Buy a multi-channel AV receiver. Denon, Marantz, Sony, Yamaha. Best Buy has them. They all will provide fine sound for surround and stereo listening!
Noob, need help please
Hi there,
I have a pair of Klipsch RP-8000F floorstanding speakers.
I am a little unclear about what I need to complete my setup.
I want to use these as home theatre speakers when watching off Netflix or Satellite TV, and also as music speakers when playing off Spotify through the TV.
Do I need a pre-amp and an amp, or just an amp? What does a receiver do?
Do I need a separate DAC too or an amp with built in DAC?
I am a newbie to all of this so willing to learn, please forgive my lack of knowledge.
My budget is max 1k but then I don’t really know what I need to bring out the best in these speakers. When watching movies I like a little warmth but also like some detail. When listening to music I like a lot of bass.
I need channels to add in a sub (I have Klipsch R-12SW) and a center speaker (yet to buy but probably will get the Klipsch RP-504C) at a later stage.
If you need more information please let me know.
Many thanks in advance!
I have a pair of Klipsch RP-8000F floorstanding speakers.
I am a little unclear about what I need to complete my setup.
I want to use these as home theatre speakers when watching off Netflix or Satellite TV, and also as music speakers when playing off Spotify through the TV.
Do I need a pre-amp and an amp, or just an amp? What does a receiver do?
Do I need a separate DAC too or an amp with built in DAC?
I am a newbie to all of this so willing to learn, please forgive my lack of knowledge.
My budget is max 1k but then I don’t really know what I need to bring out the best in these speakers. When watching movies I like a little warmth but also like some detail. When listening to music I like a lot of bass.
I need channels to add in a sub (I have Klipsch R-12SW) and a center speaker (yet to buy but probably will get the Klipsch RP-504C) at a later stage.
If you need more information please let me know.
Many thanks in advance!
46 responses Add your response
Thanks. Having just an AV receiver is enough to power these speakers and the sub? I’ve heard Denon, Marantz, Onkyo are good brands. Can you suggest a few models as I wouldn’t know what to look for? Center speaker doesn’t add much then, is that the general opinion here? If so then I’d rather take that money and spend it on the AV receiver to get a better one. Are there any drawbacks of having a setup using AV receiver over preamp/DAC and amp? |
One person's opinion that a center channel doesn't add much is not a consensus. A center channel is not a must to get the system up and going, but if you want to maximize what you have, you should at some point get one that matches your mains. The Klipsch model you mention should work well with your mains. By all means, get as good of a receiver as you can at this point, even if it means delaying center channel purchase. Do not rule out a center channel speaker as a purchase because one person said it is not worthwhile. I have set up with and without (using phantom center), and it was definitely better WITH the center channel. Just MHO. I have been out of home theater for a while, so I am not up on the capabilities of the newer receivers and what is good for that price. |
For maximum enjoyment for HT, I think a center channel speaker is a must but not to get you up and running as mentioned. Any of the midlevel AVRs from the major brands will be a good start and will the brains/engine in your system. My suggestion would be to join https://community.klipsch.com/ and ask this same question in the "Home Theater" section. Bill |
A receiver has a radio tuner, a preamplifier for input processing, and a amplifier to boost signal strength for the speakers. An integrated amplifier lacks the tuner. Then you have separate preamplifiers/processors and amplifiers. In some home settings a 2-channel system can prove to work very well for both audio and video. If audio was the priority I would look into a 2-channel integrated amplifier with sub output. The center channel is often not necessary when using a well setup high quality 2 channel system. I am under the impression that video is a primary goal, maybe beyond audio. If that is the case I believe that if going beyond a 2 channel for home theater I agree that the center channel is important to bring out the dialog in movies. Therefore I would look into the purchase of a used late model 5-channel receiver. Start out with you L&R and sub speakers. See how that works for you. Then add the center if needed for video. Consider the rear speakers thereafter. The fewer speakers needed the higher quality of sound can be purchased at any budget. I believe that in most multi-use environments (living rooms) a 3-channel, one with L&R¢er speakers do well. A sub is nice for video. If one has a dedicated room then that provides other opportunities. Hope this helps. |
