@geoffkait
No, nothing new here. Folks have always accused the excited OP and others on a given thread of being on the payroll and promoting a product when they post their experiences. Nothing more than an excited sales type personality posting their experience and belief. Nothing else but the personality of the OP coming through here. No back room plan here. I was accused of the same thing here with TRL. Others have been accused of the same thing. Nothing new. It is simply a person excited about a product and wanting others to also enjoy it. Yes, I am also a sales type personality. Some just think, still, we are all lying. Well, I can’t help that mind set or life view filter.
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thecarpathian@clearthink- When did you change your name to perfectpathtech? Do you go around all the forums answering questions that are not addressed to you, and have zero to do with you, or do you just do it on this one?...You are wrong. Let me tell you how things work in my country- I live in a free market society. I, as a consumer in a free market society, have every right to ask questions...I also have the right to free speech...You have butted in before when I asked this question, so I will ask you- why is that question such a problem for you? Why is it causing you such great concern that you feel you must go as far as to speak for another forum member?
I understand completely typical American response free speech is for you and not for others I am subject to your questioning, evaluation and permission before remarking here as I choose you are I believe what is called "a little full of yourself" so climb down off of your free speech horse and let others speak as they desire too and leave me alone. |
@clearthink- When did you change your name to perfectpathtech? Do you go around all the forums answering questions that are not addressed to you, and have zero to do with you, or do you just do it on this one? You infer I have a problem that causes me great concern. That I am fearful and uncertain. That is utter nonsense. Let me tell you how things work in my country- I live in a free market society. I, as a consumer in a free market society, have every right to ask questions about a product sold in said free market society. I also have the right to free speech, in this case in the form of the written word. You have butted in before when I asked this question, so I will ask you- why is that question such a problem for you? Why is it causing you such great concern that you feel you must go as far as to speak for another forum member?
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grannyring
I don’t see proxies here. Just excited audiophiles sharing. Making it more than that may be the issue at hand here.
Really? Shirley you jest. Wake up and smell the ☕️
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Just say'in, look at the same modus operandi for SR Red Fuse, SR Black Fuse, SR Blue Fuse, Total Contact. Check who started each thread and how similar the wording for each is; "subliminal advertising"? or enthusiastic word of mouth for a company? Just say'in |
I don’t see proxies here. Just excited audiophiles sharing. Making it more than that may be the issue at hand here. |
grannyring
When customers like a product and talk about it on a public forum that is called a thread. This public sharing of experience is also a form of “word of mouth” marketing and impossible to separate. Some of you are asking to separate what pragmatically can never be separated. Word of mouth advertising will always and nessessarily be a consequence of sharing one experience with a product.
I suspect this one’s a little different, however, what with the use of proxies to initiate the marketing campaign and the use of Audiogon as base of operations. Perhaps this represents a paradigm shift in the way audio forums operate, probably is. Exhibit A - most other audio forum web sites are, what’s the word, moribund? Super over modulated expialidotious.
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When customers like a product and talk about it on a public forum that is called a thread. This public sharing of experience is also a form of “word of mouth” marketing and impossible to separate. Some of you are asking to separate what pragmatically can never be separated. Word of mouth advertising will always and nessessarily be a consequence of sharing one experience with a product. |
amg56
I thought redneck discrimination had been cast to the annuls of history. it would seem that some of you have not caught up with the modern times.
I am sorry if what I say disturbs some of you, and creates ripples in a cosy pond. And I am vilified by casting a stone into the water. What next? Am I to be crucified? Hung drawn and quartered? Expelled to the naughty room?
I thought free speech and guns are what Americans valued and held dear to your hearts. At least we banned the guns.
>>>Good grief! Could you be any more of a drama queen?
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Yond Cassius over there has a lean and hungry look. 😳 He thinks too much.
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@oregonpapa Excellent! I am glad you and Robert enjoyed your system. I am thoroughly enjoying mine with a light touch of classical. Oh, I don't frequent bars. I don't touch alcohol. It rots your brain and body. I'll stick with tea or water. I may be opinionated, but I believe in fair play. The following comes from this site's policy... exerpt "You agree never to post to or use Our Website or any Public Venue for any purpose that is illegal, fraudulent, infringes the rights of others, or includes advertising, promotional material, solicitation of business, chain letters, pyramid schemes, solicitation of wagering or gambling, spamming, or that is otherwise illegal or inappropriate." I would advise everyone to read it before slagging off at me. |
Damn! Who opened the gate?? *lol*
AMG ...
