What Jaybo said is a good start.
I think Ohm recommends separation equal distance from listening position in order to direct the tweets towards the prime listening position.
If the speaks are too far apart, you can get a hole in the sound stage in the middle, so just listen for that and move them a bit closer together if needed to get focused imaging near the center of the soundstage. |
I hope you all enjoy your new Ohms. I have enjoyed both the micros and the 100s. Give yourself some time to get used to the sound and I'm sure you will be very pleased! |
Jaybo,thanks for that.
Mapman, I appreciate the advice.
I am nearing the end of a very, very busy time at work and look forward to getting to spend lots of time with the Ohm's during an upcoming stay-at-home vacation! I'll report back as I have impressions to share. |
By the way, they do look sharp in black, and the fit and finish is pretty good. :-) |
Enjoy, Rebb! Keep posting you're impressions, and give 'em time to settle in... |
Zkzpb8,
Thanks! And does anybody know what the recommended break-in period on these puppies is? The review on Six Moons.com seem to imply that it was something like 40 hours... |
i'd say less, but i've always found ohms to sound pretty satble right out of the box. |
I'm not certain but I don't think the smaller CLS drivers on the micros take too long to come into their own when. |
Mine didn't come with any kind of manual - I emailed John if I had a question - he always emailed back quickly.
If the room is live and they're close to the back wall, they can generate lo end - try to keep the speakers away from the back wall, but experiment. In my case, I tuck them about a foot away for casual listening/TV, but move them out for critical listening (equal triangle). Like you said, they're very easy to move around, so that helps. |
Everybody,
I had a little more time to listen to them yesterday. (Every time I post here, I become aware how pathetically busy my life is these days...)
I guess I'll cut to the chase and say that after about half an hour listening to a number of different cuts from various CDs, I nearly picked up the phone and called John Ohm to tell him how thrilled I was...
Okay, granted that the Totems were not nearly broken in, but I have to say that the bass response on the Micro-Walsh Talls absolutely puts the Totems to shame. The bass on the Walshes is not only far more powerful, but it also impresses me as being more fleshed out and more articulate than on the Totems. For example, the title cut on Donald Fagen's most recent solo CD, "Morph the Cat," opens with a very deep and very powerful solo line on the electric bass. On the Totems, the the bass is "there," but it sounds rather anemic and homogenized. On the Ohm's, not only is the base much "fatter," but you can also hear more than the notes themselves: you can hear the texture of the notes... you can hear the notes are coming from a stringed instrument which is being plucked. It's wonderful!
I've already mentioned, in a previous post, how impressive the opening Japanese drum crashes are on the Princess Mononoke film soundtrack are. I guess what makes them so impressive is not just, at lease perceptually, how deep the day seems to go, but that these little tower speakers are really capable of "moving some air."
The other thing I noticed |
Everybody,
I had a little more time to listen to them yesterday. (Every time I post here, I become aware how pathetically busy my life is these days...)
I guess I'll cut to the chase and say that after about half an hour listening to a number of different cuts from various CDs, I nearly picked up the phone and called John Ohm to tell him how thrilled I was...
Okay, granted that the Totems were not nearly broken in, but I have to say that the bass response on the Micro-Walsh Talls absolutely puts the Totems to shame. The bass on the Walshes is not only far more powerful, but it also impresses me as being more fleshed out and more articulate than on the Totems. For example, the title cut on Donald Fagen's most recent solo CD, "Morph the Cat," opens with a very deep and very powerful solo line on the electric bass. On the Totems, the the bass is "there," but it sounds rather anemic and homogenized. On the Ohm's, not only is the base much "fatter," but you can also hear more than the notes themselves: you can hear the texture of the notes... you can hear the notes are coming from a stringed instrument which is being plucked. It's wonderful!
I've already mentioned, in a previous post, how impressive the opening Japanese drum crashes are on the Princess Mononoke film soundtrack are. I guess what makes them so impressive is not just, at lease perceptually, how deep the day seems to go, but that these little tower speakers are really capable of "moving some air."
The other thing I noticed is how amazing the speakers are at imparting a sense of depth and presence when presenting well recorded live recordings.
For example, I was listening to a fairly new, James Taylor live CD called "One-Man Band." It was recorded in an old, historic theater somewhere in the Berkshires of Massachusetts.
It's really difficult to describe just how thrillingly these little speakers reproduce the sense that you are sitting in that theater, the performers arrayed in front of you on a stage. Yes, James Taylor's voice does sound miked, but far from being offensive, is actually pretty stunning, because it sounds the way a concert public address system would sound if you were sitting somewhere out in the audience. Furthermore, on one gorgeous performance, "My Traveling Star," Taylor is accompanied by a large choral group, singing harmonies. The sense, again, the members of the chorus standing mid-stage, with "air" and proper acoustic space surrounding them |
Everybody,
I had a little more time to listen to them yesterday. (Every time I post here, I become aware how pathetically busy my life is these days...)
