Phono stage hum - Rega Aria

A good place to start would be to temporarily use a cheater plug to determine if you have a ground loop.

With the tonearm NOT plugged into the phono stage, there's a hum.

And when the tone arm IS plugged into the phono stage...... ?

Tonearm plugged into the phone stage = hum. Tonearm disconnected from phono stage = hum. Cheater plug added to power cord for phono stage = hum. Cheater plug added to power cord for preamp = hum. Connected the tonearm ground wire to the ground of the phone stage. (Phono stage manual recommends that) = hum.  Grounded phono stage to ground of a few other pieces = hum. 
RCA out from the preamp feeds a powered sub. Disconnected that cable from the input on the back of the sub just now, for giggles. Accidentally touched that rca tip to a screw/ground on the back of the sub (other end is still connected to the preamp rca out) and the hum essentially stopped. LOL

With everything connected, try moving the phono cable around, ideally away from other interconnects and power cords.

Hi Gordon, I’ve tried multiple phono to preamp cables moving them around, and lifting the phono stage in the air, away from everything...= hum. 

Everything was powered by the Furman...so I just ran a 50’ extension cord from the preamp to an outlet in the kitchen. Hum still there.

The fact that the hum went away when grounding the tip of an RCA, while the other end is plugged into an output on the preamp is strange. 

@millercarbon I know from reading your posts for quite a while now that you’ll have some theory about this gremlin. ;) It’s quite vexing. 

You've got magnetic coupling into the phonostage.  Will get worse when you add TT.  Check proximity to a power transformer in another piece of equipment.  You will need to space things out... 

Also possible you have no Earth ground anywhere in the system... 

Is this problem new, or did the system work properly previously? Do you know for sure that the phono cartridge is good? Have you tried another phono cartridge in the system?

@hagtech I held the phono stage in the air, about 4 feet away from everything, didn’t help. Could be that I have no true ground, as you suggest. Interesting that the hum goes away when I touch the RCA tip from the preamp audio to a ground. 

@cleeds The hum exists even with the cartridge not connected to the system, and issue has been there for a long time.

malmc02

The hum exists even with the cartridge not connected to the system ...

That really doesn't matter. Have you tried a cartridge other than the Ortofon Cadenza Black? You need to rule out the cartridge as a source of the hum, and merely testing the phono preamp with no load attached doesn't satisfy that.

... and issue has been there for a long time.

But: Was this issue always there? Did you previously get satisfactory results? That is the million dollar question.

@cleeds prior to the Cadenza, I was using an Ortofon 2m bronze, and had hum at loud volumes. I cannot ever recall a time in the past when I have turned the volume to a high level and not heard the hum. Having said that, I don’t often go to high volumes, so it wasn’t at the top of my list of priorities until being isolated at home in these crazy times, and I find myself with more time on my hands. ;). 

Yeah, you need to get an Earth ground somewhere in the system.  Touching RCA is a dead giveaway...

@hagtech tested my outlet with a multimeter, seems to be properly grounded. Don’t know if it’s an earth ground, but juice flows freely into it. The screw on the outlet plate is likewise grounded. Connected the grounding post from the preamp to the screw = hum. Moved the ground wire from the screw to the grounding post of the phono stage = hum. Ugh.
Yeah, it sure sounds like a grounding issue but not sure what to try next to get those rogue electrons out of the system. 

Something isn't getting a ground.  Use your fingers again.  If touching RCA shields lowers the hum, then you're on the right track.  Is there a power transformer near the tonearm?  What happens if you change MC loading to 47k, does it change to just hiss?  If so, then you have magnetic induction into the phono cable itself.  Offending source must be moved.

Use fingers to touch all "grounded" spots, including chassis metal, tonearm, ground lugs, etc.  Find out where you can make a difference.

Is your WIFI router or booster close to your components?  If so, unplug it and see if the hum goes away.  I had an issue with a WIFI extender that was too close to my vacuum tube preamp.  I've also had problems with WIFI boosters that use the electrical lines behind walls to extend the WIFI signal.  After I moved my extender away from my preamp, the hum went away.  Try it, it's an easy thing to do.