I think you complain too much. You are not a victim here. No one is telling you to leave the thread. Whats happening here is, you seem to be uncomfortable with the tone of this thread for what ever reason. It was suggested that if you're too uncomfortable, then perhaps you'd find the thread down the street to be more suitable and more tuned to your liking. Big difference between insisting that you leave the thread, and handing you a choice, no?
Its all good, so relax and enjoy the conversation at the bar.
And speaking of the bar, my friend Robert came over for a listening session tonight. In tow, was a bottle Tequila that was to die for. He found it at an estate sale today and it had been sitting in someone's bar for over 30 years. Two bucks for a bottle of some of the very best Tequila I've ever had.
The system was exemplary tonight. :-)
Frank |
@clearthink Great. Now I can’t sleep because I’m worried that the moderators are mad at me and I’m going to get moderated after only 4 posts |
Your opinion on something you never tried...
It can be heard in one or two messages and stop here if you are not convinced.
But, as you have not heard the product discussed, the coming back ad nauseum for repeating the same thing again and again is very suspect in my opinion.
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@clearthink Everyone is entitled to their opinion, good or bad, for or against, or 50/50 down the middle. It is supposed to be a free world I understand. I don't think an OP owns a thread. It is just a party starter... I am really not upset or angry. Just stating an opinion. |
Like @oregonpapa says..."This is my thread"..
Later on, he goes on to purport his stating of other threads.
Me thinks, he's wrong. He may have started this thread, it belongs to us all. This (may) be were he goes off track...who knows?
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thecarpathian"Why do you not offer any money back guarantee, not even partial, for your product?"
Many things in life are sold with no money back guarantee so I am not sure what you're problem is here if this causes you great concern it may be best for you to not further consider purchase of this product and simply move on rather than try to create some controversy here because you are fearful and uncertain as to the applicability of this product to you're system. |
amg56"I am not for or against the product. I could not care one way or another. But when a policy which disallows manufacturers to advertise in threads, excepting the market place, is blatantly being flouted, why should it not be called out.Now who is doing the squealing and calling me to task."If you are a member of the team of Moderators on this site then of course you are free to act on your solitary determination and delete this thread in it's entirety and for that matter disable my account for daring to challenge you. If you are not
a member of the team of Moderators on this site then you should consider that those who are the moderators have concluded this thread is proper and appropriate so you're whining and squealing is uncalled for and in vain and obviously you are against this product which is explains you're self righteous posturing.
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@perfectpathtech- I have a few questions regarding your product if you would be so kind as to take a few minutes to answer them...
What exactly is micro arcing as it pertains to audio?
What sets your product apart from other much less expensive ’graphene’ products?
How did you come to the conclusion of your claim that your product will never, ever degrade?
Why do you not offer any money back guarantee, not even partial, for your product? (no, you have not addressed this question anywhere)
I have no recourse but to ask you these questions on this forum because when I very politely and respectfully asked you a question on your Audiogon sales site, you repeatedly erased them and then went as far as to have me blocked. Final question- why did you do that instead of just answering these simple, straightforward questions?
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@t_ramey The CPT thread, when I joined it had been in damage control for some time after it was found that the company was in financial stress. There was no advertising because there were no products available. In fact the owner was much vilified over it that misdemeanours of his past from a decade ago were posted and he was viciously attacked by some via anonymous posters. You may be aware, or not, that threads advertising Tekton speakers were pulled very quickly. in fact there were 3 threads deleted on the same subject. And the CPT threads got pulled as well. If I were you, I advise you to compare apples with apples. TC is a commercial product that IS using this thread to spread the word. There are so many posts in the thread that the promotion is subliminal. As I said in my last post, I am all for discussion on all matters within the forum. But I take exception that some manufacturers/marketers are pulled and some are allowed to continue to advertise, hidden in the guise of product discussion. Why isn't there a separate web page for the product? Because, like Tupperware, the product relies on word of mouth, or in this case, post by post. As I also stated in my previous post, I am neither for against the product. There are only empirical statements available on its benefit so I remain uninterested. But to those posters telling me to go away a do something else, to wit Tommylion 'Advertisements are intrusive and generally not easy to avoid. This thread is NOT intrusive (Just the opposite, you actually have to navigate to it, and open it, in order to read it.), and is EASILY avoided by those who are offended by it in any way. The real problem is that some think it should not be allowed to exist, merely because it offends them." The only way a person finds out about a product, a review or comment is by reading each thread and post. If my appraisal polarises some readers because it offends the norm, need to a big drink of reality. I am entitled to my opinion as much as the rest of you. There will always be like posts and the questioners. Or is this only a likes club? I thought redneck discrimination had been cast to the annuls of history. it would seem that some of you have not caught up with the modern times. I am sorry if what I say disturbs some of you, and creates ripples in a cosy pond. And I am vilified by casting a stone into the water. What next? Am I to be crucified? Hung drawn and quartered? Expelled to the naughty room? I thought free speech and guns are what Americans valued and held dear to your hearts. At least we banned the guns. |
-amg56
I gotta ask, what’s different about this thread vs the various Core Power Tech threads that discussed the 1800 and other products from Mark Schifter with Mark using those threads to talk about his business and discuss shipping times (or lack thereof) ? |
Right on, Grannyring. If not interested in the topic of this thread, move on to something you like. Don't knock it till you've tried it.
