PM me if you want to hear something. Happy Listening.
If you can find a pair of Nuforce Ref 9 V3 SE mono amps, they are going use for about $1300-1600 a pair. They have all the power you might need and sound very detailed with no etch, very good dynamics, bass, and have 175 watts per channel. If you were to get TDSS upgrades on them, they can compete with most any amp in sound out there. I got a pair used a couple years ago to replace my Edge M6 amp, and was very impressed with the sound--and thus, I had Bob Smith at TDSS do his level 3 upgrades on them about 1 year ago. I’ve used these amps with 5 different sets of speakers and the sound was awesome with each. They also take up very little space on your rack. If you find V2 of the Ref 9’s, they will be nearly as good sounding. If you then do the upgrade to them, no difference from the V3’s after they’re also upgraded. They become much more reliable after the upgrades as the power supplies are much more beefed up among other things. No circuits are changed so the sound will be the same as the house Nuforce sound--already very good, except all the parameters of sound will be much improved. Other than the cost--fairly reasonable, there are zero drawbacks to TDSS’s work.
I think the Hegel is a good idea. Have you thought about Emotiva? They’re SS, and can be found quite inexpensively on the used market. They also have a lot of output. You can’t really go wrong either with Parasound IMO.
+1 on Hegel, even as small as H90. Avoid the older H80. You will probably be surprised and really pleased. Then at some point you will think the grass is greener, and you should try some separates. Fast forward to realizing most combinations sound worse than the Hegel and require an additional $1,500 of interconnects. (advice: hang on to the Hegel, as a sanity check to the separates)
Hegel is very good if you can get it within your budget. So is Rotel 1590 and so is Parasound. Just one thing, contrary to what someone stated IMO you DO NEED 100 + watts. All these modern amps have very very low distortion as long as they don't clip ! So power it's a key feature here. My 2c.
It seems Hegel has come up often, here, and on the Harbeth User Group, and Google searches. I already have a preamp, listed above, so that leaves me with the Hegel H20 power amp, used. I suppose with such strong support for this amp from this thread to the Harbeth threads, I can save up a bit longer to get the right amp. Buy once cry once. The amp seems kinda smallish, light, and plain, but the with so many supporting it for Harbeth, I guess that doesn’t matter.
Am I wrong for keeping my preamp? Should I sell it and buy an integrated? I don’t mind having a seperate amp, unless it’s counter productive to sound quality (in this scenario). In that case, I can sell my pre amp, buy the integrate. But my pre amp has a built in streamer, tidal, spotify, hence the reason I got it, so I’d then need to buy a streamer.
Like devilboy, I was going to suggest a PS Audio S300 stereo amp. You can't go wrong with Parasound either. I've owned and enjoyed older Parasound amps (HCA series) but I currently own PS Audio M700s and enjoy them with all genres of music at low volumes as well as rare occasions when I get to listen at higher volumes. (I assume an S300 would sound similar to a pair of M700s.) You can get an S300 for $1500 new... I don't really see them on the used market much. I agree that it might be overkill, but if you wanted an M700 pair, it's slightly over your budget at $3000, or I see them on the used market occasionally, which would be your opportunity to possibly grab a pair within your budget.
IMHO the 851n is a great building block to a audio system. I bought one a few years ago to add streaming to a second vintage system (pioneer sx-1280 and B&W 805D2). Then when I decided to upgrade to a current tube amp I ended up with a intergraded amp. The 851n still fit in very nicely. My point is you have options.
I own both the standard and the 40th anniversary edition P3esr’s. In a small room like yours any 50 watt amp tube or solid state is sufficient to drive them! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsqXpQuGlw8
Well, mplstereo, I’m a rather new kid on the block too when it comes to modern Hi end Stereo gear. But I can vouch for the Parasound Halo A21 or A23. Like you, I searched every review I could find, scoured these and other discussion boards to read individual experiences and opinions and in the end I bought an A21 with their P5 Pre-Amp and have loved it. It’s way more power then you’ll need so I’d step down to the A23 and I bet you’d be quite happy. I have a set of Goldenear Triton 5’s along with 2 JL Audio Subs (I like a lot of bass) and I’m not sure about the Parasounds not being very detailed, because I close my eyes and can hear every light Cymbal Tap, Snare Brush, Horns.. geez I just hear it all and to my ears it sounds nice. However I’m certain there are others that may indeed Sound better. I also like the design inside with circuitry designed by John Curl and it’s basically 2 Mono Amps in one box. I’ve Heard some newer Marantz, Integra, and Yamaha too and they weren’t bad but most of them were AV Receivers so that doesn’t matter here for your needs lol. Best of luck to you!
I recommend the A21. It fits your budget, plenty of power, built very well and the company(Parasound) has a very good reputation. I bought mine new when the A21+ came out for $2200. You should be able to find a used one in the $1500 to $2000 range.
There's a pair of Monarchy SE 100 deluxe mk II mono amps on the GON here. I know its way below your price range but worth investigating. Good Luck with your search, TISH
You have been given a lot of good choices on the amps, but I am more concerned about your room. With a 12x12 room, assuming also a normal 8 foot ceiling height, you are going to have some strong doubling of modes at 47hz, 85 hz, and 95 hz. Some money invested in bass traps and careful setup are going to make an enormous difference in the sound in your room.
Personally, I would consider something like a Schiit Vidar or Parasound A23+ and put the extra money towards the room treatments.
