New Anthem AVM 70 and MRX 740 difference in processing

So you already have a multichannel power amp?
I have been told by a few people at shows, none of whom was trying to sell me anything, that the processor has better parts and sounds better than the AVR.  I was in your position and opted for the AVR without hearing the processor, but at that time, a few months pre covid, the difference was more like $2500

Yes I have multichannel amps for all channels.  I know I know, you always hear the processors use better parts and I get that.  But, on movies/surround, how much does that really matter?   This isn't two channel listening and most of the speakers are either crap, in wall, or behind your head.  

Also, some manufacturers (I believe) use the same internals in their receivers as they do their processors.  I don't know but I would bet that many processors are just the company's receiver without the amps. Hope I'm wrong about that but just a suspicion.  

The new anthem lineup looks really exciting and I've been thinking about the avm70 as well. I think your question is basically the same one I have regarding using separates or integrated. I'm not sure what the answer is. I am.planning on waiting to see what bugs come out and how they review. The release date keeps getting pushed back on all the anthem new lineup products.  Keep in mind there does not seem to be immediate 2.1 hdmi support if that matters to you. 

@mahler123 yep, I'm sure they use some "better" parts, but what makes something "better"?  Just because it's more expensive doesn't make it better. 

Again though, so maybe they use top shelf parts etc etc.  Seems like a lot to play a soundtrack that is already far over bloated, eq'd, and digitized to begin with - through my tv's HDMI.  Like, why so high-end for my little Klipsch surround speakers stuck in weird corners behind my head?  You would never spend an extra $1000 on a preamp for your nice in-wall 2ch system. 

Anyway, still trying to figure out if the AVM is really any better than just the MRX. 

   

Seems like a lot to play a soundtrack that is already far over bloated, eq'd, and digitized to begin with - through my tv's HDMI. Like, why so high-end for my little Klipsch surround speakers stuck in weird corners behind my head? You would never spend an extra $1000 on a preamp for your nice in-wall 2ch system.

Really begs the question why you’d buy a separate multichannel amp?  Why would you spend that much on amp channels where “most of the speakers are either crap, in wall, or behind your head”? Seems like an AVR is really all you ever needed so not sure why you wasted all that money on a separate amp.  And yeah, an AVP is a probably a waste of $ in your situation as you’re apparently not looking for a really high-end HT system.  In fact, you’d probably be better off selling your amp and just buying a Yamaha RX-A2080 that’s great and you can get for $1500 at accessories4less.com.  

I know I know, you always hear the processors use better parts and I get that. But, on movies/surround, how much does that really matter?

If you’re asking that question you really don’t need a prepro. 

Why do I need the amp?  Because I want to send clean power to my other speakers to help them keep up with the Klipschorn mains.  

As for your last statement, after some reading, it appears most people cannot tell a difference in the processing quality between the older MRX720 and AVM60.  There are a few more features on the AVM but just sheer processing power, I'm not sure you could tell.  I want to be wrong though.

Food for thought.. I'll bet I could go into an HT enthusiasts theater and swap out his $5000 whatever processor for a Marantz receiver with similar outputs and he'd never know the difference.  Just a bet.  

Why do I need the amp? Because I want to send clean power to my other speakers to help them keep up with the Klipschorn mains.

What happened to “why so high-end for my little Klipsch surround speakers stuck in weird corners behind my head?” So, the amp is important for these less consequential speakers but the preamp not so much? I don’t get the contradiction. Preamps matter just as much as amps, at least in my experience.

it appears most people cannot tell a difference in the processing quality between the older MRX720 and AVM60.

Based on what data? Have you spoken to “most people,” and how would you even know when that’s the case?

I’ll bet I could go into an HT enthusiasts theater and swap out his $5000 whatever processor for a Marantz receiver with similar outputs and he’d never know the difference. Just a bet.

Well then why are you even here asking if you should buy an AVR or AVP? And yeah, I’d take that bet that I could tell the difference between a transparent, neutral, quality AVP like the AVM70 and the relatively softer, rolled-off treble and overripe mids of a Marantz AVR any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

some manufacturers (I believe) use the same internals in their receivers as they do their processors. I don’t know but I would bet that many processors are just the company’s receiver without the amps

Yes, it’s obviously yet another conspiracy where manufacturers risk their hard-earned reputations by stuffing absurdly overpriced AVPs with inexpensive parts from their AVRs to pad their profits and pull one over on the poor, stupid, gullible HT enthusiasts. Gimme a break already. Just buy the AVR and laugh all the way to the bank thinking you’re too smart to get taken by the malicious and underhanded HT profit agenda.