Home theater advice only really pertains if you are truly setting up a home theater with a lot of seating. In other words hardly anyone in the sweet spot. That's the real reason for all the channels. Because without the center channel people sitting way off center will hear the dialog coming from whichever speaker is closest instead of from the screen in the middle. Also all the effects coming from left or right, they will only sound right from the sweet spot, so everyone else needs the surround speakers to try and even things out. It never works. No matter how many channels or how they are processed or how wonderful the speakers or how perfectly placed still no matter what it only ever sounds really good in the sweet spot. All you can possibly do by adding all the channels is degrade and debase whatever quality was there to begin with. Because that is the inevitable result of running it through anything multichannel. I know. I tried. Been there. Done that. Satellites. Full range surrounds. All kinds of A/V receivers, and processors, and separates. Absolute total waste of time. And money. Which according to the OP, $1k budget, you can afford to waste very little. But hey, don't take my word for it. Seriously. Do not take my word for it. Go and listen. Go find the very best A/V receiver you can possibly afford. Then ask to compare it side by side with any integrated amp they happen to have in the store. ANY. If it takes you more than a nanosecond to realize the AV is crap then by all means buy it. Its what you deserve. I mean that literally and not as an insult. No one should pay for performance they can't hear. Go and listen. |
Also make sure you check on that amp or receiver that it will handle that ohm load of your speaker. I for one was running a pioneer vsx 84 using magnepans which are four ohm then I found out that the pioneer only does 6 and 8. So now I'm in the process of replacing with an amp that will handle the 4 ohm load and Ill get a preamp and sell off the vsx84 which is a shame because I really like it as a receiver |
You might want to check pricing for reconditioned (and some new) at accessories4less. And, of course, check Audiogon...might find a steal on amn AV receiver. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9i4c0-anthem-mrx-700-receivers Bargain price one https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9if67-marantz-sr5009-7-2-channel-home-theater-receiver-sr-5009-... |
I agree that you should go with fronts, plus a center minimum for HT I have ( going to put it up for sale one day) The Emotiva UMC 200 AV pre amp that I used for two months while I was waiting for the XMC-1 to be released. It's been in my closet forever! There is a few for sale on the internet. Home Theater Review gave it 5 stars across the board, especially for the money But you would have to add a 5 channel amp Emotiva has the 500 A for around $500 so for both that would keep you under $1,000 Happy hunting. : ) Specifications for the UMC 200 Video Inputs and Outputs: (4) HDMI 1.4 compliant inputs (all with 3D and CEC support) (1) HDMI 1.4 compliant output (with ARC support) Audio Inputs: (4) stereo unbalanced analog audio inputs (1) set of 7.1 channel unbalanced direct audio inputs (2) SPDIF coaxial digital audio inputs (2) Toslink (optical) digital audio inputs (1) Bluetooth audio input (requires optional Emotiva Bluetooth dongle) (1) FM Antenna input; 75 ohms coax (F-connector) (1) AM antenna input (spring terminals) (1) internal AM/FM tuner Audio Outputs: (1) set of 7.1 channel unbalanced audio main outputs (1) balanced subwoofer output (same as main sub output) (1) stereo unbalanced analog mix audio output (2) stereo pairs of unbalanced analog audio zone outputs (Zone 2, Zone 3) Other Inputs and Outputs: (1) IR remote control signal input (1) IR remote control signal output (2) trigger outputs (programmable) (1) USB data input (reserved for firmware updates) Size: 17” W x 14” D x 3-1/4” H Weight: 10 pounds |
I have posted my question in Home Theatre and had a few suggestions on an AV receiver, however it was mentioned by millercarbon that for better quality I should go the preamp and amp route. Thanks jrwaudio for the recommendations. Does that preamp have an integrated DAC? Can anyone else recommend some preamp and amp models that fit within my budget? If you tell me that I need to spend slightly more than that’s okay. It’s not a hard set budget. I don’t know the price ranges for different types of amps. For now I will leave the center and rears and just focus on the towers and sub which I already have. By the way, I’m in the U.K. and where I live the only shop I know doesn’t have that much shop floor, it’s all online now. So it’s very difficult for me to go and listen and compare. I know sound is all personal preference but at the same time you guys are experts in this field so I’m relying on your guidance. |
