New or Old CD Player?

I do have an opinion on the Esoteric K-3X, since I did own one for awhile. My overall impression of its sound is very detailed and musical, but can be a bit clinical. The sound can be tailored with variable sample rates and digital filters. The disc drive was in No way like a cheap computer disc drive. It's function was solid and inspired confidence. When used as a drive, the analytical sound transferred to the DAC. When used as a DAC, and fed by my reference PS Audio DirectStream transport, the sound was fuller and more analog, very much like my reference Berkeley Alpha Reference 2 DAC. So, as a DAC, I found the Esoteric more musical than what it was used as a CD player or a transport. SACD reproduction was stellar. Very, very close to my reference T+A PDP 3000 HV.

When looking for a one-box CD player, I saw a used Esoteric K-3X at The Music Room, an on-line audio dealer. I think they listed it at $7500?? At this price, Is consider the K-3X a bargain.

@jafant ....when are you finally going to commit to a source and amp for your Thiels?  That way we will know you’re speaking from personal experience rather than simply being well read.  Kudos to your research and knowledge, but some skin in the game would be refreshing.  Best....

@imgoodwithtools CONGRATULATIONS on the ARC player!  I listened to one, and it certainly sounded like a serious contender.

Hope you love it, and it provides you with the joy we all hope for 

@twoleftears while I have no first hand experience with the TEAC / Esoteric transports, their reputation proceeds them.   More than "very good", many have labeled them class leading.  However, I will defer to @jafant and if he knows they're in-field performance has shown them less than exceptional, I believe him.

Incidentally, the Philips transports acted just about perfect in my experience.  I **may** have encountered one defective unit in a Consonance CD120 Balanced, but I apologize, as that recollection could be incorrect.  Otherwise, they have performed without issue for me.

Now...speaking of the Consonance CD120 Balanced, I no longer have any and didn't dig deep enough for pictures, so I cannot speak with absolute confidence in comparing the internal layout.  But this Hegel Mohican gives me a strange sense of deja vu.  Outside of the digital out connector and an extra line of printing where they included the Hegel name, the rear of the two machines look identical.

I wanted to simplify and streamline what I felt seemed like an overly broad and confusing lineup.  So along with the far stronger interest in non-oversampling DAC topology at that time, once Consonance switched the CD120 Balanced from the Philips to the Sony assembly, I then only featured the CD120 Linear.  I set the North American retail price at $995 for each, and felt both sounded better (though quite different from one another) than anything at that price point.

Though no ones likely interested, I keep a Consonance Reference 2.0 SACD player for myself.  I rescued a pile of 21 of them, and got at least 16 of the second generation units back on their feet.  I love the tube output and analog volume control that provide excellent sound without needing to use a preamplifier even if I sometimes do.  Its sonics get nosed out by the Reference 2.2 MKII CD player, though the SACD capability is a trump card for me.  And that Sony SACD part has so far (knock on wood) held up.  When this player dies, it owes me nothing 

@all  Does the distrust of the Hegel regarding their CD player extend to their well-regarded Intergrateds?  The H80 and H160?

Thank you

Thanks jafant! Here's my logic, since all players I've heard about I haven't heard. I'm buying blindly. 1. Marc Mickelson at The Audio Beat gave it a very favorable review. I trust Marc's judgement. 2. I own an AR Ref6 preamp. It sounds Great, especially paired with my D'Agostino S-250 amp. 3. I had an aftermarket tube arc and blow up my Ref6 about 6 mos. ago. ARC fixed it for Free. Free. Even though I bought it used, and I decided to try an aftermarket tube. 4. ARC has the reputation for offering complete service on obsolete components. And 5. Both the company and the unit have a strong enough reputation that if I don't Love it, resale should not be difficult.

Now here's the problem. You Know when it comes I'll have to hear what it sounds like in my Big Rig. Then, what If I Love it? Then I'm back in the market for a CD player. Lol

As above, Bryston, should have stock-piled those Philips L1210 CD drives.
Poor judgement from a company that has been around long enough to know better.

Nice choice! imgoodwithtools.

regarding ARC, I have auditioned , the CD5, CD7 and CD9.

Happy Listening!

twoleftears

TEAC/Esoteric can be hit-and-miss as well. There are rumors that the older spinners SA/DV series, no longer, have critical parts/drives?
Esoteric is not known fro their customer service either? At that level and price they should be in my opinion.

Happy Listening!

FWIW, I've decided to buy a lightly used Audio Research Reference CD8. I buy quite a bit of used equipment. If I don't love it, I can usually resell and not get bitten too badly. I do want to hear a Hegel Mohican. When I find one at a discount, I'll give it a spin.