I am enjoying the music even more at week four of Total Contact, an audio bargain.
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I am not for or against the product. I could not care one way or another. But when a policy which disallows manufacturers to advertise in threads, excepting the market place, is blatantly being flouted, why should it not be called out. Now who is doing the squealing and calling me to task. I have not bent the rules or crossed any line. You can hide behind any vociferous posts by members on the "what's the problem?" side, but there are posts that do not meet the policy. I do not want to spoil anyone parade, and I am not saying that posts referring to the positives of the use of the product should not be posted. In fact this is what the forum is about. I just find that 36 pages of "advertisement" for the commercial product a bit over the top and pushes the boundary of a forum policy. |
This is just another thread of owners/users that love a product and like to post on their experiences with it. There is always one initial excited owner that starts the thread and remains active. This has been done on countless threads since the inception of Agon. I know because I have been active all these years here.
It is actually one of the top purposes for these threads in the first place. This is a completely righteous thread! Real learning and discovery about products that are fabulous and improve our audio systems. Owners and users posting actual experiences. Goodness, this is the way it used to be here and it was a glorious thing. Threads like this are where we learned about products like the TRL Dude, Supratek, Lightspeed attenuator, and so many others. Amazing to me some want the perfect example of a helpful audio thread removed? Astounding actually.
The only portion of this thread that is not righteous is the bashing of the product from folks who have never even used it! This is a strange phenonima indeed and it seems to be growing in popularity. It is insidious and ruining this site slowly. While that happened some in the past (bashing), it was usually from folks with actual experience with the product in question. Sharing a negative experience after actually using a product properly is always welcomed and reasonable. |
I guess most of the threads I visit here on Audiogon would be considered a commercial or advertisement like High Fidelity, Core Power Technologies, Cerious Technologies...
I tried the Total Contact enhancer and I really like it, so much so I can’t go back and not have it applied to my cables and connectors. It’s probably my favorite add on I’ve done to my system except for maybe the High Fidelity mc-0.5’s but even then when the TC is applied to them they work hand in hand.
But it doesn’t work for everyone. A buddy of mine who I share a lot of similar likes and tastes when it comes to tweaks and certain products does not like what it does for his system. The only negative I’ve had with it is when I applied it to the SR Blue fuse on my Lampi Atlantic dac. Made everything sound thin and bright. After two days of it not changing much I went and wiped it off the fuse and everything warmed back up. |
^^^ Well put, tommylion ... :-)
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Advertisements are intrusive and generally not easy to avoid. This thread is NOT intrusive (Just the opposite, you actually have to navigate to it, and open it, in order to read it.), and is EASILY avoided by those who are offended by it in any way. The real problem is that some think it should not be allowed to exist, merely because it offends them.
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soundermn ... - "... with some fans touting the product excessively."
What seems excessive to one, doesn’t necessarily seem excessive to others. Could "excessive touting" be nothing more than enthusiasm for a product? Frank |
@t_ramey thanks for sharing the ad. Still, the ad points right back to this thread as proof of its effectiveness.
All well and good, and I am in no way disputing if the product works or not. Just saying this thread is a commercial with some fans touting the product excessively. If AGon moderators think it's okay, then so be it. I do think it is questionable if it should be allowed. But, I'm not a moderator and don't wish to decide which threads should stay or go, or which participants should stay or go.
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Over time, I’ve started numerous threads here on A’gon regarding products that I find beneficial to my audio system. Here’s a few:
Audio Research ... Ref 75 se.