if you want the best of both worlds some great audio companies make home theater amps like arcam , parasound or nad but pricier than 1k .usually stereo is better than 5.1 or whatever they do these days(19.8?) just for music.you can't go wrong with marantz or denon for home theater and 1k is great for those get the best you can within your budget. a center speaker is a must for 5.1 . |
All good comments above to get you thinking about what is a priority, and to start listening and pick what is best for your budget. If going the Receiver route, I would make sure that it has pre-outs, then in the upgrade path you could add and amp for two channel listening, amp/s for other channels and then replace the receiver with a pre-amp. |
Quality is definitely my main priority. If I go the preamp and amp route instead of the AV receiver route, is it possible to have a setup which will allow me to add in a center and rears in the future? Apologies for my lack of understanding. stereo means 2 channel right? Which means that a 2 channel amp will only allow me to add my towers and not my sub? What is an integrated amp? Any downsides? rocknss your approach to the setup sounds interesting. Can you please explain more about this? I’m not well educated in all this but learning slowly, please have patience. |
To answer your question from above, an integrated amp has no tuner for AM and FM but integrates a preamplifier and an amplifier into one unit. Somethng to seriously consider. So many people have gotten into and out of home theater that I think it would be crazy not to take the option initially to look for a working home theater receiver or integrated by a top-notch brand at a thrift store. They’re going for nothing. That way for practically no expense you’ll be able to find out what you like and don’t like. I know that where I live Goodwill allows a seven-day no questions return policy. You can Google the models on the phone while you’re looking at them and see what they cost initially. It will give you some sense of relative quality. The most common speakers to find there are center channels so I would keep my eyes open for a Klipsch that may be compatible with the ones you have. The two pieces pieces are very likely to cost you far less than $100. Don’t buy the very first one you see but look around. As well as the brands mentioned I would look for Pioneer ELITE. What can you lose? It’s just a place to start. Most importantly you’ll learn a lot in the process. |
Yes, can get a separate pre/multi-channel processor, but then need a multi-channel amp. But, for a very nice set-up like that you could easily exceed your $1,000 budget. There are some good ‘higher end’ companies that make these kind of products. The newer ones may also have streaming integrated within, and an integrated DAC. But, as a starting point, as mentioned above, I think your best solution starting out may be a higher end AV receiver.I was in the same boat years ago, purchased a higher end Yamaha AV receiver (before realizing I was going to get serious about music again), and some may frown on this here, still use it as my pre-amp; in a way. It has 2 channel pre outs for a separate amplifier, so now my front main speakers are being supplied power directly through a much nicer power amp for dedicated stereo listening. I also added a separate and much better DAC (Than in my receiver and other components) that supplies direct input into my receiver and ultimately thru to my 2 channel amp, and both my CD player and streaming ( actually simply a little wireless ‘connector’) box runs through the DAC. This has made my CD/blue ray player just a transport when playing dedicated 2 channel stereo when I’m critical listening, same with streaming, mainly thru Tidal via my iPad, or via my music files on a exterior hard drive connected to my wireless router. I also have purchased a dedicated phono stage instead of using the built-in phono stage in the receiver when playing vinyl, which I am doing more and more lately. Basically, in the end, I’ve turned my receiver into an RCA stereo ‘pass-thru’ for all my other components that does sound better than the receiver. As a last touch, I added a very neat (but not cheap) Ifi tube buffer/pre between my receiver and my 2 channel amp to warm things up and add some great options sound-wise to dedicated 2 channel listening, and