Highly recommend running the Bricasti M3 balanced. With XA25 it will not be possible. Plus it may be warmer than the Hegel. I had XA30.8. Never heard the 25.
If you want good Class A that won’t darken the presentation try Coda No.8. Or keep the Hegel. Also the Dynaudios love power and sound best when cranked up. Just keep that in mind with lower power XA25.
Pass XA25 for my system
I have been a long-time lurker here, but never posted until now. I have learned a lot from reading other posts and I thought it would be nice to share details on my current system. Also wondering if anyone has thoughts on switching from Hegel to a Pass XA25 amp.
Current system:
- Room: 14x19 living room with medium(ish) damping - couch, rug, bookshelves, plants etc.; however, no dedicated room treatments.
- Sonicorbiter i9 optical Roon server upsampling to DSD128
- Fiber to Sonore Opicalmodule Deluxe 2 (Sonore LPS with Mundorf Silver/Gold DC cable)
- Sablon Ethernet 2020
- Bricasti M3 DAC and Roon endpoint running exclusively via NDSD conversion (3x Isoacoustics Orea)
- Audioquest Fire XLR cables
- Linear Tube Audio Microzotl Level 2 preamp with Lundahl balanced transformer input, Ray Reserve and Gold Lion tubes.
- Iconoclast Series 2 OCC RCA cables
- Hegel H390 Integrated (using as amp with HT bypass)
- Audioquest Robin Hood speaker cables
- Dynaudio Heritage Special (Dynaudio Stand 6 with Isoacoustics Gaia feet)
- Power: AQ Niagara 1200, AQ tornado and Cardas power cables.
My system is relatively modest, but was carefully assembled and it sounds pretty great to me. After adding the Microzotl preamp and seeing the improvement, I am thinking of replacing the Hegel (I am not using the preamp or DAC functionality) and trying a new amp. Thinking of the Pass XA25 after reading great reviews and seeing other people matching it with both my speakers and preamp. To be clear, the Hegel has been great and is a good match for my speakers. Dynamics are great, clarity, detail and a very relaxed feel to the sound. It was maybe just a touch too “clean/thin” before the LTA preamp. That move added a little more body, better imaging and soundstaging so curious to see what the Class A XA25 might do to further improve on these areas. The LTA Microzotl also helped with lower level/volume listening allowing more detail and dynamics to come through. With the Hegel volume control, I had to turn things up quite a bit to get things sounding their best. I also tried the Bricasti as a preamp and that was slightly less preferable than using either the Hegel or LTA for volume control.
I am still slightly nervous moving away from the Class A/B sound I am familiar with. Maybe it will soften things a little too much and be a step backwards? I was also considering a slightly used Class A/B Audionet Amp. I have no doubt they make excellent amps but I also couldn’t find many people using that brand and even fewer using it with my preamp and speakers. Any thoughts on whether the Pass XA25 will soften dynamics and transients significantly relative to my Hegel? I found some info. at 6Moons comparing the XA25 to Kinki Class A/B monoblocks and the comments seemed positive albeit a little mixed and unclear.
Thanks for the input. To clarify, the Bricasti is still running balanced to my LTA preamp with Lundahl transformer conversion in the preamp and then SE output to the Hegel. I agree it is best to keep the Bricasti running balanced. My impression from reading was that the XA25 was not as dark as the XA30.8, but your comment is why I am asking for feedback since that seems to be what some describe as the Pass sound. I have been considering Coda as well. My take away was that the XA25 was possibly similar to the Coda S5.5 in sound signature and overall specs. XA25 is closer to 100 watts into 4 ohms with distortion less conservative than 0.01% |
I read that too about the XA25 being a bit more lively than the XA30.8. X250.5 with B&W N803 and Dynaudio S5.4 XA30.8 with Martin Logan Montis and Wilson Sabrina X260.8 mono blocks with Wilson Sabrina
The sound character of Pass amps is warm, luscious, full and forgiving. The X seried has a bit more bite and dynamics than the XA30.8. |
@sfpeloton - I concur with audphile1. I also own the Dynaudio Heritage specials and LTA preamp. I’ve driven the Dynaudio’s with a Luxman 590axii class A amp that has similar power output to the pass labs XA25. It’s just not enough power to drive the Heritage speakers to their potential. The Coda 8 would probably be a better pairing. |
For your speakers if you want Class A I’d take a hard look at these Clayton Audio monoblocks. At least as good as the XA25 and lots more power, and at this price used if they don’t work you could sell them for little/no loss. Personally I’d take these over the XA25 in a heartbeat, but that’s me. Clayton no longer sells new amps, but apparently the designer still services them. Just another option, and best of luck. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650127705-clayton-audio-m-100-class-a-monoblocks/ |
I agree with the others that the XA25 might not have the depth you need to drive those speakers. I also agree that the Coda #8 would be a good choice. That said, I recently swapped out my #8, for a new to me Audionet Amp 1 v2 and a Pre G2. I was using a Pass XP-12 with the Coda. I am not sure how the Audionet amp would be with the LTA, but it is magical with the G2. I will be selling the Coda shortly if there is interest. |
Hello @sfpeloton , Good Morning! You do have a nice system and have paid a lot of attention to your digital front end! I am a huge fan of Audionet! I have owned the mono Amps, mono Max Amps and now the top dog Heisenbergs. While the Heisenbergs are amazing, the Max amos give you most of the Audionet sound at a more reasonable price. My friend owns the Humboldt integrated, which is also stunning, but I like the Max amps better. I have directly compared to Classe, Parasound Halo, Hegel and Pass and think the Audionet amps and preamps are special. To me, the other AB amps I have heard are dark, dull and uninspiring (and the Hegel is perhaps the best of these). The Audionet gear is lightning fast, with super transients and dynamics, yet so resolving I call it the sparkle. They are NOT over etched or too bright. Listening is engaging and non fatiguing. I run the Heisenbergs with their Stern preamp, and the Maxs with my Mola Mola Makua preamp w onboard Tambaqui. The Mola Mola is a touch warmer, but still a wonderful match. Audionet amplification with your tube pre should be stunning. I know Bill at GTT has been sitting on a demo Audionet stereo Amp V2 that I have been tempted to get for my vacation home. Happy Holidays! Ken |
