No worries. In the past 6 years, I've listened to many high end headphones. I've got the MWT short lately and these sounded extremely good. The vocal, soundstage and imaging is better than any pair of headphones I've heard.
Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?
Hi,
I'd love to hear the impressions of people who've actually spent some time with these speakers to share their sense of their plusses and minuses. Mapman here on Audiogon is a big fan, and has shared lots on them, but I'm wondering who else might be familiar with them.
I'd love to hear the impressions of people who've actually spent some time with these speakers to share their sense of their plusses and minuses. Mapman here on Audiogon is a big fan, and has shared lots on them, but I'm wondering who else might be familiar with them.
2,916 responses Add your response
Rbf, Here's the good news: You're about to experience omnidirectional loudpeakers - and very fine examples of the breed, as it happens. I think almost all listeners are initially struck by the unique spatial presentation characteristic of this design approach. IME, many people immediately fall in love with it, but a few do not. Since the Ohms are sold with an in-home/money back trial period, you'll quickly ascertain which side of the fence you fall on, with limited economic risk. As to some people bailing after enjoying the speakers for a period of time, well....welcome to the world of audio hobbyists. There are many different ways that manufacturers "skin the cat" and no single approach covers every base. After some period of time, it's not uncommon to want to try something a bit different than what you've been living with...even if you've still got a good thing going. There's always a certain excitement inherent in something new. In your case, at the moment, your new relationship will be with the Ohms. If it's a fling, send 'em back. If it feels like a keeper, keep 'em. As to whether or not that lovin' feeling fades over time, I suspect that you'll just have to wait and see. Congrats on the purchase! Marty (Now going on year 5 with Ohm 100s and not looking around, except for the ocassional glance at MBLs). |
I bought my first Walsh 2s in 1982. Circa 1986 or so, when I got a real job and some money, I started a fling with Magnepans and kept both until about 3 years ago. I also added a pair of B&W P6s and Triangle Titus along the way in that my house is wired for audio in multiple rooms. The Maggies were kings until about three years ago when I got upgrade fever again. The Maggies and Walsh 2s were both 20 years old + by then. I sampled everything at all price points. Read some reviews of the latest OHMs and decided to try them. The rest is history. Others sound nice but the OHMs sound like music and rule. If that makes you feel any better. Hey even Christy Brinkley's husband was not satisfied. Go figure! There are always plenty of fish in the sea. |
One of the things about this speaker that just calls to me is summed up when John Potis writes that "...these Walsh speakers are designed for those who want to enjoy their music while they live their life." That really appeals to me. I don't generally listen to music just sitting in one spot and concentrating (analytical?). For that I use headphones. The purpose of these speakers will be to have music playing in our livingroom while we have dinner, when we come home from work, when we have friends over, etc. While we LIVE! The idea that they'll sound pretty great just filling a room is so appealing, and when I go audition other speakers and the salesmen have me sit in a specific seat and insist that I not get up and move around the room to make an assessment defeats my purpose for buying speakers in the first place. |
The OHM is a unique design due largely to its use of the wave bending wide range Walsh driver. The omni presentation combined with ability to be placed relatively close to walls if needed is probably the most unique feature. Second is the wide range omni Walsh driver covers most of the audio range where music occurs with one driver. That results in a highly coherent room filling sound that is distinctive. It will not sound like any other speaker exactly. Few speakers sound exactly alike so a choice based on preference must be made. More so with the OHM because it is so unique. Audio is all about making choices that best suit your needs. The thing with the OHMs is that if you like what it does, there is really not much else out there like it to choose from. Decware has a speaker at a good price point that appears somewhat similar. THat is about it. There are other omnis and other speakers that use Walsh driver technology but those cost a lot more. |
Rbf, If you go back to your original post of the mwt's vs the vandersteens, you'll find my post about fine tuning your set up. I discovered this accidentally when I was moving the speakers around. I moved them out from the wall for the best bass, and then when I started moving them away from the side walls, when I hit 33 inches off the side walls, I had walked out of the room to do something, and when I came back and turned the music back on, it sounded like the whole room had become a speaker. I was stunned, and said "This is what they're supposed to sound like". This technique worked with both the mwt's and my current 1000's. The sound just permeates the room. I find it very appealing and addictive. The Ohms also , to me, sound more like a performance than a recording, and that's what seperates them from all the other speakers that I've heard. As far as upgrading your current equipment, I have my 1000's paired with a modest 100 wpc Yamaha reciever and a Sony DVD/CD player and the sound is impressive. I decided to put more money into the speakers and upgrade my electronics later. Believe me, even with modest associated equipment, the Ohms sound amazing. Keep us informed of your progress, and we will try to help you with any questions or problems you may have. Good Luck Joe |
