I am getting back into vinyl, listening to “garage sale” finds and also new albums that I have been picking up. I have a nice old Linn Sondek LP12 with the felt mat. Every time I go to remove a record from the spindle or flip the record, static electricity grabs the felt mat and it sticks like a magnet. I have to very carefully flip the felt mat at the corner with my finger but one of these times I’m going to slip and smudge or scratch a record.
I’ve seen the “Milty Zerostat” and seem to remember this product from back in the day. I see that it is still made and there is one eBay vendor that has them for $77. Is this my best bet? I thought Michael Fremor talked about these in one of his videos.
Are there other products I should look at to reduce static electricity on my records? Thanks for any help you can give.
A mat will do absolutely nothing to contain static. Lewm you answered your own question. The electrons are coming from the air. The stylus rubbing the groove enhances the transfer of electrons. Because diamond is not conductive there is no path to ground. I have owned two Linns in the past. All you have to do is put felt pads at the front corners where the cover contacts the base. The cover should not contact the base anywhere except at the hinges and the felt pads. (you can get them at Home Depot.) I suspect the reason why people think things sound better with the dust cover off is because the echo they get adds a tube like distortion and a false sense of space. If you use the dust cover and pay attention to image specificity you will notice that the individual instruments are better defined. Just play a good recording of a string quartet. I use ESLs and subwoofers. The system is very sensitive to just about anything. Now even if you think there is a slight degradation in sound quality, record preservation is more important. When you play a record without a dust cover and no path to ground dust is pulled into the record rapidly where it is ground into the vinyl. This is a great process for the record cleaning industry. A conductive sweep arm costs 20 bucks. If you have trouble setting it up message me. Play some new records with the dust cover on and a sweep arm. Watch what happens. No static build up, no dust, records stay perfectly clean, no build up on stylus. You might have to clean all your old records once to see the same effect on them but you will and you will never look back. The problem comes with turntables that are not suspended and vibration of the dust cover is passed directly to the structure that has the platter and tonearm attached. Making a usable dust cover for these tables is a bit more complicated and expensive but it can be done as I talk about above. If I ever manage to get a Dohmann Helix I will have to go through that maneuver as the whole darn turntable is suspended. Another advantage of using a dust cover all the time is limiting exposure of the tonearm to dust. Dust is the enemy of delicate bearings that are not sealed. Interestingly this is the one area where uni pivot arms have a distinct advantage not that I would ever buy another one.
@chayro I second the suggestion for Gruv Glide, it is a really excellent product that seems to work as advertised. It does indeed knock back static initially, but one will find that with repeated playings, static still will build up, particularly with the LP12 felt mat. Nonetheless, one could re-apply Gruv Glide and this would work.
@slaw Nice to know that you are a manufacturer of mats, explains a lot. Too bad i did not realize this before.
Fruitloop Just click on his name and select message user. He will hook you up I am sure. If you look at my system, you will see a picture of my Avid TT with cover on it and the mat on the platter is one of Slaws MyMat
@mijostyn. The LP12 is best played without the lid. I don’t know of anyone who listens seriously to the Linn that plays it with the lid on...easy to hear how it impacts the SQ negatively.
Actually I do not know ANYBODY with any half way serious system that plays with the dust cover in position and down on their TT.
OK - I have brought this up before and it always created a strong reaction. Gruv-Glide will totally eliminate the static problem. I will not speak to whether it improves the sound or anything else. It stops the static. I no longer use it because my Basis table has a grounded spindle and it doesn’t seem to be a problem. I have never noticed any degradation in any record I used it on, and when used on a well-cleaned record, I never noticed any problems. This product is still being sold and if it hurt records or sound, I’m sure we’d be hearing about it. So you have your choice - you can fight with static, fool around with ion guns or any other PITA rituals or use GG and end the static. Your choice. Last thing - don’t confuse this with Groove Lube, which, IMO, is a sticky, horrible mess, notwithstanding the fact that I respect the guy that makes it. If you search here for Gruv Glide, you will see the pros and cons and people who were very relieved to have the issue resolved so they could relax and actually listen to music.
@mijostyn. The LP12 is best played without the lid. I don’t know of anyone who listens seriously to the Linn that plays it with the lid on...easy to hear how it impacts the SQ negatively. BTW, for those who don’t know, the Linn LP12 platter is actually a two piece unit, consisting of an inner platter/spindle and an outer platter, I don’t think it rings at all.
I agree that felt platter mats have not been good in my experience, but I never owned an LP12, and it's just possible that felt may sound good on an LP12 platter. Dust covers suck, too. Just couldn't resist contradicting Mijostyn. He knows how I feel about dust covers.
