I wonder if there will be a sonic difference between
1. changing the MM input stage to 100k (by adding the 150k in parallel) so that the cartridge sees 250 ohms
2. Keep the MM stage at 300k and add a resistor to the primary of the Step up so that the overall impedance seen by the cartridge is 250 ohms |
My ART 9 has hit the 2 year mark, and I STILL have no desire for an upgrade.
Spent a couple of hours at the LA show,Friday. Interesting stuff, but IMO same ol, same ol unless, you're into digital playback and cans. Seems there's always something new in those catagories.
Will drop in for a few more hours today, Saturday.
The REALLY nice table/cart setups played my LP's with amazing sonics, but the cost difference is significant.
The ART9 with a decent table and appropriate system really is a "working mans" cartridge.
I hope AT come out with a VII version in the future, so I will have a reason to buy a another one.
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Pani, Yes, I think there would be a sonic difference between those two alternative strategies. Ralph (Atma-sphere) posted on the subject of loading the primary side of the SUT, recently on the Analog thread, but I cannot recall where. In any case, his reasoning would lead one to expect that loading the primary would not be optimal.
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Wondering if anyone has experience using the ART9 with a Soundstage MCP2 stage? I have a new unplayed Dyna 17D3 and am looking at alternative carts for comparison purposes. Running a VPI Prime (along with Prima Luna DiaLogue pre and power amps -- with various tube "upgrades" from stock) into the MCP2. I'm not wed to the MCP but do like its variable loading feature. |
mine was sounding a little dull compared to other cartridges so I raised the tonearm tail by 2mm from absolute level.
amazing what a difference it made in clarity, detail and dynamics.
the ART9 is very sensitive to VTA so if you are not happy with the sound a minor adjustment may be all you need. |
After careful examination with a usb microscope it turned out that the stylus on my art9 was set at a quite an angle pointing forward, meaning i had to raise the arm to its max plus make some other adjustments to get a 90 degree stylus angle.. The 92 degrees that gets recomended by some was not acheivable however. AT UK are yet to even respond to any emails querying this which is pretty poor, so I would recomend close inspection to any new art 9. There is a considerable difference in sonics at varying angles of the stylus for sure.. |
Ok I guess no one here is using (or used) the Soundsmith MCP2 stage, so can anyone offer suggestions for other stages they’ve found mate well with the ART9? |
I'm not sure there's any particular phono stage that would pair specifically with the ART9. The right one is the best one that you can afford with your budget. The better the phono stage, the more ART9 you'll hear, and the best ones (in my limited experience) will not reveal any hidden flaws. So find the best phono stage you can and be confident that ART9 will be equal to the task. I'd also add that spending money on a good phono stage is NOT a waste - it's a critical step in the chain, so worth the investment. |
My ARC PH 8 seems to be a perfect match for the ART-9. I feel no desire what so ever to make any upgrades.
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Guys, I have arrived into a situation where I am probably going to sell my ART9 ! I had never anticipated this but it probably is the right way forward from where I see it. I bought a very expensive SUT to match my phonostage. While it sounds super, the gain is way too high and I hardly can use the volume control on my preamp. If I sell the SUT I will lose a lot of money so I have to get a lower output cartridge instead :-( |
Wow - so what cart would you be looking at to replace the ART9? I didn't realize it but the ART9 output is a little highish at .5mv |
ART7 at .12mV. I'm all in with two of them. |
Crazy. I was in a similar situation when I bought my ART9 but went the opposite way and sold my SUT. Coming from the AT33PTG/II at .25 mv it was a perfect match for my Parks Audio CM-1254 SUT. The SUT was on the high end however for the ART-9 with a 1:20/1:40 configuration.
Out of curiosity which SUT did you get? I’m glad I stuck with the ART-9. Don’t know if you recall my initial thoughts but I struggled to pick the ART-9 over the AT33PTG/II even after a short break in. I’m beyond happy with it now and can’t imagine going back.
People arent kidding when they say this cartridge needs a long break-in to shine. For me it was between 75-100 hours and it started to really take on a whole new personality.