I'm just salivating waiting to get mine. Out of curiosity, does the wrong placement make them sound like bad, cheap speakers, or does the wrong placement merely not give the full, intended sound? All I really have to compare them to directly in my home will be Audioengine 5 active speakers, and my Epos ELS3 bookshelves. |
Rbf1138, In my own experience, correct placement of the Ohms is like "getting them in focus". They will sound pretty good where ever you put them, but to hear what makes them special, getting them in the right position is essential. I'd move both speakers one inch at a time and then sit and listen for a while before I made another adjustment. It took about three weeks until I accidently hit the right spot, and Bingo! All of a sudden, it sounded like the room and speakers were working as one, giving me a sonic landscape that still brings a smile to my face. You'll have to experiment. If the bass sounds too loose, move them closer together, too much bass, move them further away from the back wall, ect. I actually hade fun doing this, as I was eager to hear the Ohm magic that I had read about in this thread and in independent reviews. A little patience and perseverance will pay off handsomely. And don't forget, they take some break in, so they may sound a bit reserved and stuffy at first, but will open up more with time. Joe |
Joefish nailed it! At first its largely about getting the right "focus" and allowing initial break in. Once it sounds as Joe describes, then you assess what tweaks if any might be applied upstream to take things to a higher level. I've found once dialed in that the OHMs will respond to most all common tweak types that knowledgeable listeners might recommend. That can be anything from maxing out performance with the amp, tweaking the sound via a pre-amp, or even via ICs, cleaner power, etc. |
Well, sounds like my black wood finished Talls aren't gonna ship till next week. This thread will be the one thing to tide me over until I can finally hear them myself. Have you ever played videogames with the Ohms? Eventually I'll probably go with a real 5.1 setup, but I'm curious how they do with modern videogame sound effects. |
Well, my kids have an xbox and Wii between them but neither hooked up to my audio systems or OHMs. I have played various sound effects available via Squeezebox Touch off the internet and gotta say sound effects that you might be familiar with in nature or society make for some very interesting reference sound sources. My bigger OHM 5s (only ones I have tried) ace the test in this regard. Locomotives sound like locomotives. Thunderstorms like Thunderstorms. Birds like birds. running water like running water. With eyes closed, I'd venture to say it was hard to tell the difference, even at seemingly fairly realistic volumes. Its a real eye/ear opener. Micros are much smaller but I would expect fairly similar performance is possible at least in a smaller room. Hold tight. I hope things can live up to the high expectations! |
Rbf1138, I've got my Ohms in black finish, and thet look great. Another thing I wanted to say that the Ohms, properly set up, seem to use the room to their advantage, and when the room and speakers are interacting properly, wonderful things happen. I've never heard a speaker that turns the whole room into an immersive soundscape the way the Ohms can, and can fill the room at low as well as high volume. This is one of the qualities that I love about the Ohms. Much of my listening is done while the rest of the house sleeps, so I have to listen at lower volumes, but because of the way the Ohms fill the room, I never feel like I'm missing out. The soundstage remains intact, and the performance still sounds full bodied, but just a bit more distant. Hope you love the Ohms. I will give you a list of possible cd's to use for set up, and ones that make the Ohms really shine in another post. Joe |
There are a few recordings that IMHO show the Ohm imaging trick off to great effect: You might want check ' em out and see if any click for you. If so, pick one up for early listening. I think any of these will give you a great sense of the Ohm effect at its most dramatic. Alejandro Escovedo. With These Hands from the CD With These Hands Original Cast Theme From Shaft Lindsey Buckingham It Was You from the CDUnder The Skin Duke Ellington Far East Suite pretty much all tracks Joan Armatrading Love and Affection from Track Record These recordings (among many, many others) really allow the Ohm to "light up" the front of the room and create the sense of a performance space within your listening room. It's very cool and a lot of fun. Marty |
