Newbie looking for amplifier advice

iFi Audio "Retro Stereo 50".Can't be touched for the $...

Freedriver
 Real nice lifestyle system but
I think this fellow is attempting to invest in a serious performance system.
The Ryan 610s in my opinion are an extraordinary well balanced loudspeaker with serious attention to crossover detail, unique proprietary driver designs, years of research invested and overall build quality makes them a true benchmark in their range by sounding great at very low volumes, Medium, right up to robust which is got to be heard to be appreciated.
 As for the Belles Aria
series of amps personally I have yet to hear anything
get near these units with their unique clarity, openness and invitation into the music. A superb pairing together and both Made in USA.
 Best JohnnyR

Specifically, the Parasound Halo catches my attention but am concerned about DAC longevity and have been hinted that Parasound isn't such a value for money as, say, Emotiva.

Hinted by who?

I can't think of higher value gear than what Parasound produces especially its new HALO integrated.  The Ryans have a sensitivity of 86db and the Parasound has more than twice the power output of the Belles.  More power is always a good thing especially with speakers having that low of a sensitivity rating.

Hinted by a local dealer of Parasound, KEF and Emotiva. He made this statement based on the quality of parts used inside taking into account the suggested MSRP.

Ryan R610 seems to be a speaker which is easier to drive than specs would suggest. My first listen was at a dealer who used a 38 Wpc Line Magnetic 216IA tube amp. We were able to get to 75 dB in a large room with the volume dial at 9'o clock. 

Emotiva is a toy compared to the Parasound integrated amp.  I use one 8 hours a day in my secondary system powering Golden Ear Triton Two speakers and it sounds wonderful.  I had an Emotiva Dac around 5 years ago and quickly sold that piece of junk.  It was so bright, it could rip your ears off.

Does anyone run Parasound with Ryan speakers?

Look at Marigo audio dots for the large window - they work wonders with the glass. Consider free audition of the Nuprime line of integrateds with DAC

(((I can't think)))
  I can see that but here you needed to listen first.

((( of higher value gear than what Parasound produces especially its new HALO integrated. The Ryans have a sensitivity of 86db and the Parasound has more than twice the power output of the Belles. More power is always a good thing especially with speakers having that low of a sensitivity rating.)))

Paraneer
Belles/Ryan works real well together.
 Sometimes there is more to music then just numbers.
 Now, wouldn't It have been cool if you actually experienced a Belles Aria before you dismiss it?

 Best
 JohnnyR 

Belles/Ryan works real well together.
Sometimes there is more to music then just numbers.
Now, wouldn’t It have been cool if you actually experienced a Belles Aria before you dismiss it?

Relax brother and read my post again. You post twice in this thread and both are attacks. I never dismissed the Belles. I just stated a fact - the Parasound has more than twice the power output. With speakers at 86db, this is something to be considered. And the iFi Retro Stereo is not a lifestyle system; its an integrated amp.

OK, we get it. You like Belles so we’ll mark you down as an owner of the Belles. Or you’re a dealer and if so, you may want to add a disclaimer and not sell by attacking the competition.  Now that is what's not cool!

One of JohnnyR's best attributes is that he knows so much about audio and knows what works well together.  I have heard him assemble systems for every pocketbook and I scratch my head every time as to how he can do this consistently.  I read the posts and  while some might feel that his posts had an attacking tone, I did not see it that way.  I looked at it as though unless you have heard the combinations, opinions are then just opinions without any backing.  Funny, I tell my wife that all the time.  Not to sound attacking in anyway, JR just knows the products and was providing what I would want, someone who knows the equipment and how they interact together to get the best sound.

Happy Listening.

paraneer

Relax brother and read my post again ... You post twice in this thread and both are attacks ...  you may want to add a disclaimer and not sell by attacking the competition

I don't see any "attack" in what Johnny wrote at all. Paraneer you must be a very, very sensitive person.

Now, wouldn't It have been cool if you actually experienced a Belles Aria before you dismiss it?

May want to read his quote again.  Its up above.

OK, how about condescending then about a product I never dismissed.  Nothing sensitive about me Cleeds.  I just believe in standing up for myself when someone claims I said or acted in a way that I never did.  Wouldn't anyone do this? 

Paraneer
Not an attack sorry you felt bad though
 your post implies as if you
 must of heard the Belles Aria by saying
((( I can't think of higher value gear)))))
((( Has more power Always etc)))
I try my best to deal with facts here.
  Always isn't always here but can offer you a kleenex after you listen.
 Best JohnnyR
Audio Connection

I never implied that I heard a Belles. Again, reread my post - I simply stated a fact between the power output of the Halo and Aria and you somehow assumed I was knocking the Belles.

I know you sell this amp but why so defensive about them?  Good luck with your dealership Johnny. You still don’t seem to get it.

