DACs aside, for those considering buying the OPPO 205, there is something you need to know if you plan on using it for a home theater system as well as listening to audio CD's.
The OPPO 205 may have an HDCP conflict with other digital equipment when the OPPO becomes aware of another piece of equipment connected digitally through HDMI.
If there is an equipment conflict, the audio from the OPPO 205 will drop out for 2-3 seconds at random intervals.
The HDMI connection with the OPPO causes it to make HDCP calls to some brands of video display equipment when both are connected via HDMI in the HT system.
I've chased this problem for nearly a month. At first, I thought it was a Sony Bravia making HDMI CEC handshake calls because you cannot turn the CEC feature "OFF" on the Sony - and the Sony is never really powered "OFF," it is always in a standby mode unless unplugged from AC power.
However, through a number (over 10) of email exchanges with OPPO technical people on the dropout problem, I finally got an email reply from OPPO admitting they're aware of the dropout problem and "hope" to fix it with a firmware upgrade at some undetermined, later date.
Apparently, the OPPO 205 is sending out HDCP queries and when the Sony does not answer, the player momentarily times out.
This only happens when playing audio CD's. In my system, the OPPO is used with the OPPO 205 analog outputs, and is also connected to my HT processor through HDMI for use with DVD / BluRay playback.
Dropouts will also happen if the OPPO is connected directly to a video display using HDMI.
My "fix" for the problem is to use an Atlona ETUDE EDID emulator between my home theater center (McIntosh MX122) and the Sony Bravia. The ETUDE acts as a buffer between the equipment.
At this point I have not tested whether the ETUDE is stripping the HDCP request out of the data connection between the equipment, or whether, because the ETUDE is always "ON," it answers the OPPO 205 HDCP call with the EDID information from the Sony.
Either way - no more dropouts with the ETUDE between the OPPO and the Sony.
You have the list price right at $3500. I actually bought mine used for less than $1500 with Wywires umbilical upgrade and full warranty. I saw new ones selling for under $2k recently, but apparently they sold over the past few days.
Have not personally tried a memory stick yet, but Exogal CEO Jeff Haagenstad responds to emails in a few hours or less and I have found him to be pleasant, honest and extremely helpful thus far. He has offered Audiogon members a special price recently on another thread here.
Update: The USB A connection on the rear of the Comet is for charging devices like your iPad or phone, not for memory stick input. My Aurender has the memory stick input feature so I never paid much attention to it before.
They only have three US dealers, none of which are local to me.
I note the rear of the unit does have a USB A input. Can you confirm/deny whether or not it can "plug and play" if a flash memory stick with music files is inserted.
Don't need a $10k+ DAC to substantially better the 205 sonically for two-channel listening. Many fine DACs in the $2-4k range (and less used) will get you there.
@dlcockrum
Point well taken. Hence the reason I have my antenna out in an attempt to understand all options :)
I am a bit hesitant right now about the digital options in front of me. Either I go with a $6-7k loudspeaker and a $4-5k SACD player OR go with a $10k loudspeaker and the Oppo. People have suggested the second option. That way I can use the Oppo as a transport when I get a good DAC later. And this is most likely I am leaning to.
@gdhal , it is hard to believe that we cannot get a serious high end DAC under $10k.
Don't need a $10k+ DAC to substantially better the 205 sonically for two-channel listening. Many fine DACs in the $2-4k range (and less used) will get you there.
The ModWright 205 tube mod is a great option for you milpai (all-in-one solution).
I dare say that if you are able to justify the cost of a truly high end DAC and purchase same, you or anyone else should be in a financial position to then purchase the Oppo on the top of it. The Oppo would then serve as transport.
Keep in mind seriously high end DACs are over 10 grand. So what's another $1,300 on an Oppo?
@dragon_vibe, Sure, I can understand. I am curious as to which high end DACs did you compare the Oppo to. Can you provide in detail on what was missing with the Oppo and how much of a difference the high end DAC made? That will at least give us an idea of what we would miss if we were to go the Oppo route. Or it can help us justifying the cost for a real high end DAC/player. In this day and age, I am still opting for a player than a DAC. Call me old school.
Well, I noticed those with lower budget tend to say anything to justify lower priced items are Giant Killers. This has been going on for years. I have personally tried and it can say from experience this is utterly nonsense. The UDP 205 is no doubt an excellent piece of engineering and well worth the price, but comparing it to high end dacs with engineering focused on higher fidelity is going to leave you disappointed. The Oppo can do many things but its not what I would consider a High End DAC/Player.