A few comments for Rbf1138: I agree with all the recent posts here. I would add emphasis on the break in period. When I got my new 2000s, the timbre of intruments was amazing right out of the box, but many other aspects of the sound developed over time. They had broken in enough by the end of the trial period for me to decide to keep them, but they continued to smooth out and become more dynamic for a number of months afterwards. Also, make sure the Ohms are level, and level with each other. And toe-in is counterintuitive on Ohms: Toeing them in reduces the treble output of the tweeter at the listening seat, while toeing out increases it. I have settled on a slight toe-in, but I am sure some would say the treble rolls off too much. I like it that way - I still get excellent detail reteival, but no fatigue from over-bright recordings. I own the Neko Case CD "Fox Confessor Brings the Flood" and it is a marvelous, well recorded disc that really shows off my Ohms. I brought it to a local Hi-Fi club one time to use as a demo and lots of my audiophile buddies were asking to see the case so they could buy it. My Ohms made sense of many recordings that had sounded horrible on my Vandersteen 1Cs. One example is the Gladiator soundtrack. This can sound like garbage on systems that are too forward in the upper-mids, dry, that lack resolution, or that compress at high SPLs. On my system, with the Ohms, the recording is indeed as good as Harry Pearson says it can be - very dynamic, detailed, and full of diverse orchestral textures. I can't count the number of pinched, congested, over-bright rock recordings that finally became listenable with the Ohms. My hunch is that the lack of a crossover in the midrange or upper-midrange at least contributes to this wonderfull quality. It's great to choose recordings based on one's preference, without being limited to audiophile-approved recordings (which sound incredibly good on the Ohms). |
When I first had my 5000's, I hadn't listened to fine stereo in quite awhile and naively placed them near my wall (glass windows actually) towards the corners. I thought they sounded great of course, not having had a reference point for many years. I upgraded some components and following mapman's suggestions began moving them out from the rear windows and in from the corners. Now that I have them where I want them, I've reached a point of supreme satisfaction such that I don't wish to move them further. It's hard to explain in words, but when one reaches the correct placement it's a bit like discovering resonance; that is, you suddenly say to yourself, now THAT'S sweet. I find that I forget about right speaker/left speaker as it becomes completely irrelevant. As to you setup, become comfortable with what you have for 6 months or so before changing or upgrading components. That way the previous experience will be well drilled into your memory. For me, adding a more powerful amp helped the low end, but these are 5000's and yours may be quite happy with what you have. The other big, big difference for me with vinyl was adding a step up transformer to the MC cartridge before feeding into the MM input. It just revealed the bass in the vinyl. Oh yeah, the speaker placement helped with that too. |
"I find that I forget about right speaker/left speaker as it becomes completely irrelevant." To take that a bit further, once dialed in the physical location of the speakers may be totally disassociated with the soundstage and location of things in it. My 5s are in a decent sized L shaped room skewed to the left to fire mainly into the long dimension, about 5 feet from the rear wall. I sit at various locations within the long part of the room to listen anywhere from nearfield to ~ 15 feet back or so. When closer to the speakers, I can see the side wall all the way to the left in the short dimension. The further back I sit, I see less of the left hand portion of the rear wall, until about 7 feet back or so I only see the long length and the listening area becomes essentially a rectangle. Despite the OHMs location being skewed well to the left of center of the short dimension to face into the long, the soundstage is generally symetrical with the width of the short length I can see. When close to the speakers, the center of the image can be essentially to the right of the speaker on that side. Listening from further back, the soundstage becomes more symetrical around the speakers and less wide. Where I sit makes a big difference in soundstage width and where the center of the soundstage actually is. I mention this because I have found if you are used to listening to speakers, and expecting the sound to come mostly from where they are located, it can be disorienting and what you hear suffers. ONce the OHMs and your listening habits adjust and are locked in, it is golden. |
My mwt 's arrived on friday. Very impressive. I will have further post soon but my prelimninary thought is that they are the most non audiophile high end audiophile speaker ive heard. In a great way.... Second i put them in both my great room with hard wood floors no furntiture and large windows... Their ability to charge or couple tonthe room is unbeleivable. I then put them in my smaller tv room......equally impressive in a different way. Im happy.... |
Kbuzz - Interesting... I moved from my MWT's to a pair of Harbeth P3-ESR's. I had the Ohms for quite a while, but the bass was too much for my room, so I really needed a good pair of monitors. I miss my Ohm's but I now know that I made the right decision - I ended up selling my MWT's back to John, and we had a nice conversation, when I dropped them off (I live in NYC, and happily dropped them off to John's work-place. Actually, I also picked them up there, when I bought them, so I went full circle!). Anyway, I still recommend Ohms to lots of people, and I'm always happy to see them thrive. When I get a bigger space, look out! |