I guess I'll cut to the chase and say that after about half an hour listening to a number of different cuts from various CDs, I nearly picked up the phone and called John Ohm to tell him how thrilled I was...
Okay, granted that the Totems were not nearly broken in, but I have to say that the bass response on the Micro-Walsh Talls absolutely puts the Totems to shame. The bass on the Walshes is not only far more robust, but it also impresses me as being more fleshed out and more articulate than on the Totems. For example, the title cut on Donald Fagen's most recent solo CD, "Morph the Cat," opens with a very deep and very powerful solo line on the electric bass. On the Totems, the the bass is "there," but it sounds rather anemic and homogenized. On the Ohm's, not only is the bass much "fatter," but you can also hear more than the notes themselves: you can hear the texture of the notes... you can hear that the notes are coming from a stringed instrument which is being plucked. It's wonderful!
I've already mentioned, in a previous post, how impressive the opening Japanese drum crashes on the Princess Mononoke film soundtrack are. I guess what makes them so impressive is not just, at least perceptually, how deep the bass seems to go, but that these little tower speakers are really capable of "moving some air."
The other thing I noticed is how amazing the speakers are at imparting a sense of depth and presence when presenting well recorded live recordings.
For example, I was listening to a fairly new, James Taylor live CD called "One-Man Band." It was recorded in an old, historic theater somewhere in the Berkshires of Massachusetts.
It's really difficult to describe just how thrillingly these little speakers reproduce the sense that you are sitting in that theater, the performers arrayed in front of you on a stage. Yes, James Taylor's voice does sound miked, but far from being offensive, is actually pretty stunning, because it sounds the way a concert public address system would sound if you were sitting somewhere out in the audience. Furthermore, on one gorgeous performance, "My Traveling Star," Taylor is accompanied by a large choral group, singing harmonies. The sense, again, of the members of the chorus standing mid-stage, with "air" and proper acoustic space surrounding them, is... well, it's "thrilling..." I just can't think of a better way to describe it.
I know this sounds rather trite, but the speakers make me want to take out all my old digital and final sources and "rediscover" them.
So far, in any case, I am a very happy camper.
I will continue to log my impressions as I have more time to listen. |
Uh-oh, having some Web browser problems here. Sorry for the multiple versions of the post. |
Yay, I'm not whacked (nuts), or if I am I'm not alone!
I'm thrilled that you are thrilled so far. |
Thanks, Mapman. I'm not a beer drinker, really, but this "virtual Bud's" for you, since you were the one who convinced me to try these puppies to begin with. |
Glad to see there is another happy camper. There needs to be a resource for Ohm owners and perspective owners to hang out and discuss these great speakers! |
I really think your Unico hybrid amp is practically a perfect match to bring out the best in the Ohms, so I think you will be very well set.
The Ohms are one of the few low cost speaks I know that are capable of transcending their class in regards to performance due to the unique and innovative design.
The large surface area applied with the Walsh style drivers compared to traditional drivers of comparable size, along with the high phase coherency and wide dispersion pattern nature, are the main reasons these are almost in a class of their own for the size and asking price IMHO. |
Rebbe,
Any trace of too much "sound bouncing off the walls" and adversely affecting imaging?
I know imaging accuracy was one of the areas that you had concerns about with the Ohms early on in your search.
This is one of the areas that the newer series 3 drivers really shine in comparison with the older Ohm Walsh CLS designs from the 80's that many are most often familiar with. |
Rebbi, I'm really glad that the Ohms are working out for you so far!
Bass - for a quasi-full range driver, all Ohms go deep, but not at the expense of definition, or naturalness. John at Ohm says that people think subs are built into his speakers...
The depth and presence isn't only available on great recordings! When I was in the demo period with mine, I played some live recordings of my band, recorded very simply, with one mic. I found firstly, the Ohms didn't color the sound frequency-wise, but also, you got a real sense of the venue too! Pretty cool... |
How much power are you all using with your Ohms? I was thinking of looking for ~ 200 Watts for some headroom for my 100s but I'm not sure what brands or pieces to look at. Of course I'm open to less power but the idea was tempting :). If I could get it in a relatively small package or at least in one unit (like an integrated) that would be great.... Any ideas on what I should look for? |
Mapman,
Re: your question about imaging. I'm not sure... I'm still getting used to the presentation and I'm still not certain that I have them placed optimally... I wish I had someone to help me with this!
My room is basically a 15 x 12 foot rectangle with an 8 foot ceiling. The floors are hardwood, but there are "puffy" shades on all the windows, and there a large day bed with soft linens and pillows in the listening position on the wall opposite the speakers.
