New speaker cables recommendations sought

I would look at the best Kubala Sosna cables used you can afford.

Yes, @cakyol can save you a boat load of money.

Or you can be happy with smooth sweet full sounding cables.

(Rain or not) :)  We all spend for what we appreciate.

@phillyb Agreed, and well-stated.  I’m happy with my gear and lately have been toying around with reflection points & speaker placement…the impact has been profound! By simply moving the speakers further apart, and closer to the side walls, I’ve discovered much, much better soundstage. The music simply fills the room, as if I’m in a cathedral. 
Thanks for chiming in.

I’ve used many cables up to 5K and what I can say from experience is how any of them would sound in your system is a crap shot, because any given type of power supply will react differently to any power cord or speaker cable as well as internets and the runs in feet, XLR or RCA. This is why a much cheaper but well-made cable in one’s system could sound better than the much more expensive cables. There is no doubt cables impact one’s system but how is the road bump, like modifications on gear you never know if you will like it until you put it back into your system. Cables matter but you might not have to spend as much money as you think, you are paying dearly for the bling more than the cable inside whereas a cable with less bling might look inferior but might sound as good if not better. A speaker cables should not cost as much as a piece of gear or a car. That is common sense in the end we are talking wire and connections. Better money would be better spent on room acoustics and investing in the room, and speaker's setup. 

@teh_chucksta  I am glad to hear you find your system so satisfying. A good place to be in. I agree that room treatmen is the next step. Makes a huge difference and can be made DIY.  Look up room treatment on this site. Much info herein.

SPEAKER CABLES …. From Alan Shaw (owner and designer of HARBETH)

” … So, the moral of the story is this: the most important factor of the loudspeaker cable that you should select is the amount of metal in the cable core.

More metal means lower resistance.

If the core is round (as most are) then the correlation is simple: the fatter the diameter of the metal core the better because the electrical resistance between amp and speaker will be lower.

Thin and really thin cores should be avoided regardless of how exotic the metal material is claimed as the lack of metal in the core conductor will increase resistance. That will reduce amplifier damping, effect the frequency response of the speaker and give unpredictable results that will vary from amp/speaker combination.

Do not be fooled by the diameter of the external plastic sheath: what matters is the metal content of the core. The more the better, without exception….”

MY TAKE: I upgraded from an all-NORDOST FREY array (that’s all of IC, Power, and Speaker ) to an all-CARDAS CLEAR / CLEAR REFERENCE  array.

the new loom presented an upgraded performance in presence, dynamics, and slam that was not subtle, in my system,

@mesch The Novas are warm, clean & full with lots of detail (the characteristics I wanted).
With the exception of my speakers, my system is budget-oriented so I can only imagine how they might sound with better gear (McIntosh tubes?) but yes, I am very pleased…so much so that I believe the best enhancements I can make -for the money- are with subwoofers & room treatment; I’m no longer interested in upgrading my gear. Maybe that’s the best testimony of all. Best.

p.s. these cables are a great match with the new “Moonage Daydream” soundtrack.

@teh_chucksta  I look forward to hearing more regarding your thoughts on the Nova cables. I have been considering them myself.

I would second @grannyring 's endorsement of the Duelund cables. 

I started off with Tellurium Q Ultra Black II feeding my ATC SCM40s.  Though some regard these cables as a touch warmer than neutral, I was finding the overall sound a little hard and bright.  ATCs are not noted for being laid-back, plus my room has many reflective surfaces.

On the basis of this blog, I plumped for the Dual DCA12GA, 2 metres unterminated.  I have the ends of the cable stripped and threaded through the amp's terminals plus the 3 sets of binding posts on my ATCs.  This is quite a cost saving on both plugs and jumpers.

The sound is wonderful, and at 60 hours so far, is only getting better.  Tbh, at first, the mid-range was a little shouty, but has now settled.  I would say its strengths lie not necessarily in subduing the high-end, but in emphasising the musicality of the mid-range.  When I swapped back the TQ, I did hear slightly better dynamics and detail, but overall it felt cold and analytical.