Herbie’s ... tube dampeners.
SR ... HFT’s
SR ... Level III power cords.
SR ... Red, Black & Blue fuses.
Originlive ... Custom turntable belt.
Audio Technica ... OC9-Mk III & ART-9.
VonGaylord ... Speaker cables and interconnect cables.
In about half of these threads, I’ve been attacked, demeaned, called a "shill," a "paid employee," and on and on ...
Nothing wrong with legitimate, constructive criticism of course, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
Its the same sick individuals over and over who take delight in destroying anything that appears positive.
When an individual says that a product is a "scam," or "bunk," without ever trying it, well ... there is a hidden agenda of some type in the works. These are the ones I refer to as destroyers and arsonists.
I believe these are the same types who take delight in keying a brand new car in a parking lot .... just out of pure jealousy, envy and hate. Its a sickness that contributes to the breakdown of our civil society.
Since when is the businessman to be demeaned? Since when is it okay to make an attempt to drive an entrepreneur out of business for entertainment? There’s about four or five individuals who lurk on these threads and look for opportunities to be total jerks. I’ll call them out every time.
Frank
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Well I read the whole thread and it’s all about how wonderful this product is and maybe it is wonderful, I don’t know. But it reads like an advertisement or an info commercial and the guy is confirming orders and talking tracking numbers and if this isn’t pretty factual info than excuse me.
But it is a big advertisement for a product |
fleschler275 posts06-08-2018 4:13pmWhy is it that so many GON forums are for the purpose of conversation concerning various audio products? Are they also in violation of the forum "code"? What purpose are the forums if one
cannot write about a product? @fleschler There are plenty of threads where people tout a particular product or service. And that is generally accepted. IMO, what’s different on this one is that this thread seems to be the only place the product is marketed. There isn’t a web store where you can buy it. You can’t get it at a dealer. It’s not on Amazon. So if the only way to get it is to email (PM) someone in this thread, then this is a commercial use of an AGon thread. That is why I gave props to amg56. I could certainly misunderstand. I read much of this thread, but not everything. There’s a lot of senseless drivel in here that’s way off topic, and I couldn’t stand to read 1700+ comments, too many of which are attacks on other posters. |
Why is it that so many GON forums are for the purpose of conversation concerning various audio products? Are they also in violation of the forum "code"? What purpose are the forums if one cannot write about a product? There are 1000s of forums concerning products, why is TC so different? I’m sure the same denigrators of this forum feel the same way concerning SR fuses, SR cables, SR duplexes, SR HFTs, etc. etc. No one is twisting one’s arm to agree or purchase SR products or anyone else’s products.
I am happy to read of real life experiences with products by owners of them. Unfortunately, audio systems and acoustic spaces do not respond similarly in one circumstance as in another which can often be attributed to synergistic effects between products (or lack thereof). My back-up EAR 890 amp works great on Legacy Signature IIIs and terrible on Legacy Focuses, attributable to the latter’s low impedance in the bass.
If it wasn’t for Frank, I would not have ventured into purchasing SR products, especially the duplexes, fuses and HFT system. |
Brian’s wife was kind enough to let me carry on with part of his legacy, the Tourmaline Gun. Too bad Quicksilver Gold and Liquid Resolution disappeared.
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soundermn ...
Thanks for stopping by the pub.
As long as you don’t start raising hell in the pub and try to burn it down like a few arsonists have in the past, you are welcome here. And no ... I am not a moderator, only the person who started the thread, and one who wants to keep it on track without personal attacks or attempts to destroy a fellow businessman who is trying to introduce a new product. For clarity, I humbly suggest that you start on page one and read the thread in its entirety with an open mind. Hopefully, you’ll gain some insight into what I’m talking about.
Frank. |
aalenik ...
Brian was a friend of mine as well ... and you are spot on in your assessment of him. Brian and I had a blast one year at CES trying to get some of the rooms to use a little of his X-treme. We were successful in only one display, that of a major manufacturer ... and it made a significant improvement.
Frank |
@oregonpapa It seems like you have appointed yourself as the moderator and now you are deciding who should be thrown out. I don't think that's how it works, bud. I've been lurking on this thread, and I read a lot of it. Now, I'm commenting, so does that mean I should be removed too, because I am a "drunk who staggers in from the pub down the street"?