There will always be unintended industry mistakes & exceptions.
I don’t buy a top cd player and contemplate those things.
My purpose was to discuss a new experience with Hegel Mohican
I don’t know first hand if other companies have attained similar level of improvement.with redbook.
I’ve been trying cd players since 1984 and regulary tuned out after a short time.
Being a musician guess I wasn’t satisfied with digital products.
I know when timing cues are accurate/drums+bass are authentic.
My only similar reaction was Linn Ikemi & briefly Sondek cd12.

@jafant  Well, the BCD-1 came out in 2008, and Bryston chose a Philips L1210 CD drive, a reasonable choice at the time I think.  They still to this day support all other parts of the '1, but the supply of drives has dried up--about a year ago.  @trelja Given Teac's connection with Esoteric, doesn't that drive carry a very good reputation?

At this level of cost & quality/ 
I assume the player is well thought out and don't worry much about potential replacement parts.

imgoodwithtools

Right On! Spin a disc or two. Relax.
Happy Listening!

twoleftears

Thanks! for sharing. Odd decision about the Bryston BCD-1? Good to read that they are back on track w/ the BCD-3 regarding transports/parts avail for repair/replacement.  Recently, I saw the Primare CD35. The previous CD32 used a Sanyo disc drive/transport that is readily avail. I wonder why those guys switched again?
Happy Listening!

@twoleftears sorry, I don't know much about Primare.  I believe you are right the TEAC transports.

I also believe history proves you find yourself in very good hands with  Bryston.  Even if the CD assembly has gone out of production, I can't see them leaving their customers out in the cold

@monkandmozart 

Yup!  They now make a 'music center' the Cantata - which plays CDs but also contains lots of other bells the OP does not want.

The Opus-21 is circa 2004

imgoodwithtools OP189 posts04-10-2018 2:55amGeorge, or anyone else: What do you know about a Naim CDS II with external power supply?

The Naim CDSII uses the PCM1702k still a great R2R Multibit dac not quite as good as the PCM1704K which was the king, before the far cheaper to produce Delta Sigma stuff came along which "hobbled" Redbook.

This is better, the CDXII, it uses the PCM1704K with the PMD200 same as what's in the Linn Sondek CD12. and the Naim CD555. with lesser peripherals around it (eg: power supplies, buffers, i/v stage, ect) 

Cheers George

How old is Resolution Audio Opus-21 
Are they still in business?

George, or anyone else: What do you know about a Naim CDS II with external power supply?

The Resolution Audio Opus-21 is very well regarded, and a couple are available here.  2 boxes though...

I have a Resolution Audio CD50, and it sounds absolutely delicious.

We ought to be on Broadway, Al. We’re hilarious! Posting this, using my smart phone. Lol
John

@imgoodwithtools Your last post made me smile...
So I posted this...using my computer.
Now I can relax.
Peace
Al

I will be 55 years old in September. I go to work. Half of my job is dealing with computers. Will not connect to internet. Over. And over again. Where is the Tech Support guy? Password. After password after Password. I can’t remember them all. When I get home, the Last thing I want to feel is that I’m at the discretion of a computer. I want to spin a disc. Large or small. Relax. Close my eyes. Relax.

I would think Hegel know what there doing+R&D put into this player.
I know 5K is alot but get what you pay for especially compared to 20K+ players.
We can list reasons & fears not to purchase but end of day it's because can't afford it.

@twoleftears the Sony transport makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Back when they manufactured them in Japan, Sony turned out the very best CD transports in the audio business.   The shift away from Japan production in the mid-2000s proved catastrophic.  Since then, I'd feel uncomfortable buying any machine that use them, let alone a $5000 player.  Ironically, at that same time, Philips, who had produced less than mediocre CD transports got their act together, and became the one you wanted.  Sanyo also makes a decent CD  transport today.

Personally, I'm more than a bit leery on spending real money on a CD player, the Achilles heel of an audio system.  Other than a good older machine, I prefer going for something with a more robust CD reader like a Sony 5400ES SACD player, Oppo, or the like, and if that didn't sound good enough, feed it into a DAC.  I find it silly that I can buy a Samsung or LG DVD writer at my local computer store for $14.99 any day of the week that offers night and day better reliability than the CD laser assemblies used in multi-kilobuck audiophile players

Yes Hegel Mohican!
End of digital or angular notes in playback
Rounded & natural decay,tempo & timbre.
Your mind wanders freely as you listen to music.
No jarring reminders that sound digital or hyped/
Hear inside the music,played by humans.

@trelja I just Google-imaged innards of Mohican, Sony and Sanyo CD mechanisms, and the Hegel looks exactly like the Sony, with that tell-tale grid/lattice pattern on top.  Hegel, on the Mohican homepage, states that it's Sanyo, but as you say it's hard to believe.  Ironic to see just today that @monkandmozart was so taken with it.

I'm going to purchase a Border Patrol Dac and use my CD Payer as a Transport.