Well, I guess tastes differ. I had an audiophile buddy over for a brief audition of my system on Sunday. I thought the thing was sounding pretty good, but he was clearly less than impressed. Afterwards, he asked me if I had intentionally built a Gundry dip into the system. Hmmm. That was interesting because what I like about my rig with the 2000s is that there is no glare or edge in the upper-mid to lower-treble range (to which I am very sensitive). I don't feel like I am missing any of the music, but maybe if one is less sensitive to that range, or if one is used to a system that spotlights that part of the frequency spectrum, it might sound that way. I do have them toed-in slightly. Interestingly, I do feel that many of the better systems I hear have as their Achiles' heel some glare in that range. I shrugged my shoulders. It is possible that people who hear differently will never "get" the Ohm Walsh sound. Heck, many speakers that I consider overly-bright and glarey sell well, and for very high prices. I still wouldn't trade my Ohms for those speakers, and some of them cost many multiples of my 2000s. To me, once you hear Ohms, with their finely detailed sound without any of the etch or grain of overly-bright speakers, there's no going back. |
Bondman, Have you ever heard your buddy's system? I wonder what it is like? I could make the same observation about my OHMs versus my Dynaudios which both are run off my system concurrently in different rooms. The Dyn's always seem at least a touch "hotter" in the midrange no matter what. Yet both probably measure fairly similarly flat in that area though likely not exactly the same. I doubt there is any significant measurable difference though there is little chance of mistaking one for the other typically I would say. |
Also I belive a Gundry dip refers to a dip in the 2-4 khz area with which I read some BBC monitors/speakers in particular are associated. Most speakers have crossover points somewhere in there as well but the OHMs crossover a fair bit higher, so it is an area where I expect a lot of subtle differences among speakers can be heard. |
I had the Micros in the past (loved them), then the 100 (loved those too) and now the 3000. Really love them. You need to give the Ohms at least 25 hours to start breaking in. Before that they will sound congested, no soundstage, ie, the sound is stuck to the speakers- like youÂ’d experience with a table radio, and limited in hight and low frequency extension. So IÂ’d hold off on posting impressions prior to 25 hours. About 100 hours in they will really sing. IÂ’m blown away at how my 3000s sound. |
Speakers were delivered and I quickly set them up, In the 20 minutes I had to listen, after a haphazard setup, I'm extremely pleased. At first I thought something wasn't quite right and then found that the grills have cardboard in them for shipping, lol. That sorted things out! With the little I got to listen to, it was clear they're gonna be amazing when I have time for a proper setup. Closing my eyes, it sounded like the music was being played live in the room. Will have more next week when I'm back from vacation. |
I certainly liked them out of the box! Keep in mind I haven't heard many speakers upwards of $1000, so these are a major step up to my ears from most anything. I think I need better speaker cables, though. Right now I'm using $35 banana cables I got on Amazon. Any sub-$100 cable you guys would recommend that would be solid and a good improvement? |
So I'm looking at the Blue Jeans speaker cable, and I'm confused. If I want their best quality cables, with banana plugs on both ends, what're the differences between: Belden 5000UE 12 AWG Speaker Cable, Terminated BJC Twelve White Speaker Cable, Terminated BJC Ten White Speaker Cable, Terminated Belden 5T00UP 10 AWG Speaker Cable, Terminated Canare 4S11 Speaker Cable, Terminated The prices are similar, if not the same for some of them. I know to choose "Bananas to Bananas" for the termination, but otherwise I know very little about cables and would appreciate some guidance! Thanks! |
I would also consider the Kimber 4VS cables. A tad over-budget, but I have the older version of these and like them. I do plan to upgrade, though. Cables can be a matter of taste, so I would recommend you only buy cables you can return. Buying the Kimbers at Audio Advisor will give you that option, as will buying direct from Blue Jeans Cables. Also check out signalcable.com - low prices on well regarded cables that you can send back if you don't like them. |
As per above, mine are only two weeks old. But if they break in the way i think they are headed, and based on past performance with other gear, im going to surmise that the signal cable silver resolution will be a nice match. Im using some audio art cables ive had lying around right now, but RBF, i would not hesitate to try some Blue jeans cabling as well. |
How would these compare to DecWare ERR Radials? Are there other similar designs out there? I didn't know of these but came across them by chance. I haven't read every post here so forgive me if this has already been asked. |