The phono amp does not like your preamp for some reason. See if you can borrow another make or model to try. It could also be a defective phono amp but it is most definitely the phono amp. 

@smatsui with volume at max, I did hear some interference with a nearby repeater. Moved, and that went away. However, I still have the hum. 

Maybe I missed something here, try running a ground wire from the photo stage to a ground on the preamp. Or a screw on the chassis of the pre amp

Ran ground wire between grounding posts of the pre amp and the phono stage. No change. Only thing that removes the hum is to disconnect the audio cables between the phono stage and preamp, turn off the phono stage, or ground the tip of the other end of an RCA cable that is plugged into the pre amp’s audio out. 

Update:  after listening carefully, there are two different layers of noise. White noise hiss, and a 60hz hum. When I touch the RCA from the preamp out R to a ground, the hiss vanishes from the R speaker, but the hum remains. 
Bought a new phono stage. Same exact behavior, but the hiss and hum are not as loud. I only get hiss and hum when I turn the preamp way up. Maybe this is normal, but the hiss disappearing when grounding that RCA tells me there may be a way to make it better. The hum is also annoying. 
So, this happens with 2 diff makes/models of phono stages, using power from the power conditioner and from a separate socket doesn’t change anything. Also tried a cheater plug 50’ away, on a diff circuit. No help. 

@hagtech I read your document, thanks. You’re saying hiss is “normal” and is “what we are trying to achieve.” The hiss I hear disappears when I touch the aforementioned RCA to a ground, which tells me maybe it can be eliminated(or at least mitigated) somehow. For the hum, I have already gone through all your recommended steps. So long as the phono stage is connected to the preamp, it generates hum regardless of my whether the tonearm cables are connected to it. Regardless of which of several outlets and power cables I use, or whether I isolate the phono stage by holding it in the air away from everything. Wave it around, and the hum is unchanged. Multiple phono stages, and different phono stages have different level of hum. Your PDF also suggests my problem may be too many grounds, hmm, not quite sure what to try next. 

Don’t know if you solved the hum problem, hopefully you have and can point me in the right direction.

 I just bought the Aria to match my Rega Planar 8 w/ Apheta 3 cartridge and get the hum issue too. So guess that eliminates your cartridge. My older preamp has MM/MC built in and when I use it with the turntable no hum, dead silence. I wanted the Aria for improved Sonics, brand matched so less problems (haha) and better loading for my cartridge.

I too have tried everything I can think of to no avail. Rega only points you back to the Rega reseller so I’ve reached out to them.

 If I come across a solution I’ll post it here, unless you’ve solved your issue.

Hi revreed, sorry to hear you’re having a similar issue. Do you get the hum at lower volumes or only when you go way up? I was not able to solve my problem...however I did experiment by switching to a different mm/mc phono stage, and the hum was significantly reduced. Could be the Aria has a flaw? 

Hi I have an Aria Mk2 with exactly the same problem. After months of experimenting, swapping out different cartridges, cables, turntables and loaning various mains conditioners etc.nothing has worked for me. I thought I could live with it but hold on, why should I have to?

I’ve come to the conclusion there is an internal design or component mistake by Rega which is generating the noise. Yes I understand no stage is dead silent but too many people seem to have the same problem. So my question is does anyone have the same MC hum problem with the new Mk3 version? I understand its had an electronics tweak as well as a facelift.

Ultimately I’m going back to the dealer with my MK2 and will do a side by side comparison. If the MK3 shows no improvement with the MC hum noise, then I’m sorry Rega, as much as I love the sound of the Aria, this is a major design flaw and I’ll be buying a better one without the same problem.

Without listening to it yet I really hope the Mk3 steps up to the plate. If they have fixed the problem, then I shall remain a Rega owner.