I can see the issue you’re faced with on the potential loss but I would really struggle making a decision to change cartridges because of my SUT. |
I bought an Audio Note S8 |
Pani - I seem to remember that you were using an EMIA MC step up before. Do you have a feel for how the EMIA and the Audio Note trannies compare? I guess the S8 is a lot higher up the chain in price. |
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@dodgealum very nice write-up. After I sold my ART-9, I am yet to find a reasonable priced cartridge that I could "safely" choose as an "upgrade". |
After reading through this thread I was surprised to see that @pani was so fickle in dumping the Art 9 after being so enthusiastic. I'm using a Lundahl LL1941 SUT on 1:32 setting with my Art 9 - which gives a 46ohm reflected resistance to the cartridge with 47K phono input. This might sound low but it was my preferred setting for the 14ohm dcr Denon 103R as well. IME, SUT loading is different to pure resistive loading on MC stages. Anyway this works for me with my Cary tube phono, which has a low 38dB gain MM stage. I only have about 10-15hrs on my ART 9 - but it has sounded very good from the outset after initial azimuth/vta/vtf fiddling. I like it more than my Soundsmith retipped 103R, which has a lot of great attributes but lacks the finesse and delicacy of higher end MC's - and the Art 9. From memory I also prefer the ART 9 to the Ortofon Cadenza black - which was a very nice cartridge, but never engaged me like the 103R. FWIW, I've previously tried both the AT33 PTG and OC9-II (or III?) and for me they didn't compare well to the Denon and Ortofon cartridges I had at the time and were quickly sold. Long ago I also used the original OC9 and later the ART-1, neither of which I recall as being very robust sounding at all (though I did like them). The ART 9 is giving a different impression - there's more body and substance to it's sound and more dynamic punch. The high compliance of the Art 9 shouldn't be a great match for the Phantom (I think around 12g effective mass - but Graham doesn't actually publish the spec). Using the HFNRR test record the resonant frequency in my Graham Phantom arm is 7-8Hz, but the cartridge is very well behaved and tracking is excellent. I seems that AT have done a very good job of controlling resonant behaviour. |
After reading through this thread I was surprised to see that @pani was so fickle in dumping the Art 9 after being so enthusiastic I was not fickle. I used it for 2 years happily. The longest I have ever used any cartridge without further contemplating a change. At one point I just decided I would like to try something else, probably a Decca Jubilee or so. I got a great offer on my ART9 so I let it go. |
Yes, I understand we can get 'tired' of even the best components. It just seemed odd that you bought the AN SUT and then sold the ART 9 when the two didn't work together.
I'm probably the pot calling the kettle black - I bought a new Ortofon A90 years ago, which I loved, then sold it and went back to listening to the Denon 103R!
Crazy right?
The Denon was just more 'fun' and it did my head in that the A90 wasn't doing that for me - even though it eclipsed the Denon in so many ways.
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I think you make a fair point @tobes. I also felt a disconnect between some of the high flying rhetoric in this thread and the way it ended with a bit of a whimper. That discomfort is why I posted a long and perhaps unwelcome comparison of the ART9 to the Zyx Universe Premium here. If the ART9 was being touted as a true ‘giant killer’ (“sky’s the limit” is one of the phrases I seem to remember from this thread), then I wanted to know what the cartridge would really sound like against a recognized “giant.”
I guess my point is, what’s at stake in judging a cartridge is a basic objective claim: how well does it work as a transducer? I understand that we all judge that with our subjective ears, and that no cartridge is or can be perfect. I like to try different cartridges as much as anyone because I always learn from the process. But still, it seems to me that we’re talking about a level of excellence and not just a “flavor of the month”. and in that regard there are limits to the ART9 no matter how great it is within its particular price point.
I say this as someone who really enjoys the ART9 and who used it as “daily driver” for a good year. I also find myself getting a bit… bored of it. why? My guess is that while its fantastic in the essential mid-range, it also loses focus, punch and realism at the top and bottom of the spectrum. It takes a while to hear that, or at least it did for me. Fantastic cartridge, challenger to carts retailing for twice its price, but not necessarily indicative of the current state of the art.
and apologies but I haven’t read the comparison referenced above. I’ll take a look when my toddler gives me a chance… :)
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All said and done it is the only under $1k mainstream cartridge that sounds hi-rez and fulfils the criteria to be on a high end turntable. If one were to spend $3k and claim that ART-9 is not a solid contender I can understand, but within $2k (which is the VFM range in the MC domain), ART-9 is a top contender. |
While I haven't had that much listening time over the past week due to work commitments, I continue to be very impressed by the ART-9.