The one oddity of the room is that there's a rectangular "appendage" to the left of the left speaker. The result is that the right speaker is three feet from the side wall to the right, but the left speaker is probably five feet from the left wall, which is in the little "side pocket" of the room.
Imaging, in terms of stage depth, is wonderful. Some recordings so far definitely "obliterate the back wall." I heard percussion instruments on Buena Vista Social Club today that sounded many feet back behind the rear wall. And on the second track, you definitely heard a group of "embodied" singers singing the harmonies of the chorus.
So I guess that imaging is quite solid... but I'm still not convinced that I've got the placement quite optimized. |
I am running the micros with a Unison Unico, which is an 80 watt solid state / tube hybrid integrated amp. it seems to drive them effortlessly. |
Micros + Cyrus 8vs2 (70 watts, conservative) |
100s with ~120w/ch Musical Fidelity A3CR.
It mostly doubles power into 4 and 2 ohms which helps deliver a balanced sound top to bottom with the Ohms at low to moderate volume.
It replaced a 360w/ch Carver m4.0t which did not at all nearly double into 4 and 2 ohms and produced a less balanced sound with less authority in the bass at low to moderate volumes. It went plenty loud though and sounded balanced at higher volumes but the low end was not as complete at lower volumes. |
Note that the large Ohm 5's in my system are much harder to drive properly as I described above than the much smaller 100s. Micros should be easier still.
I likely will someday go to a higher power amp that also doubles into 4 and 2 ohms for the larger Ohm 5's, most likely a 250w/ch or 500 w/ch Class D amp like a Bel Canto, Rowland or something similar.
The A3CR has been an over achiever with the 5's so far though. I was not sure the A3CR would be powerful enough for the 5's when I got it but it sounds great and goes pretty loud and clear, so I've held off for now on something more powerful.
The A3CR leaves nothing to want with 100s.
I also recently introduced a tube DAC into my system and this has been a revelation with the Ohms. If I upgrade my pre-amp, would strongly consider a tube pre-amp there. |
Thanks for the feedback guys! |
Slight thread digression, but Mapman, adding a tube DAC is an interesting idea. I was recently looking at the Paradisea +. Right now, I have a modified LiteAudio DAC AM and it's been working nicely, but I'm sure can be improved upon.
What do you notice most about the tube DAC and the Ohms? I always thought Ohms wouldn't need tubes, because I thought of tube gear as taming many of today's overly bright speakers... which the Ohms are not! |
Zkzpb8:
The Ohms are very neutral so they let the sound of the DAC come through. Each DAC will sound different.
I'm using the Paradisea with both my Denon player/recorder source and a Roku Soundbridge for accessing a music server and internet radio. Compared to the DACs built in each device, the Paradisea in general offers the benefits commonly attributed to tubes versus solid state mainly improved 3-D imaging and microdynamics combined with a more analog like smoothness with less digital edginess. It makes my digital sources sound more like my analog phono source.
The exact sound is a function largely of the tube used (and RCA phono IC used to connect the DAC to the pre.
Rolling different tubes defintely has major effect on the resulting sound. The stock GE tube is what I am using. THe used unit I purchased also came with a second vintage Tung Sol tube (see recent posting I made to my system for more info on the differences). There are other tubes that can be tried as well.
I'm using an Average Audioquest Toslink IC from Roku to DAC and a similar coax IC from CD to DAC. I do not notice any significant difference in sound between the 2.
Overall, the Ohms are more open, smoother, and dynamic overall with the Paradisea and digital sources. I would not go back to SS for this. They sound better now with digital sources than ever before.
Though I like the effect the tube DAC has on digital sources, I also do not feel a need for tubes with my phono rig either at this point. If I changed my pre-amp, I might just stick with the single tube in the DAC and continue with a good SS pre-amp that just lets the sources shine through naturally.
Tubes power amps in general are not a good match for Ohms I believe because of power demands and difficult loads to drive. But a single tube further upstream near the source can really make some magical things happen. |
Another DAC I can recommend is the VDA-2 from Channel Islands. I use one with the VAC-1 Power supply and find it excellent. It is solid state but has a very smooth but detailed sound. I've auditioned a few other DACs (Benchmark DAC1, Stello, etc.) but always went back to this one. Also, the customer service is outstanding too. |
Can someone here give me an idea of the cost of the new Ohm's. I have not heard these Walsh speakers since the F about 30 years ago. What are the price differences for micros, 5's etc. Thanks Rich |
Microwalsh Talls go for about 1K and they go up from there. Check out the link below for pricing:
http://www.ohmspeakers.com/styles_walsh.cfm |
Thanks Mapman - I'll have to give it a try sometime. I think I have a great combo amp/wise, so a tube DAC sounds like a nice tweak... |
Well, I made a decision yesterday and put the Totem Arro's up on eBay! Guess I'm an Ohm fanboy now, officially. ;-) |
rebbi...glad you like 'em. the ohm walsh micro is truly in a class of its own. |
|
The Ohm website is the best source for pricing info as mentioned.