Hi, I had similar problems when I switched from MM to MC, which is a bit like an antenna for stray noise. In my case, there is a nearby broadcast antenna that was generating RFI. The MMs weren't as susceptible to it. After trying most of the things you did, I started bringing home different phono stages. The one which rejected the noise, sounded amazing and met my budget was the Parasound Halo JC3 Junior. Dead black. Can even turn the volume way up with nothing playing an no hummers', hiss or anything else (not a useful test for listening to music, but proves how silent the Halo is).

As your own description suggests, it is not the MC cartridge that brings in RFI, it is the high gain phono stage required to amplify the signal from a low output MC that is often the culprit (or the RF can get in via your AC cord or the ICs from cartridge to phono inputs).  You found a well designed one that does the trick.

@lewm , there is no doubt that high gain will magnify noise already present. My understanding, however, is that not all MC use a high permeability steel shell or other shielding to block or reduce rfi, and that therefore the cartridge can indeed be the culprit for the noise. As we (me and people who actually know this stuff, which I don't) ran different scenarios to rule out the etiology, it seemed the culprit was the MC itself. 

As I have an extremely quiet electric system, with an independent breaker for audio, and no noise elsewhere at any volume levels, with speakers or headphones, it is hard for me to accept your diagnosis. That said, if you can explain your thesis more, I'd appreciate it, as I am always ready to discard my previous assumptions.

Try one of these...Quest For Sound carries them.

http://www.graniteaudio.com/zero/page2.html

@dramatictenor I've been considering switching from the Rega Aria to a Parasound - was looking at both the JC3 Junior and the JC3+. Sounds like you are enjoying the Junior, which is good to hear! (literally) 

@conde64 Did you get to try the Aria MK3? Interested to hear what you thought. 

I have a Rega P8 going into an Aria MkII to a Pass Int 60. No hum. Even with volume turned up and just phono source selected,  no record playing, its just soft white noise, no buzz or hum. The phono cables from the Aria to Int60 are 3 conductor, grounded at the source end (Aria),  but left ungrounded at the amp end (Int60). Maybe you have a cable issue? 

@the_lanman hi, what are the cables are you using between the Aria and the Int60? 

I'm using DH Labs BL1 DIY that I assembled myself. It's a two conductor with a ground. On the phono source end, the pos is connected to the pos RCA pin, the neg and jacket ground are connected to the ground pin. On the preamp end, just the pos and neg are use. The jacket ground is left unterminated. This is designed to drain ground away from the source. You can google for more info. It works for me!

Interesting, may try that! I have tried several diff cables already, but not with the grounding scheme you outlined. Thanks. 

Apologies to all for the lack of response since posting. I had some unexpected travel and was ill for several days ( no COVID thankfully).

@malcom2 I’d say it’s at a medium volume on up. I can hear it at below medium but really have to strain to hear it. I will be talking to the dealer in a couple of days to see what his resolution will be, including refund. (Sorry didn’t mean to hijack your thread !)

@conde64 I bought the Aria mkII based on the dealer info that it was “only” a cosmetic change. Interested to see if the MK III does in fact solve the hum issue. Fortunately my Aria is under warranty so we will see what resolution is offered up.

@dramatictenor Good info, I’d be interested in knowing which phono stages you tried so I don’t repeat the trial of same ones that don’t solve the problem.

New P10/Aria Mk3 combo-purchase.  MC Hum.  Going to call dealer Mon and see what they say.  

@malcom2 Update but no real resolution. I tried every variant of grounding between turntable, preamp, amp and the Aria with no result. I even sent the Aria back to get checked out, of course it was fine. 
So I returned the Aria and took the big hit on restocking and shipping. Expensive lesson, but suffice it to say I won’t be buying Rega again!

My search continues maybe a Graham Slee, PS Audio, Parasound or Sutherland.

Another update ...
I’ve been demoing a Graham Slee Accession with PSU 1 and CuSat50 RCA cables. There was some hum but greatly reduced from the the Rega Aria. I’d recommend participating in their loaner program if you are interested.