to make up for a lack of a good dedicated preamp which does add a lot to a 2 channel set-up. My goal, as I went along, was to eliminate all and any 2 channel listening via HDMI for a better analog experience when listening to music. So, a good AV receiver can become a ‘base’ you can add to as your ears want, need, or require, for 2 channel listening, but also work as your home theater component as I also use mine, (as I do not have a separate and dedicated stereo listening room). I now have a very nice 5.1 home theater set-up for watching TV/ movies, but with a little ‘switching’ via my AV receiver app, can turn it into a very nice 2-channel system when critically listening to music, which I do daily. And you can add to it, or not, which is why if you go with the AV receiver route, start with a good one. |
Here is a good write up explaining all of the inputs/outputs on an AV Receiver (All of these options won't be available on all receivers, but they will have speaker outputs). https://www.themasterswitch.com/av-receiver-setup-explained Pre-Amp would not have the speaker connections, but could possibly have all of the others. Read up and see what additional questions you may have. As far as 2-Channel audio or Home Theater, keep in mind that to really enjoy a HT you are going to need to invest into a decent Video display as well. But it is best to determine the road you want to take and start down that path, buying and replacing equipment just ends up throwing more money at it down the road. |
@laher, if you opt for a receiver that falls within the desired parameters being discussed, that's great. The only thing I'd advise to get with it would be a second remote. Doubtlessly it will likely have one....most of the 'major models' do... Keep the battery out of it, and toss it into a nearby drawer. The existing remote will likely get more use (and abuse) than anything else....and then there's the spilled drink, the dog, the 'misstep' in the dark, etc. Likely this may occur later, when a direct replacement is 'N/A'. These units are morphing almost as often as people change tires. Other than that...do what fills Your desires and intentions, your ears, your esthetics...first. ;) Paying too close of attention to 'Us' can make you crazy.*L* |
Thanks for all the advice. In the U.K. I’ve never seen audio equipment at thrift stores. I’ll keep an eye out next time I go past some but ours are mainly clothes. So it seems that if I get an integrated amp I will get better quality but will not be able to add a center speaker which seems crucial for movies as it brings out the best in the dialogue. But if I go the AV receiver route then I can establish everything but won’t get the best out of my speakers for top quality when listening to music. This is the summary I am taking from all the comments, is that correct? AV receiver definitely makes sense to get me going and to learn, and gives the most options. But as a couple people said, I don’t want to waste money by having to replace equipment. I’d rather get it right the first time. Is it not possible to go the integrated amp route and add a center speaker down the line? Can anyone tell me a couple high end AV receivers I can look into? And equally a couple of integrated amps (preferably with built in DAC)? Like i said before, if I need to stretch past 1k then I will. I just want to get the best out of the speakers and sub. |
You got some suggestions for high quality AV receivers, add Marantz. You really need to work with a British vendor.What your asking for otherwise is difficult. You either want a "entry level" High End system with an integrated amp etc, or an AVR for movies.. I don't think combining them is easy as I'm sure you gathered from the various responses. |
I believe one can purchase an integrated amplifier with home theater bypass. The integrated would drive the main speakers. Then one could purchase a modest audio video receiver to drive the center and surround speakers. The integrated would supply signal to the receiver via the HT output.This is how my system is setup, except instead of integrated I have Pre-Amp/Amp for two channel. The AV receiver drives center/surround speakers, and the L/R pre-outs feed my Pre-Amp. For HT pick a decent level on the pre and then use the AV receivers calibration. For home theater use, you would then use the AV Receivers volume control. |
Another option to used equipment is look for large discounts on last year model receivers. No pre-outs on this, just an indication on what savings can be had. https://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX2500/Denon-AVR-X2500H.html?omnews=14698183 |