I have pretty decent speakers in my HT systems, but I opted for the Anthem Receiver in both instead of separates.  In one system I was replacing another AVR, but in the other system I was using a Parasound 5 channel amp with an older Marantz pre pro..  I retained the amp in the basement system and I'm using 
the Anthem MX 570 there just as a preamp, and compared to the old Marantz the improvement is huge.  I suspect the Room Processing has a lot to do with said improvement, and that it would have been money poorly spent to go with separates.
   In your case, since you yourself have a poor opinion of your speakers, which after all are the most important part of any system, it surely would be money wasted to go with separates.  You also state that the main use will be for video and not Music, which again means that (IMO) having a nice system is less important.  With your speakers you won't be able to get very immersive movie sound

@mahler123 I don't have a "poor" opinion of my speakers, it's just that they're inwall or placed in the rear corners behind my head rendering many audiophilly (my word don't use it) terms and qualities useless.  

@soix the amp is to offer more clean power to get the dynamics and volume needed from my other speakers to match the Khorn.  

I just read on some other forums that I consider a little less trustworthy than here about people not telling a difference between a decent receiver vs a decent processor if they're using the pre outs on the receiver.  

@soix the amp is to offer more clean power to get the dynamics and volume needed from my other speakers to match the Khorn.  

Klipsch tend to be extremely efficient speakers and typically don’t need much power at all.  IMO and especially for HT you probably wasted your $ on a separate amp as most any decent AVR has plenty of power for those speakers.  Like I said before, just sell your amp and buy a Yamaha RX-A2080 (or even a 1080 would be fine for your speakers and save you even more $) from accessories4less — I’m sure you’ll be thrilled and have $1000+ more cash in your pocket.  The Yammy has plenty of clean power for your Klipsch, and since preamps apparently don’t matter spending more on the MRX740 would be a stupid waste of money in your case.  Just trying to help here, and best of luck. 

I said my front speakers are Khorns, the in-ceiling/rear are Episode and Klipsch RP600m (surround) which are MUCH less efficient than the front two.  Those are the ones I said I wanted the multichannel amp for.  

While it's very hard to a/b test any of this, I do feel the external amp offers a bit more dynamics and maybe separation but I'm not entirely convinced it's that great of a difference.  It certainly makes cranking the heights/rears much easier to match the big Khorn.

But one reason I'm looking at the Anthem is because I love most all of their products and use their STR preamp in my 2ch setup.  I love the ARC and also love the web interface option on the new units.  

I've found annoying quirks with every receiver I've owned (many Marantz's, Onkyo, and now a Marantz AV 7005 processor). 

When I purchased the Anthem MRX720 I chose that instead of the AVM 60 solely because I wanted a Zone 2 for my backyard speakers and I already had a Parasound 5 channel amp. I did want the better AVM60 but it did not offer that option.

If I were you, I would try the 740 on its own, then if you want a bit more, hook up your external amp. I love my surround system with the 720/parasound amp. I am also looking to add an integrated amp to this system but hopefully can find one that is one or possibly two ticks better than the Anthem str preamp. Not easy, but still looking. 

But as for surround sound, I love it as is. 

Forgot to mention I added an Anthem str amp for the L and R speakers.

I have not had the chance to sit down and audition the Anthem AVM 60 or 70 versus one of their MRX receivers.  I think in your situation you would probably be fine with the receiver. I'm a big fan of 2-ch music though so personally, I would want to go with the superior DAC's in the AVM and use my Aragon amps for the power.

@t-mac thanks for your input.  I'm primarily 2 channel too, but I have another system for that, so I'm not worried about the 2 channel ability of the receiver/processor.

I'm sure I'd be "fine" with the receiver but @soix acts like there would be a major difference so I'm still torn.

To be clear, given the level of your system I think you’d be fine with the MRX520 or the RX-A2080, and again I’d recommend you save 1000 bucks and get the Yammy.  The problem was you implying the AVPs are way overpriced and may be just repackaged AVRs minus the amps without any credible evidence.  If you’re gonna suggest something like that here you should provide facts and not hearsay from a couple dudes on some crappy website.  Peace out. 

If I had credible evidence I wouldn't have asked the question.  I would go denigrate other posters without providing evidence - as you have done. 

I'm looking/searching for credible evidence one way or the other.  That's what a forum is for.

Ah, the old “I’m rubber you’re glue” defense.  Good one, in third grade.  I’ve denigrated no one — just merely pointed out inconsistencies and unfounded statements while trying to stop you from unnecessarily wasting $$$.  Guilty, but I can see how someone with insecurities and limited knowledge could interpret that as denigrating.  Learning is sometimes painful. 

I think the Anthem 520 would drive the rear speakers.  It should be easy enough to insert the 520 as a Preamp, then reattach the speakers to the 520 and do some comparisons.  If you have an Anthem Dealer that will let you borrow the MX 520 for a weekend that would be ideal.  Rears ideally should be for ambiance only in music.
If you can’t demo, then just get the 520 and if you find the power section inadequate for the rears just use the 520 as a preamp.  Most of the improvement will come from the RC, and you don’t need the processor for that as it is the same software in the AVR

@soix that wasn’t a defense. It was a response. Read the first sentence again.. If I had credible evidence to the answer then why do you suppose I would post this topic in the first place? 