Guys, I"ve heard that Belles and I'm very familiar with Parasound as well a lot of the integrateds in this range and the Belles is very special.  I wonder why folks worry so much about watt's.  They are a nice measurement, however current is also important when match speakers with amps.  Folks never seem to discuss that part of it. What about sound?  The place where the Belles will win out is in delivering the details and emotion.  It drives the Vandersteen Treo's extremely good in a medium size room and the Vandersteens are 84db sensitive or 86. Either way, it's in the Ryan ballpark.  

David Belles has been around the block as long as most in the industry, but he doesn't have the marketing budget that others like Parasound do.  I'm not dissing Parasound or any others, just saying that I personally have heard both and everyone I've listened with when comparing the two felt the Belles was much better sounding.  The reason I listened to the Parasound is because I was looking at them two years ago for myself and I listened recently when helping a friend put something together.  No I'm not a dealer and I don't have skin in the game.  

I will say that Johnny is as good an audio person as I've met in the industry.  I get around a lot and meet many of the dealers around the country, so I like to think I have an idea.  Again, not an attack, but it's easy to make a statement that something is the best value in it's price or it's the best you can get etc..., but when folks are talking about specific components in a thread I would think that you would have to hear both before saying that  

(your quote from above) "
I can't think of higher value gear than what Parasound produces especially its new HALO integrated."

The bottom line is that its' all personal, but there are plenty of amps that cost as much or even less than Parasound that I'd get over them as would many.  Just some really nice choices and using a good dealer helps you sift through what match best together.  Again, I didn't read Johnny's post as an attack, just making some points as am I.  

Johnny R would not attack anyone. He is trying to help you by being clear. He knows his stuff. He will not agrue with you either but he will give you some of the best advice, and the wise one listens. He is not trying to benefit out of this, just helping. Hopefully you can see that.

Thank you ctsooner for your experience. I am just a salaried guy trying to assemble a system which will last me for many years. I am not someone wants to upgrade to the latest $2k DAC every 2 years.

it is tempting to buy a DAC integrated, but DACtechnology moves too fast. With the Ryan and Belles, the cost is way more than I would have imagined. That is still excluding an Auralic Altair DAC/streamer and possibly new stands 

Only 30% of total system cost is going to speakers.

Andy, get in touch with Johnny as he can help guide you even if you aren't buying from him. It's just who he is and he knows your speakers and gear.  Honestly the new Rotel integrated amps are outstanding as are the affordable NAD gear.  I agree about not mixing digital with your amps unless you don't even want to upgrade and you are keeping your gear forever.  That's the true lifestyle product. Heck, I purchased a Linn Kiko system for my bedroom even though the sound was just ok, because it was small, looked good, easy to use and is networked for use with Tidal etc....  I personally look at all these integrateds at any price that do it all as lifestyle systems.  The bottom line is that they will never sound their best, regardless of cost, because they share power supplies and pollute the other functions within the case.  I own an integrated as I could finally afford an Ayre Twenty amp and that was my entry.  I love it, but the separates of what's inside still sound so much better.  That's the reality.  Add more things to the integrated and it's not going to be the top sq.  Just can't be.

I assume your total budget is 2500 for both amps and DAC?  If so, there are a multitude of ways to go.  You may end up with an Ayre Codex DAC (best sounding DAC under 4k for my personal opinion) for about 1700 or 1800 and then a good used integrated from a dealer like Johnny or someone else so you can get at least a 30 day return if it's not working properly.  I've found that's a good way to go when purchasing used gear as I personally have been burned twice on the boards getting used gear. 

I know many folks who run the mid to larger NAD and Rotel integrateds amps with great success in rooms larger than yours with speakers that aren't quite as efficient as your's. I used the 50W one with my main speakers for years until I started my upgrades. 

You have a lot of opinions on the boards, just like mine.  You should listen if you can, but if you can't find someone you think you can trust and PM them off the board or get in touch with them and see if you have a similar feel for things.  As you know way too many on the internet never even have heard half the gear they post about being so great (they read a lot of reviews and posts on gear).  Too many folks chasing their tails all the time in this hobby, but never happy or with a true plan and it ends up costing you sooooo much more in the long run and sometimes the short run too.  JMHO and many others will totally disagree with what I have posted I'm sure.

If I recall correctly, Johnny may even carry the Ryan speakers.  I know they are highly musical and have a sweet high end that isn't shrill. I've heard them in the past, but not your particular speaker.  Nice choice and I'm sure you will enjoy them.

I run the Ayre CODEX and second ctsooner's recommendation that you seriously consider it; even though it would eat up a good part of your budget, it is that good.  I also second his endorsement of John Rutan; he's probably the best in the biz.

Thanks for those who suggested going with Ayre Codex. I agree that a higher quality DAC with a budget (or even used) integrated is a good way to go. I noticed that the Codex is a fully balanced design, which is great.

