Odyssey "Khartago" Stereo Extreme" amp compared to Schitt's "Vidar" amp

I would like to follow up to this old, ridiculous thread and add to @mcreyn courteous post here and correct the grossly inaccurate comment made earlier by someone saying the Schiit Vidar weighs 13 lbs when in fact, even at it's near half-size stature, it weighs 22 lbs.

Back to the original poster’s questions.  Depending on your room size, the vidar may or may not be powerful enough for the Magnepan .7.  For my 5000cu foot room and 3.5s, it was not enough, but good sounding.  For many Maggie users it is, including Schiit which runs a set of 1.7s off a Vidar at the Schiiter. 

About the engineering d**k measuring contest.  Mike Moffat is a digital guy, just like he has always done going back to Theta.  Jason does the analog designs, just as he used to when he designed amps and preamps for Sumo.  The Vidar was designed by Jason.   

This thread is about a comparison between the Odyssey Khartago SE and the Schiit Vidar. Nothing else. Not about Odyssey's different model monoblocks and the internals. That is 100 percent irrelevant. Yet you just keep parroting and harping about it. I own the exact Khartago the op asks about. That is relevant. Not your opinion of what he's better off getting when you have made no such comparisons with the equipment you state. But by all means, parrot away....

"Anyone is free to purchase gear from Odyssey, but I think it is fair to give balanced opinions with both positive and negative EXPERIENCE for all potential audiophiles to look over before they make a purchase." That type of discourse in an absolute necessity, for the survival of the species. I’ve never owned an Odyssey amp. While considering a move from tubes to SS, to run my new Magnepans(then), I had a pair of Klaus’ amps, in the home, briefly. Ended up buying more efficient speakers and staying with tubes, after almost three decades of planars.   I thought Klaus pleasant and knowledgeable, but then- we never had an issue, either.

You’ve still got to have the last say, which doesn’t make it right sunshine, because it was your insistence with your lack of tech knowledge skills that turned this into a **** fight thread not helping the OP or Odyssey one iota.

This will be the third time, that I’ve mentioned my regrets, for having repeated what two articles mentioned, regarding the Stratus' output specs(NOT CURRENT CONSUMPTION), without having substantiated the claims(whether correct or not). AND- I was probably reading spec sheets, before you were in diapers, though I’m not the least bit concerned, with anyone’s opinion of my credentials. Especially; not one with the limited comprehension, that you’ve exhibited, regarding the above. Once again: anyone out there, that has actually compared/listened to the two amplifiers, that had the OP’s interest? It would be refreshing, to have a valid(rather than vapid) opinion!

I have had Odyssey equipment too, as stated earlier. Yes I had a Stratos, Tempest and Candela and not the Khartago. I had hum and spurious noise issues over many many months. When I spoke to Klaus...(when I could get ahold of him) he was at first courteous, but as time went on he was very condescending. As I returned equipment to him, he took months to repair items, and returned them to me, only to find they were not fixed. I spent thousands of dollars of what I considered later pure audio junk and bought from a guy who really did not take the time to fix the various problems. In fact on his forum on audiocircle.com anyone with a simple search one can find all the problems I had mentioned as experienced by other buyers. I would have thought after all these years since then he would treat his customers better (I know he has adoring fans) but I just got a message from a customer a month back who had the very same issues with a new piece and he stated Klaus DID NOT want to give him a full refund on new gear. He had to fight to get his refund. Anyone is free to purchase gear from Odyssey, but I think it is fair to give balanced opinions with both positive and negative experience for all potential audiophiles to look over before they make a purchase.

Why would I not like your answer George as long as it is honest

Which it always has been and I’ve never put down the Stereo amps that Odyssey makes. Just claims ****** make about them to get the gullible to buy them, anyone would think they are "shilling" for Odyssey????
Only issues I have are the bridged monos that are never advertised as being bridged, also Class-A claims made by so called "experts" that think an amps "current consumption" is the amount of Class-A bias an amp has.
Just calling it as it is Jack, nothing added, nothing taken away and nothing embellished.
And if you wish to get get on the BS merry-go round, I’ll call it too, as there’s way too much of it on these pages.