For HDMI video the cable that produces an outstanding picture quality is the Monoprice Certified 4k cables. They are not too expensive and I compared them to the top of the line Wireworld, the Monoprice certified 4K is better. With my Oppo 205 I am using the analog outs. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427 ozzy
High end cables of any kind, from Audioquest or Synergistic Research for example, absolutely make noticeable improvements in video reproduction. One should buy what ever one's wallet and sound/video values permit. People that say high end hdmi cables make no difference have poor listening skills or hearing and/or have never heard these type of cables.
Having eyes and ears, and the other two senses too, does not makea person observant. Being able to eat food, or hear sound, or see does not instantly make a person observant.Practice makes perfect.
Observing the details and changes that happen over time with audio and video hones the skills needed to appreciate what high end cable manufacturers create.They know what they are doing!
If you have good listening and viewing skills and so can see and hear differences in video and audio reproductions, then try the Audioquest Cinnamon HDMI.It will please you as you watch and/ or listen to your system.If you can afford the Vodka HDMI cable, by all means get it.
If your visual or audio observation skills are poor, then a better reproduction of video or audio will be difficult, and probably unimportant to you, so don't even read about better cables.
I am using the Diamond HDMI cable.It was like getting an upgrade on my top of the line Sony displays.Brighter, better contrast, blacks, more 3D, transparency, etc. No other way to get these results. Quite shocking really.
Overall, these changes, with the Audioquest HDMI upgrade was very natural.I found the Wireworld cables overly etched and not natural the way they changed the images and audio.
My Modwright Oppo 205 is well broken in now and I am very impressed. I feel that Modwright has taken advantage of an excellent ESS 9038 DAC chip with an excellent transformer coupled tube stage and the results are outstanding. Fine micro details and very dynamic. I felt it had overtaken my PS Audio DS until the recent firmware update which brings the DS up another level. Anyway, my point being the 205 is excellent and the Mods are so worth it for your 2 channel listening.
People post all sorts of things - some true, some not. No doubt in my mind there are more satisfied owners (and even die-hard supporters) of Oppos than any other brand, and for good reasons. One is that they likely sell more than anyone else (excepting the Best Buy-type Blu Ray players), another is that they look and perform superbly and, thirdly, Oppo has good customer support and a great marketing strategy - extremely high value and functionality for HT users and music lovers that want something audibly and visually better than the mass-market commodity products at a palatable price, and they tightly control their distribution network to eliminate price slashing, leaving existing owners with good resale value when the new products come out, thus insuring that many will upgrade as their new products are introduced. Gotta love that. Smart.
All I’m really getting at is that there are lots of great digital products out there, more every day, and many offer superior sound quality at a price, as well they should for the extras $$. Should one choose to stay with the Oppo and be happy staying put, it’s a win. Should one choose to opt for upgrading to a better DAC product (not DAC chip!) for two-channel critical listening and use the outstanding transport (and possibly but less outstanding its streaming capabilities) as a source to the DAC along with the outstanding video/multichannel functionality for HT, it’s a win. Seems Oppo owners can’t loose! Just don’t buy the hype about the Oppo trashing the better DAC products on sound quality without trying one or a few yourself. Fair enough?
As to your statement, I cannot recall or care to link to the specific post, but if memory serves there is at least one fellow on the AVS Forum UDP-205 Owners Thread who purportedly has extremely expensive gear (100K+) and not only gave a thumbs up to the 205 but touted it as best he has heard (paraphrasing). Just saying...
Keep in mind, I grant you and others that at face value, the Oppo UDP-205 should be no match against purpose built DACs costing twice or more the 205 and manufactured by already established high-end companies. On the other hand, stranger things in life have happened.
Merlot DAC is used as my current reference, which will be replaced by a New upcoming DAC priced at 24K from Playback design. Prioror to that I had the MSB DACS, Platinum and Analog. Both of them were sold in favior for Playback design.
The 205 is used for my main Cinema room but I have connected it to my 2 Channel system for a few days. Sat one evening compared it to my Merlot which im selling btw to upgrade to the New Dream Series Playback will be rolling out in a few months.
The Merlot is smoother sounding, Bass is way more defined. the Sound stage is larger with the Playback design. The emotions of the music takes you over.
The oppo is just as transparent as the Playback design but it sounds flatter, less evolving. The bass is not as defined but feels a little boomy at times.