Batch, the question of how much power for the OW2/2000 depends on several things. Room size, how loud you like your music. For what it is worth, I had a pair of 2/2000's for awhile in a room that measured roughly 15.5' X 16.5', with an adjoining kitchen/dining room area and two hallways off of this main room. So a decent amount of space to fill. If you do not play your music loudly, you might be okay with the 2000's, but in the end, and using Ohm's guide for speaker/room size, the 3000 was and is a btter choice for me. Where it mattered as to size of space, was mainly in the bass end of things, the 2000 could run out of steam in this space, the 3000 does not. I sometimes do like my music loud, not ear-splitting, but at decent volumes. As to the power question itself, my system comprised of several solid-state amplifiers, 2 Anthems, one a PVA-2 rated at 105 wpc/8 ohm, a MCA-20 rated at 200 wpc/8 ohm, and my Audio Research D-130, rated at 130 wpc/8 ohm. All of these did fine for me on the 2/2000, but I did feel that with the MCA20 and also the ARC, did a bit better handling the load of the Ohm better at higher volumes. My opinion is with the Ohm's, the more power-as long as it is good clean power and you are not overdriving your amp, the better. But, I have also read on this forum a few folks that have done well with fairly low-powered tube gear as well. It is all a matter of taste, try what you have and go from there. I don't find the Ohm's to be overly sensitive to what you have, and many use fairly budget gear with great results, but one thing is, the Ohm's will definately improve with better gear if/when you move up the ladder. Enjoy your music, and your Ohm's! Tim |
"My opinion is with the Ohm's, the more power-as long as it is good clean power and you are not overdriving your amp, the better." This is true though for smaller rooms it can become overkill at some point sooner. Look at power in reserve with the OHMs as your insurance policy to help rise to any occasion as needed. Current delivery is key even for lower power amps with even the smaller OHMs, which will generally go into smaller rooms and require less power to go loud in relation. Expect amps capable of delivering more current at any particular power rating to fair better in general. For Class A or A/B amps, this usually translates into more size and weight. The exception is Class D amps, which I use and can recommend highly with the OHMs for outstanding performance in a smaller and perhaps less expensive package. |
"How would these compare to DecWare ERR Radials? Are there other similar designs out there?" Have not heard the DECWares to compare but from what I read, the design seems closest to some of the smaller OHM Walsh CLS perhaps as anything I have seen. They do not mention using Walsh technology or applying a wave bending approach, but the driver configuration appears similar to OHM CLS/Walsh. The OHMs appear to be designed by default (custom mods can be requested) to work better closer to walls perhaps. |
BAtch, Having cut my teeth pairing OHMs and other speakers with many vintage receivers years ago at Tech Hifi, I think you can do a lot better soundwise with the new OHMs than you can with any vintage receiver. SIngle unit receivers generally have to compromise on power supplies and current delivery in order to work well. They are at the far end of the spectrum from what will work best. Not that it won't sound good, just not likely to max out what the OHMs can do. A good integrated is likely better but I would recommend even a separate power amp or even monoblocks in general for best results if possible. I'd look at some of the less expensive Class D amps as a great place to start, perhaps even used. |
Regarding using tube amps, yes, many report good results with tube amps. In many cases, I think people with tube amps also use separate powered subwoofers to offload the heavy power requirements for the low end from the tube amp so it is better able to work its magic elsewhere. Its surely a personal preference/taste type thing also to some extent, but personally I believe one would need a fairly heft tube amp indeed to power at least the larger OHMs to their maximum potential solo. |
I can also recommend the TAD 125 Hibachi monoblocks to make the OHMs sing more along the lines of a tube amp. These can come in used on Agon for well under $1000 a pair and are a fantastic bargain. The only caveat is that TAD shut down operations recently and the owner who had a sterling reputation for his designs and customer service unfortunately passed away recently as well, so any servicing down the road would have to be done elsewhere. But that should help assure very favorable used prices for those interested. |
Batch - As usual, I fully agree with Mapman. I have a pair of 2000s, in a basement that is about 20' X 18' X 6' (yes, a low ceiling), so it is in the upper range of the cubic footage for the 2000. I power them with an Odyssey Stratos HT3 w/cap upgrade (150 watts/channel). I do cross them over, first order, to a pair of Vandersteen 2Wq subs, so the power demands are reduced somewhat. Although I believe I have enough juice, one day I would like to try some really high powered amps with them, based on what Mapman and others have said. Arion Audio makes some very sweet sounding Class D and tube hybrid class D monoblock amps with either 250 or 500 watts each. I'd love to hear my Ohms on those, but due to financial considerations, I'll have to wait. They are not crazy expensive, and based on hearing them on several occassions, I think they are a terrific value. All that said, I did briefly hook up the 2000s, full range, to a vintage 1993 Onkyo surround receiver. I was knocked over by how good they sounded driven by the Onkyo, which is rated at about 80 watts/channel. The bass was full and deep. The bass was so good that if I didn't love my Vandy subs, I might consider running the Ohms full range and selling the subs. But I do love my Vandy subs! I am hardly unhappy with the sound I have now, even if every now and then I wonder if more power would improve on the already stellar Ohms. I may upgrade the amps someday, but the Ohms stay! |