However, I will need a streamer too. The Auralic Altair is a DAC+streamer for a cost similar to the Ayre Codex. Isn't that also a great product?

I will make it a point to visit John in person very soon

I cannot comment on the Auralic.  It might be a great product but the Codex's filters (no pre ringing and minimal post ringing), output stage (Diamond output stage), zero feedback, and massive power supply give it incredible drive and clarity.  Can you find a streamer that has a USB audio out?  Then you can demo a bunch of DACs and figure out what you love.  

John will give you honest advice.  He has steered me away from buying stuff from him when he doesn't see the value or the he doesn't think the synergy is right.  

That would be the Auralic Aries Mini at around $500. 

I wouldn't run the Aurelic over a Codex.  Night and day sound wise. I have heard the Altair a bunch as two of the dealers I frequent run them. One has Ayre and we have done side by sides and not one person has chosen the Altair.  Go get a cheap streamer. I know a few are being worked on that will be very inexpensive, but not sure when they will come to market.  I'll ask someone I know who owns a digital review site and see what he recommends for the least expensive streamer to go with the Codex.  

I wouldn't run the Aurelic over a Codex.  Night and day sound wise. I have heard the Altair a bunch as two of the dealers I frequent run them. One has Ayre and we have done side by sides and not one person has chosen the Altair.  Go get a cheap streamer. I know a few are being worked on that will be very inexpensive, but not sure when they will come to market.  I'll ask someone I know who owns a digital review site and see what he recommends for the least expensive streamer to go with the Codex.  

Thanks ctsooner, JohnnyR and cedargrover. I thought of running Aries Mini into Codex via USB, but I can wait for your suggestion 

The Aries Mini is fine for streaming.  Johnny may have some thing else for inexpensive and great sounding streaming. 

Andy, email me at ctsooner@alumni.ou.edu as I don't see a PM option for you.  Let's chat off line as I have reached out to a few to see what they recommend for a streamer to mate with Codex.Pete

I think the OP's concern over DAC obsolescence is valid. Also, I have heard the Belles Aria. So good it is in my letter to Santa. The only other integrated I've heard (admittedly not a huge sample) that I like as well is the Prima Lona Dialog, and that's only 48 watts and can drive almost anything, if you're into tubes. Unfortunately it's over the OP's budget. They make a Prologue for under $2,000. Will your dealer not loan you the Belles for an audition or, at the very least, let you bring your Ryans in?

I have the Bluesound Node 2 for streaming and like it a lot. Also considered the Auralic mini as the other option but went with the Node 2. I'm not aware of any devices out there that only stream music and don't have a built in DAC. It has a coax out that I suppose can be used to connect to an external DAC.

Funny as I heard the Bluesound 2 today also and feel that one of those and the Codex is a nice sound.  It really sounded great and looked good.

Andysingh, It's been 4 months.
Have you made a decision? How did it turn out?
I am seriously considering the Belles! But then I couldn't give a crap about streaming. ;^)

The Belles is outstanding.  I've heard their integrated and separates. If I was in that price range, They'd be on the shortest of lists for me.  When played with the Vandersteen's it's a great combination for sure.  The timber, timing, depth of soundstage, detail etc... all come shining through.  They mate well with most speakers as they have a good amount of power and drive to them. Very neutral amps.  

I haven't made my purchase yet as I haven't been able to save the money.

I am am going to stick to streaming or audio CD because a lot of new vinyl is being pressed with digital masters. 

Unless one enjoys the ritual of playing a record, and the cover art, I don't personally see the point of vinyl. I can only afford digital for the foreseeable future 

Just focus is what I always tell folks.  It's much easier that way I feel.  I think I'd focus on getting the best DAC for now that you can afford as a Codex will last and sound better for longer than anything in it's price range.  Some feel others are the same, so go listen for yourself, but I was at Suncoast Audio today and we spoke about the Codex being a 5k DAC selling for 1800.  Mike runs a great shop, like Johnny R does and he sells Vandersteen, Magico and Rahdo (spelling), Focal and one or two other.  All very high end speakers and all higher end gear.  He has a wonderful ear and has the passion that Johnny has.  If I lived in FL, he's my guy, no doubt.  I personally don't like the Emotiva gear at all, but that's me.  I do love NAD or Rotel at the lower range (if you can't afford a Belles let's say).

That Ryan speaker is a really nice speaker, but I still like the Vandersteen's better for the same price.  There are so many ways to go, but I like how Johnny thinks and he will be able to take your real budget and not the one you hope to have (don't we all do this? lol) and help you put together a system you will and can love for a long time.  

Op, what amp did you end up buying? I picked up a pair of 610’s for fun after reading so many good things about them and I have to say they are impressive to say the least. 

awesome....VAndersteen and Ryans to me are some of the best value in speakers out there.  I have wondered what he ended up with.  Inquiring minds want to know, lol. 

I'm also wondering what amp he ended up with as I also just picked up a pair gently used..