I have yet to see or be able to find scientific evidence that the stylus tip, which is made of diamond, we hope, is the major cause of static charge build-up, but the idea that it is one of the causes is appealing, I admit. I tried to find where diamond sits in the triboelectric series, and I cannot find any table that lists "diamond". However, all tables do list vinyl near the bottom of the list of materials that accept an electron (become negatively charged), as Mijo says. Do you know what materials ARE listed at the very top of the list of materials that lose electrons (become positively charged) most readily? Human skin and air. Since it's impossible to play LPs without exposing them to our skin (unless you wear gloves) and the air around us, is it not just as plausible that LPs acquire negative charge from either or both of those two sources? Years ago, the Shure Corporation published a lengthy white paper on static charge vis a vis the LP. That paper should be read by anyone interested in the phenomenon. In that paper, they said they looked for evidence that the stylus tracing the groove is a cause of static on LPs, and results were negative. Unfortunately, they failed to describe the relevant experiments. Whereas, they did describe many other experiments in detail, and the results are interesting.
Ralph, a very low mass addition to the platter, it is. Maybe..oh...30 grams worth. Considering the mass of the platter, that extra mass is, er, negligible. Very outsized effect.
I’m not arguing the issues of felt, either way. It just tends to work best for the Linn LP12, overall. Tried lots of mats, including the rare methacrylic barium types, etc, and the felt ended up going back on it.
my lp12 platter is damped, it is not stock. I has a near zero mass addition that drops the residual ring out of it by probably ......4+ magnitudes in length/tail (time)
Damped and near zero mass addition?? The only way I know of to do that is by making the platter into two bits so that one bit robs the other of energy at its resonance point. That way the two are anti-resonant, but even then it really helps to apply additional damping. And a felt pad would will be a static and sonic issue! Felt, in a word, sucks, when it comes to LP playback.
my lp12 platter is damped, it is not stock. I has a near zero mass addition that drops the residual ring out of it by probably ......4+ magnitudes in length/tail (time). (the magnitudes thing, it is just a number I'm throwing out there. It is just that the residual ringing is extremely damped, in the correct way)
Even with that, the felt mat still sounds best on this LP12. think of the LP12 as a set piece, and it makes more sense.
Here we go again. Masi, static electricity is created by the stylus rubbing the groove of a material (PVC) that falls at the very bottom of the triboelectric series. Within 30 seconds of the stylus rubbing the groove thousands of volts of static electricity are created. Yes, the Zerostat will neutralize static but you would have to continually squirt the record while it was playing, a bit impractical. The problems with static electricity are that it can discharge into the cartridge causing snaps and pops while playing but worse it pulls dust and pollution deep into the groove where your stylus runs over it and with a total of about 20,000 PSI grinds the stuff right into the vinyl permanently. The absolute best way to deal with this problem is to use a conductive sweep arm that is connected to ground. This discharges the record during play so static does not build up and it clears any incidental dust away from the stylus. Along with the conductive sweep a dust cover that can be used during play is crucial. Most dust covers are unfortunately awful which is why they have such a bad rep. The dust cover can not be attached directly to any structure that the platter and tone arm are attached to. Examples of good dust covers are the SOTA suspended turntables, the Linn and the suspended Thorens tables. The dust covers are attached to the plinth. The platter and the tonearm are mounted on a suspended sub chassis inside. In this case the dust cover makes a sonic improvement as it attenuates the volume of sound getting to the record and tonearm and any resonance from the dust cover can not be passed through to the platter and tonearm. With odd shaped turntables and turntables that are not suspended the best way to create a dust cover is to make a platform of glass or plexi just larger than the turntable and hinge a dust cover to it then just place the turntable inside. This assumes that the turntable has decent feet. There are several companies that will do this for you. How does this work? I never have to clean a record I bought new and I do not buy used records. The only record cleaning device I have is a spin clean. I use it on records people bring to listen on my system. I also use anti static inner sleeves on all my records. I never leave records out. There is no smoking anything inside my house.
IF the OP wants to continue using the Linn's stock felt mat, the Furutech DeStat III is imo the best solution for static. Much better than the Zerostat, but considerably more dough. Not ridiculous though---under $300 I believe (I got mine for less on ebay).
Managing static on the LP12 is not going to happen with a felt mat, we all agree with that. BUT, the question the OP has to answer is if he wants to impact his SQ by going away from the felt mat, or if he wants to do away with static ( although I don't know if any mat will 100% solve this problem). The issue with the mat sticking to the LP ( and yes this is an annoying aspect that we all have with the felt) is addressed by Linn with their double sided tape suggestion.
