No, it is not. They have easily identifiable differences.
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Well, if you insist on going down this rabbit hole, Google and research Super OEM turntables. Loads of videos on YouTube. Most of these turntables are produced & rebadged out of the Hanpin factory in China or owe some of their heritage to the Hanpin designs. Most have the same look, but have some differences, i.e.: built in phono preamp. They are sold by Stanton, Audio Technica, Numark, Reloop, etc. They are DJ turntables, but they can be used in regular home set-ups. Does it matter at the end of the day? Only you can answer that. If you own the Pioneer and like it, than does it matter that it was made in China by an OEM? I used a Stanton ST 150 for a few years, when I got back into playing records and it was just fine. I prefer direct drive turntables and I liked the ability to swap out cartridges. About a year back, I upgraded to the new Technics GR 1200 and it is pretty easy to see (and hear) how the OEMs may look like Technics 1200s, but they do not necessarily perform like them. Then again the Stanton cost $550 versus the new Technics at $1600. Rich |
None of the professional DJs never use those turntables, exept for the Pioneer and Pioneer team (who got paid for it). Stanton and Audio-Technica made for the amateurs as the cheap alternative to the classic Technics SL1200mkII which is still available on the used marked for $500 (and can be purchased fully refurbished for a bit higher price). Each clubs equipped with Technics turntables for ages. So please do not fool yourself that Stanton or Audio-Technics or any cheap clone of the legend are the DJ turntables. It’s a turntable for "wanna be a dj", but not for the professionals and there is a reason for it. For $1600 there is NO better alternative than brand new (or used) Technics SL1200GR now if you want all in one (Direct Drive with tonearm etc). Do not waste your money on cheap toys. Technics is killing it!!! |
None of the professional DJs never use those turntablesSo according to Chakster, all the professional DJs have used the tables mentioned in the OP. The Pioneer PLX is hardly a cheap toy and if Chakster had handled one, he’d know that they’re actually built better than the original 1200s. Nothing but a used SL1200 comes anywhere close for $699. |
One thing I haven't seen, although I really haven't been looking for it, is a comparison of the PLX1000 and the GR1200. I am also curious where the Onkyo CP-1050 fits into the picture. I am curious since Onkyo and Pioneer are now the same company. Is it possible the Onkyo has all the stuff in it from the PLX1000 that appeals to domestic audio consumers without the DJ stuff? If so, it would represent a real bargain for those who don't need DJ features. But it seems the Onkyo may lack the plinth upgrades in the pioneer, and the 'arm may not be as good, either. I only know what I have read about these 'tables. I haven't heard any of them. |
I have a PLX1000 in my collection of TT's. It is indeed a fine machine and unbeatable at its list price. So what if it has a pitch slider! I don't use it! SQ is at least as good as my vintage SL1200. How about all those cell phones made in China! I'm using one right now! The Chinese can make anything to the specs desired! |
I bought the PLX1000 after reading Herb Reichert's review in Stereophile. He liked it and thought it represented good value for the price. I concur! I wanted a new, factory-fresh TT to try out because (except for my first Ariston RD11S) every TT was bought used. I have no problem with used. The price was right (as Bill Cullen would say) and it came with a quality tone arm. I'm happy with it (even though it has the pitch shifter). |
I never thought of ranking my TT collection! I suppose I'd put the Dual 1209 at the bottom - though it is still a very good TT! And the Dual 1229 above it. The best might be either the Revox 790 or the Sony DD Biotracer (the only TT I'd trust with a Decca cartridge!). But what about the linear-tracks: Beogram, Marantz SL7, Rabco, Mitsubishi? |
Or the four Empires? The two Rek-O-Kuts (one belt, one idler)? The Kenwood idler (rare!)? The Bogen B61 idler? The two Thorens (125 and 160)? The highly-modded AR? The Fairchild belt drive? The Sony servo belt drive? The Kenwood KD500? The VPI HW19? The Yamaha belt drive? The Technics 1200? The Denon DD auto? The two Aristons? The Linn Sondek? |
I started with the Ariston RD11S and SME arm in 1977 ($270 and $150). Added a second Ariston (earlier production pre-Linn) a year or two ago. Ariston made Sondeks for their first two years before Ivor Tiefenbrun moved out and opened his own factory! He just copied the Ariston design with minor changes. So much for originality! And at about the same time I bought my LP12 from a British seller (had my first Sondek about 10 - 15 years ago!). |
Wow; all sorts of opinions here! My original question was whether the Pioneer PLX 1000 is a rebadged Reloop 7000, and I guess it isn't. Why not try to answer the implied question of bondmanp,[above] as to whether the Onyko 1050 has any kinship wiith the PLX 1000, as Onyko and Pioneer are now the same company. |
What does Trump have to do with this? Is he responsible for Pioneer defrauding Technics? That would be news to me... If anyone’s interested in the SL-1200, just buy the SL-1200. Not only is it still in current production, but there are hundreds of thousands of them available for sale on the used market at any given day. Purchasing the PLX-1000 either shows complete ignorance (Raul’s favorite word) on even the most basic level, or intentional support for piracy. Neither is a good thing. |