Thanks mesch and rocknss! Wouldn’t this approach be more expensive though? Or are you saying that with a 1k-ish budget I can get AVR and an integrated? It’s been mentioned that for 1k I can get a high end AVR. What kind of integrated does 1k get? Also, would this approach be worth it if I only add a center and not rears? How does this setup differ from a pre/pro and amp? |
You can get a higher end AV receiver for less than $1,000 US on sale, or refurbished. My Yamaha was $900+/- retail, but found a refurbished one with warranty for about $425 US. I then found and bought a used respected dedicated 2 channel amp for about $385 (a great deal) which I use to run my fronts when listening to stereo (and also power the fronts when running in 5.1, which takes the load off the rears, center, and sub receiver amp). My AV receiver is actually capable of 7.2, but I don’t need that. Be careful of paying more for a receiver with bells and whistles you don’t need, and will only compromise its overall performance (which it already is). Thus, I spent about $800 for both an AV receiver and a well respected 2 channel amp that sounds much better than the receiver in 2 channel. In other words, you can spend less than $1,000 and get better 2 channel sound than any receiver is capable of alone for that budget, and still a have home theater setup where the overall sound is not as critical compared to listening to music in stereo. You simply must get an AV receiver with separate pre-outs available, and the lower end receivers do not have that capability. I run Vandersteen 2CE Sigs as my fronts, Vandersteen 1C’s as my rears, a nice ELAC center and a sub. The Vandersteen’s are not nearly as efficient as your Klipsch. My dedicated 2 channel 140 wpc amp drives the 2CE’s easily, and the receiver drives the others easily in HT mode. I don’t think your Klipsch need much power to drive vs my set-up. But power isn’t the most critical factor, sound quality is for me when listening to music, so I like the option of driving my fronts with a separate amp that satisfy the quality I want, and can upgrade that amp again if I desire. The sound quality of HT via the AV receiver isn’t as important to me, but it does sound pretty good. |
Since you only will be using the AV receiver for the center and surrounds you can purchase one at lower cost. Use most of the $1000 for the 2-channel integrated. Look for a used 5.1 receiver. You will need the remote with the receiver. I use a AV receiver to augment TV/movie watching in my living room. Only use the L, R, and center outputs. Don,t feel the need for surrounds at all. You might find that the 2-channel integrated used in 2-channel mode for video suffices. |
Not sure why he would need an integrated if he can pre-out to a dedicated amp, using the AV receiver as the pre. That is what I do, and over time have attempted to take my Yamaha out of equation completely, only really using it as a pass-thru and ‘switcher’ between modes. The reviver will already have what an integrated provides. A separate amp will help obtain better sound in 2 channel. |
@millercarbon "Home theater advice only really pertains if you are truly setting up a home theater with a lot of seating. In other words hardly anyone in the sweet spot. That's the real reason for all the channels. Because without the center channel people sitting way off center will hear the dialog coming from whichever speaker is closest instead of from the screen in the middle. Also all the effects coming from left or right, they will only sound right from the sweet spot, so everyone else needs the surround speakers to try and even things out. It never works. No matter how many channels or how they are processed or how wonderful the speakers or how perfectly placed still no matter what it only ever sounds really good in the sweet spot. All you can possibly do by adding all the channels is degrade and debase whatever quality was there to begin with. Because that is the inevitable result of running it through anything multichannel. I know. I tried. Been there. Done that. Satellites. Full range surrounds. All kinds of A/V receivers, and processors, and separates. Absolute total waste of time. And money. Which according to the OP, $1k budget, you can afford to waste very little. But hey, don't take my word for it. Seriously. Do not take my word for it. Go and listen. Go find the very best A/V receiver you can possibly afford. Then ask to compare it side by side with any integrated amp they happen to have in the store. ANY. If it takes you more than a nanosecond to realize the AV is crap then by all means buy it. Its what you deserve. I mean that literally and not as an insult. No one should pay for performance they can't hear. Go and listen." I have to politely/respectfully/whole heartedly disagree... and no