 

[Digression] Interestingly, I experimented with Roon's DSP recently and created EQ graphs using a UMIK microphone and REW.  As far as this setup could determine, there was no material difference in the analysis of the Duelund and the TQ.  Yet, to the ear, the difference is very clear.  This is perhaps an anecdotal insight into the frequent battles between those who sit in the "measurement" camp and deny the subjectivity of those who claim differences, when it "can't make sense"  (ethernet and USB cabling being a very obvious case).

I have some these and would sell them cheap. 6 foot pair of VAN DAMME  4.0mm with Audio Quest spades on both ends

👍

Thank you for the update @teh_chucksta 

 

Enjoy!

Thank you to everyone who posted. It was a delightful mini-journey finding new cables. The Zavfinos OCC Cables I purchased are delightful, sounding better each day, in no small part to using the complimentary Tara Labs Cascade conditioning program I employ every time I leave my home. My wife, who is my second set of ears but not an audiophile, is also impressed, believing the sound to be deeper & richer (this also includes the addition of Acoustic Zen Tsunami PCs bought second-hand weeks earlier) while less harsh in the mids & highs. Cheers!

@gillsysb Costs about the same as the Zavfinos. I've only had limited break-in time but so far the sound I'm getting is quite pleasing. More to come...

I'm running 16 strand cables from GR Research. They replaced 12 gauge Analysis Plus cable. I am delighted with them. I would buy them again. Assemble them yourself, or purchase assembled, and terminated.

It would have been a test nice to burn in one of the cables and see if it is possible to AB a difference.

The Zavfino OCC Nova cables have arrived. They’re great looking, solid, well-made. Listened ~20 min to get a baseline. Now I’m using Tara Labs’ free burn-in broadcast which I’ll let it run ~15 hrs before I listen again.

Historically, I’ve connected in the following way:
Amp: connect the positive cable to the bottom and the negative to the top.
Speaker: both go to the bottom with jumpers to the top.

I’ll A/B your set up today. 

You can pick up a used set of Audience AU24 or AU24SE. When I had B&W N803 I had good results with AZ Hologram, Satori, Audience AU24 and Purist Aqueous. They were all bi-wire cables. If you’re using regular runs make sure to connect the speaker cables to the top set of binding posts. 

Both. I think more so by the way you cook it, but if specs on capacitance and inductance get somewhat extreme, then that will certainly correlate more to the observed sound.  However, for most cabling it is the way you “cook it” as you say. 

Well, I make cables all the time. All manner of cables. Some recipes sound warmer. Some sound more detailed. Some darker and some more brilliant. I can change the tone, openness, resolution and warmth by conductor material, connector brand, dielectric material, geometry and shielding or lack of it. You could not possibly be more wrong @cakyol. 

Does the observed sound correlate with capacitance and inductance of the cable? Or is it more like a cook it, taste it, and adjust the recipe?

$149/pair. Can’t beat that. I already ordered the Zavfino OCC Nova cables ($350) but if they don’t pan out…

Check out Signal Cables and talk to Frank. Straight shooter that builds a quality product at a very fair price and no magic wire voodoo.

@jimob @tennisdoc56  Thanks guys, I’ll put it on the list. 

The Wireworld Eclipse8 have great balance 6-9s Copper 
very low patented dielectric, silver over pure ofc Copper connectors ,most are cheap gold plated brass.

I had a spectral system for years so I was married to mit/spectral for decades.   Recently put together a 2 channel system and had no intentions on spending big bucks on speaker wire.
I auditioned a combination dac/integrated/ speaker combo that was musical magic and bought all the components.  Didn’t want to risk any part of the chain not keeping the sq.  It was wireworld 7 copper.  Way over my budget but buying the system allowed for discounts. Whether their is a better or less expensive solution I don’t know but they are here to stay

You should have led with that. Have a good one.

Teh_chuksta. I am trying to save you some money that is all. Unless you are operating in the megahertz frequencies or running wires longer than 100s of feet, any standard typical multi strand copper wire rated for the correct current, costing no more than a few bucks will do. 
Just do not tightly coil them, keep them straight and away from signal wires. 
The rest is just illusion and delusion.

The foock?  A lot of thoughtful, generous people in this thread. Sadly, not all. 

I see. You’re not interested in learning for yourself. I did more than read, I actually learned through hours and hours of actual experience.  The good news is you can still enjoy music with the cables you happen to use! Have fun.