The Linn felt mat damps out the platter and is spec’ed for the table.
While I suspect you have not really AB’ed a number of mats for the Linn,
the unfortunate thing ( unfortunate, as the felt mat does incur static)
is that of all the mats I have heard on the table ( and that includes
rubber and vinyl) the felt is easily heard as being superior.
@daveyf This really strongly suggests that you are dealing with a resonance- and that the felt is part of the tailored sound as a result. I prefer to kill resonance and vibration entirely. I've had the good fortune to have a platter pad that does that really well (it was designed over a ten year period using many different turntables) and also master tapes- and the machines on which the tapes were made, as well as LPs made from the tapes.
At any rate, felt isn't going to work if you want to get rid of static. A spinning LP made of plastic acts very much in the same way as a Van de Graaff generator but if the LP has a low dielectric constant with respect to the metal platter, static charges can drain off without popping or the like.
@slaw Obviously, but of the many I have heard on the Linn, the stock is preferred. How many mats have others heard on the Linn table? This is the question from the OP, about the Linn LP12, not other tables.
@atmasphere Ralph, this is where we disagree. The Linn felt mat is the best sounding mat for the Linn ( except for maybe the Collaro mentioned above). The Linn felt mat damps out the platter and is spec’ed for the table. While I suspect you have not really AB’ed a number of mats for the Linn, the unfortunate thing ( unfortunate, as the felt mat does incur static) is that of all the mats I have heard on the table ( and that includes rubber and vinyl) the felt is easily heard as being superior. Linn suggest applying a piece of double sided tape to the back of the felt mat to make sure it stays on the table, if one is concerned about that. Would a felt mat be the answer for most tables, definitely not; but with the LP12, I do think Linn know what they are talking about.
Felt is terrible for a mat. The only reason it gets used is for DJ stuff where it can act like a clutch- you can stop the LP but the platter continues to spin.
The function of the platter pad is to damp both the LP so it does not talk back to the cartridge as the groove is traced, and to also damp the platter itself. Felt simply can't do that; if high end audio reproduction is your goal, your investment dollar in the turntable as a whole will not be served by felt in any form.
I have a double thick stiffer backed felt mat for my LP12. with a label indentation area. I pulled it off an old trashed lenco, IIRC. It was glued on, from the factory. Best felt mat ever, so far...
The LP12 needs a felt mat, overall. I've tried many a mat on an LP12, but keep returning to some form of high grade semi compresed felt.
The MyMat wasn’t developed as an anti-static mat. It was developed for superior SQ. Having said that, I haven’t had anyone request a return for any issue but one, that was a listener bias issue.
A felt mat is a no no for any TT. I personally use a Furutech DeStat as well. I believe their is a similar product made by ORB.
I’m not a proponent of the Milty.
Look for a forth coming review by a third party soon.
The Zerostat is imo somewhat tricky to use (if you squeeze the trigger too rapidly, it "clicks"). I long ago found a better static eliminator---the Nagaoka Kilavolt No. 103---but it is long out of production, and rarely seen for sale.
If you don’t mind spending a little money, there is a great one now available---the Furutech Destat III. It’s the best anti-static device I’ve owned and used. Good on CD’s, too!
I’ve always hated felt mats, and though Linn insists theirs is essential to the Sondek’s complete design, I see no reason for that deck to be unique in that regard. I would consider trying the Herbies mat and/or slaw’s. Both are very reasonably priced, and I believe offered with a money-back guarantee.
@masi61 The felt mat on the LP12 is certainly the cause of the static issue ( well one of them), unfortunately it is also the best mat IME for getting the best sound from the table. Replacing the mat will probably mean a reduction in SQ, and no more static issues. Alternatively, if you want to hear what many folks are saying is a great mat ( albeit, at a high price) the Collaro mat is supposed to be better than stock ( I have not heard it).
Again, remove the felt mat. I'm using a Herbies mat on my Linn Axis.
The Zerostat is still a great solution for removing static from a record (there are directions on how to properly use it). There's the Milty, and then there's the original Zerostat on Ebay. Look for a lightly used Discwasher Zerostat, the red one.
Get rid of the felt mat whatever you do. Watch what type shoes you wear during listening. Tennis shoes are the worst. Some use an anti-static mat on the floor at their TT (amazon) grounded to an outlet. US cleaning helps initially but not after several plays. There’s a spray called static-guard for the carpeted floor at your TT.
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