EAR Yoshino Acute Classic   +1.  

Indeed, imgoodwithtools, you know precisely what you should do:  ARC Ref. CD8.   Lo and behold, there's a real nice, lightly used one on the block here at A'Gon right now, and you don't need to spend $5K.  Its offered by some member goes by the moniker, Whitecap.  Check it out.  

If you want an excellent analog player buy an OPPO 205 before they are gone and have the MOD RGHT modification done.
This player beats them all while giving you lots of additional features. I have one that was just modified and have never heard anything like it. Tubes with a superb DAC (ES9800) produce the best of both worlds on any CD. And the total price ($3800) is well within your budget.

The Vitus RCD is a wonderful sounding cdp. You can pick up a second hand one within your budget, if you can find one on the market.   Vitus CD players are the most analogue sounding digital sources I have heard. 

Is the Linn or the Naim more "analog" sounding?

Yes they’re both very analogue in their lower mid richness, without the bass getting thick/syrupy as tubes tend to do.
Good luck finding a the Naim 555 pairing under $10k though, also the Linn CD12MkIII, as there were not many of these, plenty MkI’s and II’s but it’s the III you want, if you can’t get the Naim pair.

https://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/207naim/index.html

This was the a review of only the MkI with PCM1702 not the better MkIII with PCM1704’s +PMD200 (same as the Naim).
https://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/86/index.html

Cheers George

-yohimie- 
Do you live in Colorado? Lol Too many blunts? Lol. I get you. The music over hardware. But, for the most part, well chosen, more money buys better sound reproduction. 

Hey George,
I have never had the opportunity to hear a Linn or a Naim. I had an Esoteric for awhile. I found it both amazingly good, and too analytic. Is the Linn or the Naim more "analog" sounding?
John

Rega Saturn. Great CD player. Can be had under 1k. 

Good advice... son you got a drinking problem!  Son say, what drinking problem, go to hell!  now to my point , see a doctor and have him give you the blue pill not the red pill! then go home go to bed and wake up in the real world, not in the cd matrix. recommend  40.00 sony playstation 1   with rca audio outputs on rear and enjoy the music for a change, Save all that money burning a hole , back up all your cd,s to hdd by ripping .

imgoodwithtools
 only intend to play Redbook CD's and want a one-box solution.
 

If you want one box players, not dacs, these are the ones.
For finest Redbook replay, as there are no new players built around these dac chips, you want players that used the best implemented (at the time) 2R2 Ladder Multibit Dac in them, the PCM1704"k" selected.

These are my 3 in order, there are more.

1: Naim CD555 with 555 power base
2: Linn Sondek CD-12 MkIII version that has 4 x PCM1704K and PMD200 
3: Esoteric X-01

Cheers George

  

Marantz SA10s1

I would opt for a CEC TL-5. This is an analog sounding transport that is belt driven and gets absolutely rave reviews for under $3K. Go through a dealer. Don't buy off Ebay.

If a quality and statement piece CD is what you want, you can't go past a Yamaha CD-S3000. Look at the specifications! This is not a bit of this and a bit of that OPPO or the like. This is an out and out top end CD/SACD player.

The EAR Yoshino Acute Classic is the best I've heard for REDBOOK cd's.  The most analog sounding I've come across.   Finding one used would be within your budget most likely.   The Acute Classic is the most recent version from EAR, having done Acute 1, 2 and 3 over the past decade or so.  The ACUTE CLASSIC does sound improved over the prior versions, so there are some advancements in sound that would be best to get latest versions of cd players if funds allow.  Digital has improved quite a bit over the last decade, even in strictly redbook cd players.

I cannot recommend the Hegel Mohican...

Like the rest of their players, it simply comes off as a rebadged Opera Audio Consonance CDP, typical of that outfit's efforts in the first 5 years of this millennium.   At $5000, you're spending 2X - 5X for machines that proved historically unreliable and more than decade old technology.

Reading the Herb Reichert Stereophile review, I see two errors:
1.  CLEARLY a Sony (source of most of the problems with the Consonance players) transport / laser, not a Sanyo
2.  Opera Audio Consonance, who OEMs Hegel components, manufactures in China.  The review states in black and white the machine is made in Norway.   As usual, the rear panel does not have a "Made In" statement, but only Hegel - Oslo, Norway, etc.   Personally, I have a real problem with the way Hegel handles this

Disk drives and laser heads wear out.  Some can be replaced, some not.  It makes absolute sense to get a newer or a new unit.  Used Sim 750 and 650, plus Mohican, Bryston BCD-3 and now Primare CD35 would all be on my radar.

i like carver cd-players with 1-bit dacs built in 90's they are hard to beat and will work forever.

FWIW, I had an Esoteric K-03X for awhile.
It was a bit too lean and clinical, IMO. I much prefer the T+A unit.