I also own Pioneer PLX-1000. Is it better than my SP10mk3 or Exclusive P3. No. But, in its own right, its a bloody good sounding turntable for folks who do not want cheap Rega’s, VPI’s, Project and alike. It will wipe the floor with these tables. Its also available new for less than a used SL1200 and arguably provides a better balanced sound. |
Well, I've gotten plenty of responses as to the quality or deficiencies of the PLX 1000, and even some political comments,but almost none about it's ancestry, my original question! One response suggested a relationship to the Onyko 1050, as Pioneer now owns both companies. Anyone have any knowledge in this regard? The OP |
Hi Boofer - Pioneer has never said word one about the PLX 1000's ancestry. As opposed to Denon, for example, who said that its DJ V12 was designed new from the ground up. As I mentioned earlier (2nd post), most of these turntables come out of the Hanpin factory. http://www.hanpin.com.tw/4_Products_02.html If you visit Hanpin's site, you will notice that the Stanton ST 150 and the Reloop 7000 and the Audio Technica 1240 and the Numark turntables not only bear a resemblance to each other, but also bear a resemblance to Hanpin's product line. Depending on how much you wish to research Super OEMs by digging through the web, You Tube, and various discussion boards, it certainly sounds that if many of these turntables are not rebadged copies of Hanpin designs, then the companies are contracting the specs out to Hanpin to make a turntable by taking a part from X and a part from Y and a part from Z ... well, you get the idea. It is almost like the Family Guy episode when Quagmire sees all these kids from different cultures that all bear a resemblance to him and say giggity. As to the definitive answer to your question ... who knows? Pioneer sure as heck isn't saying. For years, I was flamed on this site for owning a Stanton 150 and claiming it was a decent alternative to the Pro-ject and Rega starter turntables ... all from people who never owned or auditioned a Stanton. There is plenty of information on the web. Time to do some research and come to your own conclusions. No one responding will have the definitive answer for you. Rich |
What does Trump have to do with this? Is he responsible for Pioneer defrauding Technics?How are they "defrauding" Technics? Technics wasn’t producing turntables when the PLX came to market. It was only after the recent surge in vinyl sales that Technics got back in the game. They had sold off most of their original tooling as well -- something they wouldn’t have done if they were so concerned with intellectual piracy. Pioneer improved upon the original 1200 design with a damped tonearm, detachable cables and higher torque motor. They were targeting the DJ market while the 1200 was originally marketed toward audiophiles. Regardless, if Pioneer was defrauding Technics there certainly would’ve been a legal confrontation. That’s how commerce goes in the modern world. The Chinese can get away with making exact clones of something and selling it on their home turff, but once a product is imported, the infringing company can easily be sued in U.S. courts. Technics certainly would’ve done just that, had any valid patents been violated. Remember also that Pioneer had been selling direct drive turntables with S-shape arms well before the arrival of the SL-1200, as were Kenwood and Yamaha. Did Technics ever have exclusive rights to those technologies? I highly doubt it. By your logic, one could argue that they pirated those designs from elsewhere, and therefore, they too are defrauders. As for the cosmetics, they’re not quite the same either -- differences in magnitude similar to those of dozens of DD tables sold in 70s. The Pioneer is only sold in black. It has an anodized arm tube, different switchgear, different strobe color and even different tonearm geometry. |
@helomech: I don't know of any evidence that Technics sold off the original tooling for the Technics 1200. According to Technics, one of the reasons they discontinued its manufacture was that the tooling was worn out. Since they made millions of the thing, I find this easy to believe! My understanding is that Technics was the first to introduce a direct drive turntable. The Technics SL 1100, out in 1971 had an "S" tonearm and was direct drive. The 1200 came out in 1972. The first commercial direct drive turntable was the Technics SP 10 but this was intended for radio stations, generally. |
^I've read conflicting accounts. One article claimed it was sold off, another claimed it was worn out. Even so, they gave up the turntable game well before the Pioneer came to market. Any patents they had were long expired. You'd think they would've gone after the Audio Techinca had they felt defrauded as the LP120 bears a much closer resemblance to a 1200 than does the PLX. If a company feels it's been defrauded in any way, it will certainly take legal action against the offender. Like it or not, that's just standard business practice anymore. If you've ever lived in the Northeast US for any length of time you've probably witnessed or heard about some extremely frivolous B vs B suits. Company's will sue their competitors for anything that can possibly net a positive outcome in a reasonable court, let alone egregious patent infringement or intellectual theft. The same was true back in the 70s. |