This cartridge sounds just wonderfully natural on voices and instruments. The expansive soundstage - on which images remain precise, detailed and simultaneously robust - adds greatly to the listening experience.
I'm pondering just what it is that makes this cartridge special. I think many of it's attributes flow from it's stellar tracking - which I think exceeds even great trackers like the Ortofon Jubilee/Cadenza Black/A90 I've had in the past. The tracking security of the ART-9 gives a great sense of ease to the music and allows the listener to focus anywhere in the soundstage and listen to a particular performer during the busiest passages. It does this while maintaining it's great tonal balance and sense of timing. It's a compelling/involving cartridge to listen to - one of those cartridges that has you pulling records from everywhere in your collection.
I think it's fantastic that this sort of cartridge performance is available at this price point - which, lets be honest, normal people would still think is a pretty expensive. It's a lot better cartridge than my SS retipped 103R - for not a great deal more money. I bet it would show up plenty of boutique priced cartridges - and probably out-track them all.
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Something I forgot to mention is the Art-9's dynamics - I've been startled by the dynamic energy from familiar records and I'm re-discovering old favs again.
When I was using the Ortofon Jubilee with, say, jazz recordings I'd often feel the need to pump the volume up to inject some life into the music - this was also true to an extent with the Cadenza black. The Denon 103R variants were more lively and locked onto the rhythm better, but didn't have the same finesse as the Ortofons.
The ART-9 well ahead of the above in dynamic liveliness and startle factor across the range - yet at the same time it has wonderful composure and finesse. Clarity of images themselves and see-into nature of the soundstage in general is excellent.
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just bought a new technics table and the removable headshell lets me compare carts relatively quickly.
running a new ortofon cadenza blue which will not be unseated by the ART9 but the ART9 does sound great and right there with the cadenza. The 9 sounds better on the technics than it did on my old high mass belt drive table. very sweet, high energy and brighter yet still very clean sounding. it just recesses the midrange more than i prefer compared to the ~ $2000 ortofon but sounds awesome otherwise, it hangs right there and some may even like it better. amazing when you consider it's half the price. |
Holy smokes folks, well you all convinced me to try my fully broken in ART9 MC on my new VPI ROSEWOOD SE table i purchased, even after i told VPI guru that i had the AT ART9 he told me point blank get the ORTOFON CADENZA BRONZE for that table and it will take it to such a level ill never want a upgrade again, im just use to the sound of the ART9 on my VPI scout 2 and i think it is adjusted pretty spot on too, anyway im going to give my ART9 a good 2 weks or more on that rosewood table before i make any real decisions of upgrading carts after reading all these glowing posts, i love this forum !
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Well these comments inspired me to saddle up the ol' ART9 again after making some changes to my ICs and adding a Stillpoints LP Isolator to the TT. The LPI in particular helped open up the top end and it also tightened up the bass a bit and sharpened dynamics. A welcome change all around. But most interestingly, it improved the sound in just the places I was complaining about with the ART9: bass resolution, higher end detail and overall balance. So I hereby amend my above remarks. impressive cartridge, given my relatively limited experience. |
Pani ...
Just a word of thanks for turning us on to the ART-9. I've enjoyed mine immensely ever since installing it. It just takes itself out of the equation and totally disappears leaving only the music. Highly recommended.
Frank
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Frank, credit goes to you as well for setting it up well and matching with a synergistic phono stage to get the best out of this cartridge. It really needs a medium to light tonearm and a low noise full sounding, dynamic phono stage to shine through. Using a heavy or 12" tonearm takes away some of that agility and excitement from this cartridge. |
The thing that jumps out to me most about this cartridge is its ability separate out the various instruments. I wonder how it does that. |
The things that jump out to me are that it makes voices and instruments sound better than they really are- it sweetens them up a bit. Also that this effect works for all types of music styles- rock, jazz, instrumentals, etc. Finally it is just so darn squeaky clean sounding. |
OK, OK.... I have been following this thread for half the day (read from the start). I am sold. I was considering the Delos and the Clear Audio Concept MC Black also the Ortofon Quintet Black MC; but it looks like the ART9 will be it.
I have some questions which perhaps someone here who is far more adept at matching components than I would perhaps lend a hand to.