I believe the range for new speaks with standard cabinet finishes is ~ 1000 for micros for smaller rooms to about $6000 for 5's that can be adjusted for either large, medium or small room sizes.
Ohm occasionally offers newer Walsh CLS drivers in refurbed cabinets at a discount. I think you have to call them and ask to see if something is available there.
They also often take trade in of older Ohm speakers with cabinets that can be refurbished even if the drivers are not in good working order. This can bring the price down further. |
Rebbe,
I know you never sounded totally thrilled with the Totem Arros.
I don't know of anything conventional that can definitively beat or out-class them in that price range other than the Ohms though.
Glad it all worked out! |
Mapman,
Thanks. I was playing around with the speakers earlier today and tried moving them further apart (as close as I can get in my room to the equilateral triangle) and six inches or so closer to the rear wall.
KABOOM!
Suddenly, the soundstage locked in and got huge... the room is full of sound now, and the imaging is precise. Thrilling, just thrilling! :-D |
"the room is full of sound now, and the imaging is precise'"
Bingo!
Very cool! |
The ones to truly thank are Lincoln Walsh for coming up with the basic principle that the Ohms realize back in the 1960s and John Strohbeen for delivering cost effective, high performance, robust and well supported implementations of Walsh's design over the years. |
Are the 100's a big step up from the Micro's? |
Petewhitley,
Good question... I'm wondering the same thing. |
ohm has the same character thoughout the line...a lost art for most brands...in a bigger room, the 100 would have more bass, provided the amp will control them. |
Jaybo is correct. I've had the micro's and moved to the 100's when I had a room change. The signature is the same just more bass and they play a bit louder from what John has told me (I don't really crank my tunes). |
I've confirmed with my system that 100s and Walsh 5s sound mostly the same in a small to moderate sized room.
If you do not have bass deficiencies, there is no reason to go larger in a room of a particular size.
Larger rooms will benefit in bass and overall performance weight from larger Ohm Walsh models.
In my largest room, ~ 20'X 30' and L shaped, the difference from 100s to Walsh 5 is marginal as I've described.
The Walsh 5's could go in much larger rooms than any of mine. |
The more I play the Ohm's the more I'm impressed with the seamlessness of the sound... must be the large frequency range covered by that Walsh driver. And the midrange... wow! Female voices sound stunning.
I will also say with pleasure that there's not a hint of glare or harshness here... these speakers sound like music, not like "hi-fi."
I called John at Ohm today and thanked him, and told him how delighted I am with the MWT's. He asked me how I thought they compared with the Arro, and I described the increased bass authority and texture, the sense of air and space around the instruments, the depth of the soundstage (the back wall "disappearing") and so on.
He said that the MWT's take between 60 and 100 hours to fully break in, and that they'll keep sounding better. He said that bass extension and midrange sweetness will improve, while the highs should remain fairly well the same.
He also said that the biggest mistake people make with the Ohm's is pulling them too far off the back wall. He was really appreciative of my call. |
I am happy that OP is enjoying his Ohm Micro Walshes. But why put Totems on eBay rather than A'gon? :)
As someone interested in comparing various brands, and it was good to hear that they bested Totems, I would be most interested to know if anybody here has been able to compare them with other faves talked about here: Tyler, Salk, Daedalus, Proac, GMA, Zu etc? It would be interesting to determine if the Ohms are simply good at their asking price or could they actually play in the same league as these others? |
Sounds like a shootout is in order! |
I've been researching the Ohms and speakers in general for a few months now. I've listened to the Sunfire CRM-2's, maggie 1.6's, various Martin Logans and other brands for a while. The Ohm's intrigue me more than any other design I've come across.
This thread has been GREAT. I actually log-on twice a day to check for updates, and so far I really like what I'm reading.
I'm about a year away from making any sort of purchase, but I appreciate all of the input you all are giving one another. Good stuff! It is making me a bit impatient to make a purchase though... |
Aktchi,
Frankly, I was hoping I'd get a little more on eBay than on A'gon. I paid over $1400, with tax, for the pair, including both speaker grilles (which are an extra cost item for the Totem's) and little metal "saucers" for the spikes to sit in to protect hardwood floors. With Arro's going for what looks like an average of $800 here on A'gon, I'll take a bath on those speakers when I sell them, and they've got less than 10 hours of time on them. So yes, they're up on eBay, and I'm hoping that the fact that they include the speakers, grilles and free shipping to the continental US brings in a good price. :-) If that fails, I'll go with A'gon next. ;-) |