If my Merlot sell I will use my Oppo 205 but not looking forward to this. I don't seem to like the sound for 2 channel music. For Cinema room stuff the oppo is an excellent gear.
Well, you are very well set then! I shoulda known ;) The PS Audio DirectStream is a very fine DAC.
Re: the review, I can't see that the reviewer would be sending out a digital signal from the DAC for his review (what would be the point?), if the Sonica even has a digital out.
Nonetheless, I agree that the lack of specifics leaves a shadow on the perceived credibility of the review. I had just read it a few days prior to your post and it popped into my mind upon reading your post.
For my 2 channel listening I am using a PS Direct Stream Dac with the latest firmware.
I have not directly compared the PS Direct Stream with the Oppo 205 yet due to system configuration. (My 2 channel is a ways away from my home theater equipment.) but I will soon.
I guess my problem with the review you mentioned is this: Is the audio being processed through the Oppo Sonica Dac or is the digital output used and sent to another unit for digital/analog conversion? The reviewer never states and that could make a world of difference. In my opinion it is a very poor review and I would not put too much importance to it.
Thus far my Oppo 205 with the 7.1 analog outputs far exceeds my Oppo 95 which received many great audio reviews. And, I would believe it to be a very good 2 channel stand alone player. Perhaps not to the level of the PS Direct Stream or the Ayre But what a price difference!
@dragon_vibe , Can you please explain the differences you are hearing between the Merlot and the Oppo 205? For the price difference, I would not be surprised, especially when the Merlot is a FGPA based that the designer can custom-code to their liking. I am assuming that you got the Oppo to be used as a transport?
Why would anyone buy a $9k digital component vs a $1300 one that has much more functionality.
No argument here and I get your point. In fact, you are likely entirely if not at least partially correct. However, I’d like to offer another *possible* answer; because the $9K unit is WAY over priced to begin with given the manufacturers desire/need to profit exorbitantly and a result of their WAY lower sales volume relative to Oppo.
I in no way intended to cast any dispersion on the Sabre DACs. Probably as good as any and better than most. There are also other great DAC chips (AKM used in Esoteric and Hegel products and TI/Burr Brown used in some top DACs) and also the RTR ladder DACs that many prefer. IMO, it’s all about implementation.
All things inside an audio component affect the sound quality: DACS, power components, caps and other passive components, opamps, circuit boards, wiring, chassis, etc. The Oppo is a fine multi-channel/video player, but built to a price point. Considering all of its functionality (the "swiss army knife of digital audio/video"), Oppo has done a fantastic job of maximizing performance for $1300. BUT, keeping it real, cost has to have prohibited their use of some critical non-DAC components that are used in the better (and usually more expensive) stand-alone two-channel purpose-driven offerings. If you have doubts about that, maybe call Ric Schultz of EVS who mods the Sonica DAC and discuss this with him as I have.
Jeffrey: There are those that are implementing the same Sabre DACs as used in the Oppo 205 in a dual-mono configuration to reduce crosstalk between the channels and for other reasons. Some are operating them at a higher "bias" that is not possible with both channels driven through one DAC chip, partially due to the heat generated by this approach. L.K.S. is one that I am familiar with.
gdgal: No disrespect to you either, but are you serious? I can assure you that the implementation of the Sabre DAC in the $9k Ayre unit is much different than the Oppo 205/Sonica DAC. Ayre has risen to the top tier of audio by optimizing the entirety of design and implementation. Why would anyone buy a $9k digital component vs a $1300 one that has much more functionality. Because it sounds better.
Would just like to point out, given your concern with the DAC, that the Sabre
ES9038PRO is also used in a $9,000 Ayre component, and I do not believe (although perhaps I'm mistaken) it is implemented any differently than the $1,300 Oppo. Again, no disrespect, just pointing it out.
dlcockrum, Yes, you make a very good point regarding implementation of DAC chips but the Sabre is an 8-channel part. So, four channels of the Sabre are stacked (paralleled) for both the left and right stereo outputs from one chip not two chips. That was how the Oppo 95 was configured and most but not all other Sabre DACs. Now for 105 and I believe 205 Sabre chip breaks down as, one pair of DAC channels feeds the RCA stereo outputs, a second pair feeds the stereo XLR balanced outputs, and two pairs are stacked for the headphone output. The second chip like you said is used for RCA analog output jacks.