I own a parasound p5 with a A21+ amp. Driving Magnapan 1.7i speakers. Until I bought the A21+ I used a 40+ year old Mc250 to drive the Maggie's and it did a pretty respectable job with a speaker that normally needs ALOT of power. If you have very efficient speakers and don't mind a tank like amp and want to get the most for your money think about a Mc250 or a Mc2100. BOTH FINE AMPS WITH A SOLID REP. Imho
@mcreyn I actually just picked up a set of Monarchy mono's. Seems enough people like them for the reasons I think I'll like them and I paid half my budget. I think most amps recommended here would be great minus anything bright/thin.
But your right. My small room has 3 walls. Front, Left, Rear. The right, there is no wall, it simply extends to another room. The Harbeths (p3) will be against the front, facing the rear. These Harbeths are ok being very near a wall, one of the reasons I chose them (no port). The left wall has a standard double hung window. Ceilings 9ft. Nothing on the walls but paint.
@racamuti Not sure how these got by me, but seems a lot of people love these amps just as much as the Parasound. (maybe?). Pretty much looked everywhere I could to find bad news on them, or at least anything to even mildly dismiss them as a "wanna be" hi-fi mono. But, I couldn’t. Even Pass owners were impressed with these. Initially, I was considering Pass, but $$$. Looked up the website, called them.
I think it was the owner that picked up, sounded like a thick Japanese accent. Had to do my homework and make sure the unit was still in service and parts were available. I asked him if after my potential purchase if he would take the amps in for an inspection. He told me don’t bother, they don’t have issues. Well, I’m still skeptical, honestly, the price is very good for a mono, and yet, some how the reviews are great.
@yogiboy Awesome! Thanks for chiming in. I watched your review there, informative and helpful, fills in the gaps for me between the regular and the 40th. I went with some affordable and warm sounding mono amps, they were half my budget, and have the class A I wanted for the Harbeth's. 100w/ch, I won't need it, but it doesn't hurt.
Thanks for sharing your review! Yes, your description of who those speakers are for, is actually in MY description for what I'm looking for in a HiFi system! (that is, come home, relax, and listen to tunes for hours) I see your a valve guy (in the vid), have any thoughts on my monarchy audio SE 100 MK2 selection for the P3? (even though it's SS) Feel like I'm rollin the dice a bit, not familiar with these amps at all, but a lot of people like them for reasons I want in a amp, warm, not sluggish, transparent...
I couldn't find if you had compared the S400 to the P3, is it posted? I know im not the only one waiting for that one!
Hearing your room is open on one side makes me feel better. Having a room with all four walls with identical dimensions is a recipe for bad standing wave issues.
I would start, if possible by treating the first reflection point on the left wall. This will balance out the sound from the right speaker that has no wall reflection. I suggest reading the information on GIK Acoustics. If you send them photos or a drawing of your room, they will suggest the best place to start for treatments (theirs are very reasonably priced and great quality). I know with a bank of windows I have, they suggested heavy drapes, or if not an option, blinds to break up the reflected sound.
@tswisla those are where I started! Simply to expensive. I settled on some monarchy monos. Nearly 1/4 the cost of a used 30.8. The 30.5 is cheaper tho. Pass will come into the apartment someday.
If you want to save your money for records, you might consider the NAD C268 class D power amp ($900). I'm not sure when class D technology went from edgy to smooth as silk but my NAD seems to provide much more power than the specs indicate with a deep, full bodied crystal clear sound. Its lighter weight is a pleasure to handle as well. Just a thought....
In class A/B, I've good had good results with a McCormack DNA amp, and Odyssey amps...ok, technically I've used a Symphonic Line amp, but Odyssey comes from the same designer, and are easier to find in the states.
In class D, I like the new PS Audio Stellar Gain amps already mentioned in this thread - S300 stereo, or M700 monos.
Creek Destiny integrated, the British version, not the one manufactured in China which apparently have some reliability issues. Reviewed January 2007 in Stereophile.
Plinius SA-250/SA-100 are great amps and you can enjoy them for a while, then have the upgraded to current specs by the former USA importer, and get a giant killer sound out of them. Stock they sound awesome with great midrange and fantastic bass.
arcam delta 120(100-300w bridged); warm fast and musical makes nad , cambridge and rotel sound ,thin bright or too polite .it has a sense of realism and bass extension that is scary .it's from the early 90's uk made about 300-500$ used in mint condition(3 buttons nothing to mess with you don't need costumer service).i've been using it 6 years now,i will never replace it .i used it with 84db b&w 686 it was amazing ,made them sound so big. now i'm using it with b&w dm580(91db) and ifi itube as a preamp set on 0 db gain since it's too loud set on 6db in a medium room .with the money you save you can get either the ifi itube 2 tube buffer/preamp or the schiit loki eq (or both)any of them will make this gamble much safer so you can fine tune the tone and have better control without losing anything.wait !you have a 1000 left so maybe you can also get nice headphones (the nighthawks are 250 now!) ,nice headphone amp.... in my opinion it's much better than paying 2500 for a secondhand power amp it's too much unless it's pass labs that's a major leap .
Be wary of anyone who says: “don’t worry, this amp doesn’t need an inspection.” If he won’t let you get one, ask if you can have a 7 day grace period (and get your inspection during that period). If he won’t do either, walk away! Good luck.
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