Why would I not like your answer George as long as it is honest and not full of your usual hype.  The Stratos has been in constant production since the mid 90's and is the original amp.  The Khartago came about five years later and again has been in constant production up to now so it does matter how long ago the amps were brought in. The amps have changed somewhat over the years but the names have remained.  As to me being a fan I have owned four different Odyssey amps over the years including a Stratos, Stratos Monos, a Khartago and a Kismet.  All amps have been trouble free for me and there second owners.  The Kismet I still own.  Your arguments about the amps in question in this thread are along the same lines as your ones in the Class D amp threads and the Benchmark amps.  Mostly your opinion stated as loudly and often as you can with just enough hints of technical knowledge mixed in to sound believable but in the end just opinions. In this thread like the others you don't or never have owned the products in question and many times have never seen them relying strictly on the internet for the basis of your arguments.  I on the other hand only talk about products I have actually owned or had in my house in my systems. 

Just out of curiosity as to your supposed "friend" who had the Odyssey amps in for evaluation in Australia what specific amps were those and more importantly what year exactly was that?

Looks like your a bit of an Odyssey fan Jack,  you may not like my answer.
  https://forum.audiogon.com/search/index?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=Odyssey&username=jackd
 
He imported the samples which look like they are still current models, a few years ago, two stereo's and two pairs monoblocks, I believe Khartago and Stratos.
We, 8 of us (6 potential customers), listened over a few hours to the Stereo's and thought well of them both, even into a hard to drive pair of Infinity Epsilon. Then we listened to their bridged monoblock versions.
  
We thought to a "reasonable level" the stereo's were far better, if you wanted to party the bridged mono's were the way to go.
Then we opened them up to see what the story was, and I pointed out the mono's were just bridged stereo's.
  
The two stereo's sold that day, the monos he sold off later. needless to say he never became an importer.    
Cheers George  

Whatever, you’ve already shown your knowledge with the BS statements you presented on Class-A that you have no technical experience whatsoever on at all, which explains why your a "fuser" as well someone pointed out below.

Replacing the fuses with HI-FI Tuning or Synergistic Research will make a difference too(if you haven’t already).

To those here: I have nothing against anyone’s equipment. I just take issue with the sort that make unsubstantiated claims, like, "....you’d get better sound...", never having heard, or compared, the pertinent components. Again: class of operation isn’t all that’s involved, as regards final sound quality. Grind on, George! 

George

Just out of curiosity as to your supposed "friend" who had the Odyssey amps in for evaluation in Australia what specific amps were those and more importantly what year exactly was that?

FYI, the Nuforce STA 200 is not a class D amp ( it is A/B, using a Goldmund circuit design ), as I believe it to be the only non class D amp they make. George, I do not think that was me, as I spoke about passive, vertical biamping with a pair of STA 200s,.....enough with the arguing already. Music touches our hearts, our souls, and it is for enjoyment.

Anyone interested in returning to the subject of this thread(WITHOUT the spin)

You started and repeated the propaganda "spin", with the false claims of 35w Class-A on the Odyssey (lucky to be 5w) your not doing Odyssey any favours.