offense/insult taken. It is possible to set up a good "do it all" system. It may not compete with TOTL equipment using separates and monoblocks... but a properly set up HT system can perform very well. Even when not in a dedicated room. To me... it's amusing when company is over, watching a movie, and they start looking around, (even out the front windows), when they try to determine where a particular ambient sound came from, (bird chirping... horn honking... etc.) It's also enjoyable watching people relax and veg a little when getting into the 3D holographic soundstage when listening to music. Granted... I'm cheating a little by using 7 omnipolar speakers... but I would also debate/argue that a 7 channel system is harder to set up properly... especially when not using room correction software. |
The answers here are excellent. If you want really sweet sound you should take advantage of the sensitivity of the Klipsch speakers by powering them with a single ended triode amplifier, some of which you can buy in kit form for under $1000. The 45 triode is the best but puts out very little power which is not a problem with the Klipsch speakers. |
The center channel speaker carries the dialog. Movies are largely dialog. It's the most important speaker in the system. Just because it's possible to do without one doesn't mean it's a good idea. Whoever recommended that you get an amp and preamp didn't take your budget into consideration. For a first system on a budget a receiver is the way to go. You can get a good receiver and center channel for 1K, even in the UK. (I've found that equipment prices in the UK tend to be the same as in the US. They're just in pounds rather than dollars.<g>) I've tried most of the brands of reasonably priced HT receivers and favor Denon. You will want a receiver that supports ARC connection between the TV and the receiver, but most receivers nowadays have it. It makes playing TV sound on the receiver easier. Read the linked articles so you have some idea of what's going on. There's a lot to learn, but it's worth it. Best of luck! |
laher, The speakers you have, (and that series), are pretty efficient. You wouldn't need alot of power to drive them. However... to get decent dynamics you would probably want something rated at 100 watts minimum. The main question then would be... how many speakers total, do you plan on having by the time you build the system. 5? , 7?, 11? How many subs? Don't just buy what you think you need now. Plan for future expansion. Also... you need to pay close attention to the watts per channel specs. Back in "the day"... it used to be that a HTR rated at 100 wpc, delivered that to all channels. Nowadays... that 100 watt rating is only for 2 channels driven in "stereo" mode... and the rest may only be 50 watts or less when/if using surround sound... depending if its 5 or 7 channel. Ultimately... you may want to check out used equipment from a few years back... as long as you don't need Wi-Fi and a bunch if other "trinket" gimmick features. You may be able to find a solid performing used HTR and separate 5/7 channel amp for around/close your total $$$ amount budget. It all depends on what features you are looking for... and which ones are absolutes. Some that come to mind: Higher end Onkyo stuff, which includes Integra. Sony ES series Nad Yamaha Marantz B&K Adcom All of the above mentioned also make some pretty good multi channel amps too. As far as brand "house sound" ... it can vary, and depends on what you prefer. Most of the above metioned brands have a neutral to warm sound... with the B&K being the warmest of the bunch. |
Which is why my old B&K Amp has been my solid choice after trying a Nelson Pass Adcom (to ‘cold’ with my Yamaha AV receiver). The B&K, using my AV receiver as a pre/pass-thru, warmed everything up, sounds sweet as can be, and improved the soundstage by a lot. It was like ‘night and day’. Would I prefer a separate pre and dedicated 2-channel system? Absolutely, but my current set-up (eventually purchasing a separate DAC, phono stage, and the Ifi mini tube2 between the amp and receiver) really does sound pretty darn good when running In two channel mode. I can listen for hours without a hint of listening fatigue, and it sounds warm, detailed, and full with my 2CE Sigs. And I still have the option to switch to HT where, for me, the quality of the sound isn’t as critical. In fact I don’t even over analyze it in HT, only my 2 channel sound. It’s amazing how much difference a good sounding separate amp can make to a mediocre AV receiver, and you can do all of it quite reasonably in cost. Not spending a fortune was important to me at this time, so think the compromise was well worth it vs the money spent. |