Hey all, little late to the thread but recently bought a Rega P8 with Apheta 3 and Aria MK3. No hum but same hiss/white noise at 35% volume and above. Changed out for second MK3 same issue. No issue when going to my existing preamp phone stage. Hiss is only on MC setting on MK3 which is of course what I need for Apheta 3. Tried most all suggestions above but still hiss. Rest of system is dead quiet. Guess I am looking for a  different phono stage now, a shame as sound was good but no reason to settle for hiss. System: Classe’ amps and preamp, Thiel CS2 and magniplanar 3.7’s, furman power conditioning. 

I was cursing my Aria for a hum. I tried moving a few things around on the rack and then twisted the cables from the P6 table and the hum went away completely...

OK - this may be the problem ...
- the Aria is not "grounded" via the mains cable
- it’s ground point is "relative" to the neutral side of its circuit - which SHOULD be at ZERO volts
- the images I have seen shows ONLY a 2 pin mains socket.

Even if there are versions with a 3 pin plug - the ground pin may not be connected to the neutral side of the circuit

This can present problems with certain amps - one I know for sure is NAIM - they design their components such that ONLY the source components provide the ground point and not the amp - so you get hum if the source is not properly grounded - as in this case

I had a similar issue with a "consumer grade" CD player and my NAIM amp

Any component that uses an "isolated" power supply design like the Aria may suffer hum issues (in some systems)
- Components that use Walwart power supplies can also create hum

There should be NO HUM at all !!!

The easy solution is - to make up a ground wire...
- connect one end of a piece of wire to the ground pin on a mains plug
- connect the other to the ground terminal on the Aria
- plug the mains plug into a wall outlet or power bar - whichever you use
- for best results use a spade connector on the end connected to the Aria

If that does not cure the hum you may need to ground the neutral side of your system...
- as before - add the mains plug to a piece of wire
- connect the other end to the neutral side of a cheep RCA plug
- connect the RCA to any unused RCA socket on only ONE of your components
- experiment with different components - it can make a difference

WARNING: - DO NOT GROUND AT THE AMP in this manner IF...
- your amp is a fully differential design (i.e. with balanced speaker outputs)
- in this case - ground at a source component ONLY

There could be hum due to a noisy transformer, but that’s a very rare occurrence these days - certainly not in most modern components

Proper grounding is essential in all systems, but for some reason designers seem to think isolated designs provide something superior

The debate between Isolated and grounded designs will rage on ad-nauseum
- the problem comes when trying to mix the two approaches in a single system
- then you may experience hum.

I’m yet to see/hear of an isolated design that works in EVERY system

In my case - even with my current Bryston amp -
- My Simaudio Moon phono stage is whisper quiet at full volume - it is a properly grounded design.
- However, - IF the Phono Stage is disconnected from the system, my Node 2i (with an isolated power circuit) will cause hum
- but grounding my system as above WOULD fix the issue.
- So you may only have to ground ONE of your source components !

ONE LAST THOUGHT - if the hum gets louder as the cartridge approached the motor, you may need to ground the motor - a common fix IF using a Grado cartridge on some Rega Turntables

ALTERNATIVELY...
- You could buy all components from a single brand
- that should work :-)

Hope that helps - Steve

I found this guy talking about this here also:

https://youtu.be/S8mAGs4-GAI

@vic2020 interesting, might explain why I see a hum reductions with my non grounded Rega Aria when I ground the rca output of my preamp. I just bought a Parasound JC3 JR, going to do some testing today! Hoping I come out of this with no hum! 

Replaced the Aria with the Parasound JC3 JR. Hum disappeared 100%. I still get some white noise when I crank the system to max volume. Going to see where that’s coming from, I’m sure it’s not easy, if not impossible for an MC turntable to be dead silent at max volume. Having said that, I’m curious what level of silence others have achieved at max volume levels. 

I had a similar issue with my Aria. I had to move my Aria on the opposite side of my shelf from my TT & Amp (4-5’), made sure my cable runs were also isolated and attached my TT ground cable to my preamp (which has a true ground) vs my Aria. 
Running Hana ML (MC).  Dead silent at 90db.