To those here, I have nothing against Odyssey they have always had good affordable reliable "low bias" Class-A/B "stereo" amps, in the same vein as Bryston's are. The "bridged" monoblocks are in my view are a big step backwards for the extra cost, Class-D even a cheaper option.

sunnyjim OP what I said said to you, you’d get better sound, bi-amping with Class-A mids and highs using a "real" Class-A 20w Schiit Aegir, and maybe a Vidar on the bass, or even as mrdecibel said an even cheaper Class-D on the bass.
Cheers George

Anyone interested in returning to the subject of this thread(WITHOUT the spin)? ie: ’Odyssey "Khartago" Stereo Extreme" amp compared to Schitt’s "Vidar" amp’. NOT amps strapped/bridged mono or a chassis with extra holes, but- a stereo amp, with a plethora of upgrades, from it’s base model. I never intimated the amp of interest to the OP, had 35W of Class A, either. That was PURPORTEDLY the base model, 150W, Stratus, which(again) I never should have mentioned, without personal confirmation. Has anyone actually compared(LISTENED TO) the pieces, mentioned by the OP? Nothing against Schitt's gear here, either. Happy listening!

@georgehifi has a bias against Odyssey. It’s obvious and he’s made this clear in more than a few threads.

Beside the BS calls by a couple of members here trying to con the gullible, that they are 35w Class-A per channel.

The one thing I've always stated is that was not made totally clear to potential purchasers in their advertising, is that the far more expensive Monoblock are just the Stereo version bridged.
And if you have any knowledge of amplifier electronic design, you'll know that all you gain by bridging a stereo amp is extra watts! Every other parameter that makes the same amp in stereo a good amp, takes quite a large hit when it's bridged.
  
And if you need proof once again here are the internals of the stereo v monoblock, if you have a modicum of EE knowledge you'll see that it's just a stereo amp bridged into mono, your actually getting a lesser sound quality amp in monoblock but with more watts than in stereo.

And yes as I mentioned the chassis are the same (no biggie) just with blanked holes for the other input and speaker terminals for stereo.

 

The stereo amp - https://ibb.co/VBbVcFJ

 

The monoblock amp - https://ibb.co/L1wmrP7

Cheers George

Under the amplifier specification section on the Odyssey site, it states that the amplifiers ( all of them ), indicate : Class A / AB. Who am I to question the validity of the claim. It might be a sliding bias circuit, because what George is saying, I believe, is that if it was a true, common class A circuit, the idle current, with no signal, would be higher than 35 watts, also indicated in the specification section. A $ 200. Technics receiver I see on the Bay, claims class A output, and it seems to be a flimsy chassis. Having owned, and being familiar with, many " true " class A amplifiers, I will say, they all had extremely large power supplies, huge amounts of heat sink area ( some with a fan ), and ran extremely warm, to very hot. And, the electrical draw, at idle, was always, at least 200 plus watts, in most cases much more. I have heard Odyssey amplifiers, and find them to be musical. Enjoy ! MrD.

@georgehifi has a bias against Odyssey. It’s obvious and he’s made this clear in more than a few threads. 

Wether you believe in someone who says they are poorly built (but never heard one) is up to you @sunnyjim

Many love their Odyssey gear. That said, Schiit makes decent stuff for the money. 

I don’t feel you can go really wrong either way.

"Your are incorrect and delusional"? Nah! Just repeated something I shouldn’t have. "How’s $1,000.00 for a preamp, another $1,000.00 for a (150Wpc) amp (the first 35 watts are pure class A)...The sound was excellent with outstanding ability to go way down into the nether regions." That’s a verbatim quote, from the second(Audiophile Voice) of the two articles, regarding the Stratus amp’s output, to which I’ve briefly alluded, twice now. AND- like I said: had no business quoting those two personally unsubstantiated articles(whether correct, or not).

Alon Wolf also appears to use a QSC GX3 pro power amp and so do I (cost around 200 bucks new), although mine is occasionally pressed into service for live concert monitor duties. Not sure what Alon uses his for (saw a pic of it from a Magico shop tour article), but my wife uses mine as a footstool under her home office desk (the amp lives in a small road case). Alon also uses "red book" CDs for demos, etc., so we have that in common also. Me and Alon...nearly the same person...

Your are incorrect and delusional
Read 35w idle draw at the bottom of the specs
http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-stratos-mono.html
And as I explained, no chance in the world 35w Class-A per channel from a 150w a/b amps with those heatsinks, never ever!! 