Facts first: The Sonica DAC uses the same DAC chip as the 205 - the ESS ES9038 PRO Sabre DAC .The 205 uses two - but here is the fatal flaw IMO - instead of using the two ESS DAC chips in a dual mono config as some of the better players/DACs out there using the same two chips, Oppo chose to use one for two channel and one for multi-channel, so the two channel mode see no improvement from the second chip beyond what the Sonica provides.
Another review of the Sonica DAC (http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/dac/oppo-digital-sonica-dac-review/) substantiates that the 205 uses the same digital hardware, power supply, and architecture as the Sonica DAC and goes further to state that they anticipate that the Sonica DAC will "have the edge" in sound quality since the 205 shares the same circuitry, but with addition of the video, multi-channel circuitry in the single chassis drawing on the same power supply and possibly introducing noise to the two channel circuitry. That makes sense to me.
As to the validity of the whathifi reviewer's opinion, who knows.There are no reviews of either product by what I consider to be the more highly-regarded audiophile publications (I have to wonder why that is given all the buzz about Oppo in the past), only home theater publications. I suspect that the rapid acceleration of the sound quality of many digital two-channel products, new and older brands, has caught up to and surpassed Oppo and they are content to be the choice brand of home theater aficionados for the present. Nothing wrong with that, but it does speak to the Oppos competitiveness when two-channel sound quality is the main goal IMO.
The good news is that the 205 is, by all accounts, a fine home theater product (video and multichannel) and has what looks to be a first class transport mechanism, so it could be ideal for use in a mixed home theater/multichannel and two channel system WITH the addition of one of the plethora of fine two-channel DACs out there.
Ozzy, I have known you for a long time via this forum (all the way back to your SR days) and have great respect for your experience and hearing prowess. I suggest you consider trying a great two-channel DAC fed from your 205's transport and see what you think then.
I read the review that you referred to "Sonica Dac". First off, the reviewer doesn’t state what actual dac’s are in it. Second, it doesn’t show if they are using the digital or analog outs. Third, he doesn’t state the equipment he used it with. So, that review is suspect and would not necessary apply to the newer Oppo 205.
I wonder how the modwright modded Oppo 205 would sound or perform against the Ayre players. Just curious. Cause I've heard from a lot of people that a heavily modded modwright Oppo 105 is substantially better than a stock Oppo 105.
I bought the Samsung 85" 4K a couple of years ago. (Cost $10,000 then but they are about $1000 less now). Recently I purchased the Samsung evolution kit bringing it up to current status including deep blacks and color. Wow, its like a new set! So, I would assume that the newer models already have these features installed. I will say it takes a little effort to get the settings right. New from the box or in the stores everything is peaked for a bright picture. But once you get it locked in its impressive. I also found that Monoprice certified 4K HDMI cables to be better than the other $$$ cables from Wireworld.
milpai,
I would also go for option #2. Spend more money on your speakers.
It's easy for me to answer your question by choosing option 2. I already have the UDP-205 for a few months now, and tomorrow I expect to receive my pair of Golden Ear Triton Reference speakers.
Thanks @dbphd, @gdhal and @ozzy. What would you guys do, if you set a budget of $11k and had to buy a pair of loudspeaker and a disc player. Which of the following would you purchase: 1. $6k loudspeaker and $4.5k disc spinner OR 2. $10k loudspeaker and the Oppo UDP-205?
I have been told that instead of going with the Oppo, I should go with some high end player from either Marantz, Luxman or Esoteric. Confusion sets in easily, when you are presented with too many options.
Well I have had the Oppo 205 for a few months now and conclude it is the best "swiss army knife" player ever made. 4K movies are amazing! Surround sound analog from the Oppo with these movies is quite impressive For music, the cool thing is even with my 4TB external hard drive connected to my Bryston BDP-2 the Oppo picks it up from my router and can play the music through the Oppo outputs. The only draw back is I must turn on my 85" UHD Samsung to access the track listings. There appears to be no way to access the Oppo wirelessly through my laptop. I think there is an app for a cell phone but with my vision I probably couldn’t read it. ozzy
On the audio only side, I'd venture to say the Sabre DAC and the rest of the analog circuit can produce reference sound quality when used in a resolving system.
I recently connected the 205 to the Ayre K-5xeMP via balanced analog. The sound is now very close to that of the Ayre C-5xeMP, i.e., superb stereo. For this particular pairing, balanced makes a difference despite Oppo's claim that XLR and RCA outputs should sound identical. Ayre emphasizes fully balanced and zero feedback design, so my experience may not generalize to preamps or processors of other manufacturers.
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