None of it matters in audio frequencies. About 80% of what is written here is pure delusion.  
Again, read the article well.  It will enlighten the delusioned. 

Well, I make cables all the time. All manner of cables. Some recipes sound warmer. Some sound more detailed. Some darker and some more brilliant. I can change the tone, openness, resolution and warmth by conductor material, connector brand, dielectric material, geometry and shielding or lack of it. You could not possibly be more wrong @cakyol.

You should take the time to build, re-build and listen for yourself instead of speculating based on some notions.

Nobody gives a flying frack to what you say or link. You seem to be full of yourself.

There is no such thing as a "warm", "musical" wire. As for "atmospheric", I do not even understand what it means....listening under the rain perhaps ?

Let me correct myself. You can indeed get warm wires if you pump excessive current through a wire not rated for it :-)

You guys really should really read the following:
https://sound-au.com/articles/myths.html

Do not skip sections, read it in its entirety, I will give you an exam on it sometime in the future and I expect everyone to get a passing mark :-)

@henry53 That’s good to know bc this upgrade phase is burning a hole in my pocket!

@jahjahsound   The Zavfino OCC Nova cables ($350) I ordered should arrive soon. If they don’t please, I’ll be sure to try the van dammes since you’re the second person to recommend them. Also read reviews comparing them to more prominent cables which makes me believe you more. Thanks!

Worked part time a store some years ago.  With time on my hands I set up 4 identical CD players to the same system. Only difference the interconnects between the amp and CD players. No-one could tell the difference ( in sound quality) between $50 and $500 cable.

@teh_chucksta - I first heard of this very problem when I purchased my NAIM amp. Naim had this phenom documented on their web site

NAIM designed the low capacitance NACA5 cables (16.5 pf/meter) for their amps, just to avoid this issue with their amps, so your amp(s) would not have experienced this problem.

The total capacitance of a cable generally has to be very high i.e. probably in excess of 2000pf - but the actual value depends the design of the amp and the length of the cables.

In many high end systems the cables can be quite short (e.g. 4-5 ft) so they may never cause this problem.

Most cables are have "middle of the road" values of capacitance so they are not an issue, but with the increase of very complex geometries, higher capacitance values may become more common.

E.G. Another cable to be "wary of" is Kimber 12TC which has a capacitance of 494 pF / meter - but this may only present problems for longer cables exceeding 20-25ft long. But their BIFOCAL-XL has a parallel capacitance: 600 pF / meter. The specs for the Select Series have not been published.

Similarly, the Cardas Clear cables use large numbers insulated conductors which increases the capacitance to pretty high levels of 278 pf pf/ft (or approx 900pf/meter), which for a 10 ft cables is 2780pf

By comparison, my own DIY cables are very low at 30pf/meter, well under the high values of either Kimber or Cardas and many others and very well suited to most amps.

But again, I stress this MAY ONLY apply to "some" high current solid state designs when longer cables are used.

That’s a lot of "IF’s" - but IF you are not aware of this it can cost a lot of money in repairs simply because the speaker cables selected were not "the best match" for the amplifier.

Also, very few technicians are aware of this, so you could have the amp repaired - only to have it fail again when you connect it back into your system. Certainly the technician I spoke to, that repaired the amps for my friend was amazed when I told him about it.

Regards - Steve

@williewonka Great post, completely unfamiliar with that phenomenon. Been using the NACA5 for over 10 years - dunno why, random choice? - and I wonder if my amps  experienced any oscillation effects? Hopefully the new cables will sort that possibility out.

@audiowav I considered your recommendation but went another way…thanks though.

@drrsutliff Good info. I’ll listen to the new cables I just ordered as they burn in. Should be fun hearing the process. Thanks.

@thyname I appreciate you chiming in.  Optimist that I am, my search is over.

Zavfino Prima MKII. That’s what I have and I am very happy.

https://zavfinousa.com/collections/speaker-cables/products/prima-speaker-cable
About $600 for a 2.5 meter pair.

I used to own Cardas Clear Reflection a few years back. They were pretty good too, but I remember they were more expensive.

👍

@ghdprentice Cardas Golden Cross Speaker Cables (8.5 ft pair, banana-to-banana) just got listed on eBay, $1,389, used floor model. Starting bid @$919…but I went with the more affordable Zavfinos.