@georgehifi - Thinking about it; I’ve been challenging you, regarding personal experience and assumptions. The specs that I quoted, were from one article, then repeated in another, neither author of with whom I’ve had any personal contact/experience. The figures were not obtained on my test bench, or- in my presence. In that confabulation(brainfart, basically); I got the, "ASS" part of, "assumptions", to a tee. My bad and my last word(MMMM, crow, yummy)!

OP: Odyssey= 20 year warranty(which covers the second owner) and 30 day satisfaction guarantee. Hard to go wrong!  Happy listening!

Those figures were the result of bench-testing, in one of Odyssey’s many favorable reviews, NOT the idle currents of the amps. Perhaps ’The Audiophile Voice’, that mentioned the Stratus’ figures in their review as well, read something incorrectly(not that I give them that much credence)? Had you looked at the reference I provided earlier; that’s Rolf’s philosophy(more and better heatsinking for increased Class A capabilities). YES; I know you don’t care(about anything but your own opinions). I’ll leave the ubiquitous last word, to you(seems you need the validation).

This is a laugh, rodman99999 you need to look at things better, and try to understand them. I just had a look at the site.

35W IS THE POWER CONSUMPTION. NOT!!!! THE CLASS-A PER CHANNEL !!!
The Stratos at 150w  would be lucky to have 2w of Class-A  per channel with 35w idle power consumption


Joan Armatrading, I listened the the track just yesterday "Save Me"

35w Class-A per channel out of the 150w Stratus

You have been conned, "if" you were told this.
You need to go to EE school, "35w of Class-A per channel on a 150w amp"!!!!, Means it would have massive heat sinks and be the size of a coffee table to dissipate the amount of heat, or have serious fan forced cooling, what a crock of ****

Alon Wolf uses Odyssey

I don’t care!

LMAO

Me too ’D" talk about feeding BS to the gullible, just like it’s never advertised you get just bridged stereo amps when you buy the "premium" Monoblocks.
Cheers George

No sense of humor?

LMAO

I spent some time at Moffat's house and he is a brilliant designer, however, when he discovered me at his house he did have me arrested.

So, no. You've never made a direct equipment comparison.

Given you’ve ignored my second question, I’ll assume, the answer is, "No!", to both. The design parameters of Odyssey amps(base models) provide for slightly over 23% of their first wattage, to be Class A. (ie: 35 W, out of the Stratus’ 150 W / 23 W, of the Khartago’s 100 W) Some may have heard; Alon Wolf uses Odyssey, to voice his highly regarded Magico speakers. Seems a pretty solid reference, but- that’s just my opinion. Happy listening!

I'm guessing you can't read, I already answered that by saying
"I’m just going with more Class-A of the two for the mids and highs only, and that’s the Schiit Aegir’s has 20watts! of Class-A"

George, by ignoring the question put forth to you a second time, I'm guessing you never made the equipment comparison.

And we know Mike Moffat is no fool in Electronic Engineering design, I’d back him over Klaus any day

No! I believe you "think" I believe he is.

so credit should be given to Jason, as well as Mike.

Yes agreed, but we all know who is the front man of the two, with the highest profile and accolades. He made Theta Audio one of the best in hiend you could get.
Cheers George

My understanding from my readings, is that Jason Stoddard ( the other half of Schiit ) had as much to do with all of the amplifiers designed by Schiit, so credit should be given to Jason, as well as Mike.

I asked a couple questions, that you left unanswered. Did you directly compare the Odyssey Khartago Extreme, with the Schitt combo, or- are you making assumptions? To expand slightly, on the second: have you any personal contact or experience, with ANY of the above EEs(Bunge or Moffat, in particular), by which to judge their relative knowledge/capabilities? Yeah, you said, " And we know Mike Moffat is no fool in Electronic Engineering design, I’d back him over Klaus any day.", which implies you assume Klaus IS one. Further, regarding Class A operation; read the portion of this article, dealing with heatsinks and Rolf’s design goals. https://www.stereophile.com/content/rolf-gemein-heart-matter Far as a chassis with, "blanked off" holes: Klaus has to keep his costs down somehow, to offer the values he does. Having one chassis, covering a couple variations in amp design, is one excellent method. 