+1 for @amg56 calling this out as a marketing thread. That IS what this is.oregonpapa OP2,217 posts06-08-2018 9:18amAMG ...
Sorry your nose is bent.
What you think of as "deceit," I, and others, see this thread as a sort of social club for those who are TC enthusiasts. Its kind of like a local pub where like-minded folks meet.
Every once in awhile, a drunk staggers in from the pub down the street and starts raising hell here. As they start to act up, or vomit on the floor, we just toss them out on their ear. Unfortunately, some don’t get the message and need further tossing.
You’re sort of a newcomer who staggered into the pub, and right away, you start telling the regulars and the barkeep how you don’t like the barmaid. Well, as I said, there are other pubs down the street with different barkeeps and different barmaids that you might find more to your liking. Go there if you’ll feel more comfortable. |
Geoff & Al - Thanks for mentioning Brian Kyle, who was a very close friend of mine. Brian was a great audiophile, a complete goofball, and a very, very good friend. The last (and best) X-treme A/C cable he built is still in my system. |
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oregonpapa OP
Who’s John Galt?
I don’t know (Shrugging)
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AMG ... Sorry your nose is bent. What you think of as "deceit," I, and others, see this thread as a sort of social club for those who are TC enthusiasts. Its kind of like a local pub where like-minded folks meet. Every once in awhile, a drunk staggers in from the pub down the street and starts raising hell here. As they start to act up, or vomit on the floor, we just toss them out on their ear. Unfortunately, some don’t get the message and need further tossing. You’re sort of a newcomer who staggered into the pub, and right away, you start telling the regulars and the barkeep how you don’t like the barmaid. Well, as I said, there are other pubs down the street with different barkeeps and different barmaids that you might find more to your liking. Go there if you’ll feel more comfortable. Obviously, in reading the entire 36 page thread, you’ve missed all of the discussions in this thread that have nothing to do with TC. Various music recommendations, for example. In the meantime guys ... If you like the Hammond B-3, here’s an excellent recording. Great playing. Especially good is the presence of the drum set ... its among the best in my collection. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Joey-DeFrancesco-All-or-Nothing-at-All-New-CD/361812530483?epid=54443031&am...Frank |
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Rules? Where we’re going we don’t need rules. We’re going back. Back to the...future!
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tlong1958"whoever is responsible for enforcing the rules is asleep at the wheel'
This is an unjustified, unwarranted and inappropriate attack against the team of Moderators who
manage, control and monitor this site they deserve your cooperation and respect you do not know what you are talking about and would be well adviced to get your facts in order before launching unfounded criticism against the group.
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Pretty obvious that this thread is being used to sell a product. Not sure how you could argue that this is not what’s happening. If there is a rule forbidding this practice, then whoever is responsible for enforcing the rules is asleep at the wheel |
amg56"@oregonpapa You and Tim have use this forum to fish for participants (or suckers) for the commercial product TC."
As Americans would say perhaps you should STFU because it is the team of Moderators who manage, control and monitor this site so it is not for you alone to evaluate, determine and act as you see fit against those who contribute here if you do not like this thread or find it has made meaningful contributions to the site you are free to leave but not free under the forum rules to continually attack those with who you have cultivated philosophical differences.
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I’ve already filed amg56’s comments under blah, blah, blah. |
amg56,
I don't believe you are a moderator here? Bottom line, if the moderators agreed with you, and others, that this thread was in violation of forum rules, they would have shut it down by now. They haven't, so...?
You can protest all you want, but, just like I have no control over what you post, you have to live with what the moderators decide.
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@oregonpapa You and Tim have use this forum to fish for participants (or suckers) for the commercial product TC. Do you agree or disagree that Total Contact sold by Tim Mrock is a commercial product? Simple question that the moderators of this site should take note of. You have been actively spruiking this product since 26 Dec 2017. It has used 36 pages of spruiking to say very little. Sales people, or reputable products do not take 36 pages of a forum that is inappropriate for a commercial product. Why has Tim Mrock not set up his own web page for his product and reviewers, instead of hiding behind an inappropriate forum to ADVERTISE and SELL his commercial product. This is not the appropriate place, according to Audiogon Policy (I can cite the policy if you want), to advertise, promote and sell a commercial product. Why are you so blatantly deceitful about your dealings on this thread. It is NOT yours, nor is it available to sell commercial goods. I believe in honesty. Why am I anal about this. Because it is deceitful behaviour. I hate deceit of any kind. That's me; And I will stand up for myself. |