There is a lot of chat about compliance, tone arm mass, SUT, etc. May I ask on thoughts about this set up I have and if it would be a right mix for the ART9: Turntable is a VPI Ares3 with the Super Platter option, my tone arm is a SME Series IV and I have been using my old vintage AT15ss (same basic cartridge as the AT20ss) which has a not too old NOS stylus, original OEM AT and the Clear Audio Smart V2 phono stage. The cartridge is to me, amazing, but now I feel like I have to get this new AT ART9! I have no idea if the SME Series IV is high low or medium mass arm, but it plays so well with the AT15ss which is about 7.5 gms, I'd assume it would work out fine with the ART9.
Also, does anyone know the Mounting Hole center to Stylus Tip distance on the ART9? My AT15ss is around 8 mm, or .375 inches.
Thanks in Advance for input.... |
Your arm is 10-11 grams according to vinyl engines specs. https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sme/series-iv.shtmlAbout the same as my VPI 3D arm which sounds glorious with the ART9. Technically if if you go by the calculations, you are slightly below the line for resonance but it’s difficult to know for sure because of the 100hz spec that AT provides. If you’re worried I’d use the lowest mass mounting hardware you can find. |
Thanks for the input; I actually found the mass of the arm at 10 to 11 grams too.
It’s too bad the ART9 doesn’t have tapped threaded mounting holes so that short/lighter screws could be used. I suppose aluminum mounting screws would be a good option
I just looked up the specs on the AT15ss and it's 8 grams mass vs. 8.5 grams for the ART9. It sounds from what you are saying, I should be trying to work with a mass which is lower; more towards the 8 grams or less. |
Yes if we look at the typical numbers, a lower mass tonearm would get you in the sweet spot. That said my combination is about the same as yours and it sounds infinitely better than any setup I’ve had yet, including some combinations that fell right in the sweet spot.
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For my set up to hit the sweet spot, what weight cartridge would accomplish this? |
The change in cartridge weight won’t impact it as much as the tonearm mass and cartridge compliance. Honestly this combo puts you right in the low end of the sweet spot to slightly below (7-8hz cartridge resonance). You can run some numbers on vinyl engine. https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=10&submit=SubmitAlong the left you’ll see cartridge compliance. AT rates the ART9 at 18×10-6cm/dyne (100Hz). Assume 18×10-6cm/dyne (10Hz). I’d be shocked if you weren’t pleased with the setup. You get into that orange area and you’d start seeing issues. I had some concerns initially and even considered some nylon or aluminum hardware I found online somewhere which might’ve save .5 grams on cartridge weight. But I never saw any gremlins pop up so I didn’t bother. You’d be hard pressed to find a cartridge in the sub $1000 category that didn’t have multiple shortfalls compared to the ART9. |
I’m rambling now. FWIW you’re better on the low end. The higher resonance value will cause a much bigger issue when it falls in the area of the frequency of the music being played. The lower end resonance value becomes an issue with warped records as the cartridge is playing rumble from the bouncing up and down. With a good center weight most people wouldn’t ever know they have a low end resonance issue. If you have a outer periphery ring weight you’d be even better yet. I just have a center clamp (screw down type) and I don’t have a lot of warped records. No issues here. Here is some lightweight headshell hardware. https://www.amazon.com/FYL-Turntable-Headshell-Mounting-Hardware/dp/B01J5FAGQS#featureBulletsAndDeta... |
Thanks Wrxified for the information... the nylon hardware certainly looks interesting. However I am not sure I'd need it if I am reading the chart correctly. On the left side where it reads 18 for the spec you supplied on the ART9, it lands at 9hz if I come across to 8 to 9 grams which would be the cartridge and some minimal mass from the screws. That is squarely in the green. That is if I am reading this chart correctly. |
Sorry I typed that wrong. I’m on my mobile. Meant the following but I’m going to add some data. Also keep in mind the compliance rating on the left side of the vinyl engine chart is based on a 10Hz compliance measurement.
AT rates the dynamic compliance on ART9 at 18×10-6cm/dyne (100Hz), most people would say that the 10Hz dynamic rating would be about 1.5 - 2x the 100Hz measurement.
This would put the 10Hz dynamic compliance measurement at 27- to 36x10-6cm/dyne (10Hz). That is an extremely high compliance cartridge!!! Why Japanese cart manufacturers rate at 100Hz is mind boggling to most people. The problem is there is no direct calculation from 10Hz to 100Hz.