So- assumptions, now- to include Klaus(as being a fool, regarding EE design).

I believe you are for now trying to put words into my mouth by twisting what I said. I said Mike Moffat is no fool, (not Klaus) I'd back him over Klaus.
  
And yes a friend of mine was to become the Australian agent for Odyssey, got all the range samples, but when lifted the lid I showed him that the monoblocks were just the normal stereo amps bridged with blanked off input and speaker connections on the back, he and others that were on hand were not amused, then sold the samples he had, and didn't re-order again. 

So- assumptions, now- to include Klaus(as being a fool, regarding EE design). Have you personally met him? I have(and been to his house, more than once). It’s been my experience; there’s much more to the sound of an amplifier, than just the operational mode. btw: Ever heard of a Germanic audio manufacturer, called, "Symphonic Line"? It was their EEs, that designed the circuitry, Odyssey employs. Please: name their less than competent circuit designers(ie: Rolf Gemein, perhaps?).      http://www.symphonic-line.de/eng/

are you making assumptions?

Have you against the Aegir, I’m just going with more Class-A of the two for the mids and highs, and that’s the Schiit Aegir’s 20watts! And we know Mike Moffat is no fool in Electronic Engineering design, I'd back him over Klaus any day.

Cheers George

I have owned an Odyssey Stratos amp, Tempest and Candela preamp and had problems with the gear and very bad service. That was my experience and would not deal with them again. Also got a message from another Audiogon fella who had terrible problems with a deal very recently with Odyssey. I have a Schiit Audio Bifrost Uber DAC and it was really great sounding for the price. I would stay with Schiit or keep looking at other manufacturers.

Hey, George-  Have you actually compared the Odyssey Khartago Extreme to the Schitt combo, or- are you making assumptions?

his price points are incorrect.

Over here in Oz there on the money, even "if" a bit more over there, the Schitt combo would still sound better than the equivalent Odyssey or higher for that matter. As you’ll have real 20w class-A running the mids and tops.
The best A bias an Odyssey could manage would be 5-7w with their rail voltage and heatsink, and monoblocks are just bridged stereo amps

Cheers George

Not saying that George's idea Isn't a dandy, just pointing out (a bit too bluntly now that I read it) his price points are incorrect.

To embrace what georgehifi was saying, you can get a pair of Nuforce STA 200’s at $499 each and, passively, vertically biamp the 7s. Most people are clueless to a configuration like this, but it is quite amazing. I am using the exact set up on a 3rd system, with a pair of older Signet towers I own since new, and it portrays excellence in sq. BTW, the Triton 7s, with the newer midbass drivers, are an excellent for the money speaker. BTW, the Nuforce STA 200 is very high gain, and likely will not work with the CJ preamp. My advice....get rid of the CJ and go passive ! Detail galore ! Ask georgehifi about that. YMMV. Enjoy ! MrD.

Wrong. Schiit gear $799 and $699, equalling $1498.

Odyssey Khartago is $999. Go with a new suped up Odyssey SE and STILL be under $1500. Or buy that used Khartago se (the way I'd go) for $999 and get an unbeatable deal in sound for price....

sunnyjim OP
speakers are Golden Ear Technology model 7’s which might possibly be replaced by Magneplanar .7 speakers, or something better

If you get speakers that are bi-amp’able, I would go these two amps horizontally bi-amped, still cheaper than one Odyssey.
A Schiit Vidar on the bass of both, and the new Class-A Schiit Aegir, for the mids and highs. This should be a killer amp setup for bi-amp’able speakers.
http://www.av2day.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/biamp1.jpg

Cheers George