+1 @zlone , I did not see your post prior to mine. Yes the Audionet Pre G2 is amazing with their amps also. I traded mine in when I got the Stern / Heisenbergs. My first taste of Audionet was their entry level Pre1 G3. It blew away the Classe Pre I was using at the time, and opened my mind and ears to the sound I wanted. Maybe the OP will go for your Audionet Stereo Amp1v2 and you can get the Max mono amps!!! :) |
I have not heard the Hegel to compare, but I do drive the Heritage Specials with a Pass XA25. I also own the same LTA pre (with rolled tubes). I have no issue driving the Dynaudios to listening levels that are satisfying to me, though I am not into listening at high volume levels. I feel that the combination of the Pass and the LTA works extremely well. The LTA is not at all a classic sounding tube preamp, but is very dynamic and natural sounding, but not lush (like an older CJ for instance). The Pass is a little on the warm side and it pairs well with the LTA. In my room, the setup has responded very well to every upgrade I have made, adding resolution, precise imaging, microdynamics, and open soundstage, along the way. Timbre has always been good, but got even better when I upgraded the LTA tubes this year. Tons of choices as others have indicated, but I’ve been very happy with this combination. |
@fastfreight Yes, I am a converted Audionet fan now. I might go with the monos someday, but for now the Amp 1 has been great. Responding primarily to confirm your description of the Audionet sound:
This is so true. I refer to it as 'just right'. I hear GTT's room at Axpona this year and had similar comments. And yes, you can find a good deal on a demo Amp 1 on his site.
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@cbrez - I ended up purchasing a used Gryphon 120 which does 240 watts into 4 ohms. It was at that moment that I realized the full potential of the Dynaudio Heritage Special speakers. They are fantastic speakers and I just feel they really open up when driven with more power. |
@bluethinker Definitely many factors and glad to hear you are enjoying the Gryphon. I did my tube rolling before I even heard about the “Ray’s Tubes” that LTA is using as upgrades. I bought some Telefunken ECC801s and CBS/Hytron VT-231 (6SN7) and they were a huge improvement over the stock LTA tubes. The LTA was terrific before, but next level after. |
Hi. I have a Pass Xa25 and love it. It is very close to my tubes, CJ Classic 62 SE, my Heron mono blocks a d Resolution Audio mono blocks. It has a purity and ease that the others do not. My speakers, Penaudio Cenya Supreme, are 86db and 4 ohm. My old room was 15x33 and I never needed more power. I would say that the Xa 25 is an amp to keep.
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Lot's of thoughtful comments here so thanks to all who chimed in. After reading the comments, I do think the XA25 might be a little too warm for my tastes - even though it may be less warm than some other Pass offerings. My room is not very large - 14x19 with pretty standard ceiling height. I really hadn't been too concerned about the XA25 power since it has high current output and is very conservatively rated 50W at 0.01% distortion. However, I do like to turn up the volume some times and I wouldn't want to miss that. Given the power issues and possible warmth of the XA25, I am leaning towards sticking with Class AB and it sounds like Audionet is one of the best options in that area. I had indeed been eyeing the Amp 1 V2 for sale here. I noticed the input impedance is 37 kohms. I think the LTA is 50 ohms so it should be okay? Any concerns about impedance mismatching or the pairing with the LTA? |
Cbrez, you have a nice system. I remember coming across it at some point and it was one of the reasons I was thinking about the XA25. I have the Ray Reserve tubes and Gold Lion 12AT7s. I thought they were a nice improvement over the stock tubes, I think they helped tighten up the bottom end and eliminated a small amount of treble glare I noticed with the stock tubes - although to be fair, the amp and tubes were also probably still burning in and settling at that point. |
My former 87db 4ohm Totem Acoustic speakers with the original Dynaudio drivers were very similar in how they responded to the right type of power amplification. I had tried several different lower power SS and Tube amps with them. Eventually arrived at 200wpc 8ohm / 320wpc 4ohm with a dual mono dual torroidal transformers - A true 75 amp mosfet Class AB solid state amplifier. The smaller 2-way speakers literally came alive and sounded quite different with a more robust amplifier. Smoother highs, better silky midrange, bottom end was all there. Real iron and current driving them. No subwoofers, not necessary at all. Like you experienced - it really showed what the speakers were capable of being. All the bases were covered at low, medium, high volume level listening. There was never a need to turn them up, they sounded very nice at low-med levels once they were being driven by this amplifier. |
I have the XA25 paired with Harbeth 30.2, 6 ohms 86 db. My room size is 20x12. It is plenty of power and I like to listen to high volume. Class A at high volume is a big plus compared to AB. The XA25 is one of the most transparent amps. It is being used by many reviewers as a reference amp. You have a great set up and the XA25 is definitely worth a listen. It is keeper for me. I am using Cardas Clear rev1 as the interconnect and a Luna Mauve speaker cables. The sound is very organic and natural. Cable matching based on sound preferences is also an important consideration. |
No, you’re fine. You want the input impedance of the amp to be at least 10x the output impedance of the preamp, and you’re well over that. |