I’ve read other people who say you can take the static compliance of a cartridge, which for the ART-9 is 35×10-6cm/dyne, and divide by 2. Again no direct correlation and it’s only offered as a guide. But if we take the 2nd method, you end up with a much more medium high compliance cartridge which seems to jive with what others are seeing.
On the Hoffman forum ART-9 thread there are are countless members with tonearms in the 10-12 gram range that have the cartridge running. Some describe the cartridge experience as if the moment they mounted the ART-9, the clouds above them opened and angels started singing down upon their audio system. 😂. Several of them also ran the combo through various test records to measure the resonance, and came back with a combined resonant frequency well within the 8-11hz range.
This would lead me to believe the cartridge is a moderately high compliance cartridge, not the extremely high end one that many systems would struggle with.
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Here is my take on it: The SME Series IV is regarded as one of the best tone arms ever made; so it would make sense to me that it would play well with most cartridges out in the market place or people would not compliment how it performs. I guess that is a back door way in to saying it probably will be within the good parameters.
Speaking of the clouds opening and angels singing down to me; I had that exact same experience when I put together my VPI Ares3/super platter table with the SME IV. I had been using a very highly touted vintage Marantz 6300 with the AT15ss (both of which I bought new when I was in college and I thought this TT was just outstanding. When I picked up the Ares3, it came to me with an arm board drilled out for the Dynavector high end tone arm, so I had to put it into my Bridgeport mill and machine a slot for the template of the SME (I just barely made it on HTA as the geometry of the two arms are different). It took me two days of work and fine tuning on the TT base to get the two to fit up; a big issue is the right angle DIN plug which causes a sharp bend in the cables which I had to make a relief cut for.
The long and short of this is that I ended up transferring the AT15ss (with a NOS OEM stylus and about 100 hours use) from the Marantz 6300 over to the Ares3, so this was a true apples to apples comparison of what a TT and tone arm combination arm will do. YIKES!! I could not believe what I was hearing! There were instruments playing on well listened to records I have that I had not heard before. And the soundstage/imagining was like being in a concert hall. I just couldn’t believe what I was witnessing. As noted earlier, the AT15ss is an 8 gram cartridge in an aluminum body MM, It’s in the suggested range of 5 to 16 gms. from SME. I don’t know the other specs on compliance, but it sure does work! I am guessing since that it is in the same family as the ART9, things should be just fine.
Honestly, I had always thought that most of the high end TT/tonearm units out there were for the eye candy appeal more than anything else with a marginal improvement in performance. Was I ever shown the light..... |
mine is for sale on a popular place. current bid 199,
someone's going to get a steal. low hours and perfect. |
@avanti1960 I'm looking hard at it.
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Wow great cartridge for se |
Well I got 6 hrs on this cart so far. It has very similar dimensions to
the Dl-301 so installation was a snap. Oh, I stuck a little dab of blue
tack on the nuts and stuck in place on the cart so screwing the screws
from the top was a breeze! Oh man, the magnet on this thing could pick
up nails from a roofing job! Anyways the first thing I noticed was the
soundstage; how huge it is! And the soundstage on the DL-301 is no
slouch. The ART9 has better highs, detail and bass than the DL-301. But
then again its in a different snack bracket! And everybody kept asking
me how much better can it get? It was hard to imagine cause the Denon is
a great cart for the price. I just wanted a cart to end my quest for a
great table/cart combo; to retire with. I read that it takes up to
100hrs to fully break-in. Oh, the first thing that I noticed when I
played a old Nancy Sinatra record was the BLAT from the horns! Just
great!
Cheers, Doug
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Now you can move up from Nancy to Frank. |
My Art9 is breaking nicely. Got about 13 hrs on it. Had some guys over
last night and when I played a older regular pressing of Valdy (Cdn folk
singer), one of the guys told me that he has heard him live several
times; 5 rows away at one time, and this playback was better! And this
cart is still breaking in!
Cheers, Doug
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I'm thinking about getting an ART9 for my current setup, but curious to know what people think:
Speakers: Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Signature
Amplifier: Bryston 4BSST
Phono Preamp: PS Audio GCPH (direct to amp)
Turntable: VPI Prime Scout
Cartridge: Dynavector 10x5 |
It will be a great match for your table. I have the Dynavector DV20X2L and the ART9 is a clear upgrade from that one and should easily top your 10X5 |
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