I've researched the Anthem products and from what I've read, the Pre-Pro has a better power supply and much better DAC's than the receivers.
I'm sure you could tell a difference, especially in 2-ch listening.  
But since you have a dedicated 2-ch system, I would probably just go with the receiver and be done with it.

Also, some manufacturers (I believe) use the same internals in their receivers as they do their processors.

That’s a statement, not a question.  It’s negative, ignorant, and accusatory.  A question would be: “Do some manufacturers use the same parts in the prepro sections of their AVRs in their AVPs?”  That’s a worthwhile and legitimate question while yours is just a completely uninformed, pigheaded statement.  See the difference?

Well, I said "I believe" meaning I didn't claim to know the absolute answer.  Came here looking for more information that could sway me either way. 

This all coming from a guy who recently asked if an iPhone/iPad is a good streamer source.  Admitting he didn't know the answer and was looking for confirmation.  Which by nature accuses manufacturers like Lumin, Auralic, PS Audio, Mytek, etc of ripping off the market and uncapable of making a streamer better than an iPhone. 

Take a hike.

Nice try butthole. I’ve never compared going direct from idevices to a streamer because I don’t have one, so I was looking for input from people who have and if superior I’m buying probably an Innuos Zen Mk3 streamer. My question in no way implies streamers are a ripoff except in your warped little mind trying in some inane way to imply I said something as stupid as you did. I’ll give you this though, you are very good at making wrongheaded, asinine assumptions. If I was you I would’ve said that I believe streamers use cheap components and probably don’t sound any better than going direct from an idevice, but I’m not a paranoid, conspiracy-theory doofus so I didn’t do that. No wonder you bought a separate amp to power surround speakers in an entry-level HT — now it makes sense. Have fun wasting even more money on an Anthem product of any type for your mediocre, hodgepodge little system that won’t even know the difference. A fool and his money...

Ok Karen. You don't know my "hodgepodge little system" nor does it matter.  You were looking for input on something you didn't know the answer to correct?  That's all I am doing.  

Good lord, has this chicken pecked anyone else's toes on here?

All those words and I still only have little evidence that an AVM is that much better than an MRX.  Better power suppy and better dacs.  That's great, but how important are the dacs and PS to my surround speakers?  Better separation?  I know the theory, but anyone with first hand knowledge between the two.  

Thank you for those of you who do have actual experience with this and chimed in.

Good lord, has this chicken pecked anyone else’s toes on here?

Only the unfounded, ignorant, and/or conspiracy theory toes. They piss me off. Too many kenjit-like conspiracy commandos around here already and don’t need any more so best to nip it in the bud. It’s way overplayed and tiresome.

I don’t get it, why are you guys fighting? Just buy what you prefer.

Original question is still relevant, it would be interesting if someone did a direct comparison between processor and receiver purely for sound quality.

I don’t get it, why are you guys fighting?

Me either and I'm the OP.  He basically threw shade that I would even ask the stupid question in the first place and said something about my crappy system.  I guess that's up for debate but, the question was never really answered.  What makes the AVM $1000 better than the MRX?  Especially when most movies are bloated soundtracks never meant to sound natural, flat, or whatever.  Why spend more on the dacs when the original signal is known to be over-processed in the first place?  Or am I totally wrong?  I'm not sure, which is why I posted.  I didn't want to argue but I also won't be bullied by a fool.

OP. He basically threw shade that I would even ask the stupid question in the first place and said something about my crappy system. I didn’t want to argue but I also won’t be bullied by a fool.

Man, you really are dense.  And simply holding someone accountable for their own words isn’t bullying.  It’s not the question you asked, it was the unfounded, ignorant statements and accusations accompanying your question (that I highlighted above so won’t re-copy that crap here) that I didn’t let pass, and you don’t like being held responsible for your silly statements so you keep pushing it. If you just asked the question without the additional stupidity there wouldn’t be any problem, but if you say something stupid here you best be ready to be called out on it. Or just don’t make any more ignorant, unsupported accusations or assertions, if that’s at all possible for you.

Omg dude go away!  You have done zero to answer the question.  And yes I have some ignorance here, that's why I asked the question in the first place.  But unsupported accusations and assertions?  You literally said this "hodgepodge little system" not having any idea what I own.  You're trying to system shame people now?  

Still haven't got a good answer from you.  I assume you don't know?  Have you ever even owned an anthem product?

@ dmk_hifi I agree I think the original question is still relevant. My understanding is the AVM will use higher quality internals, most importantly the internal DACs will be much better.  

Now, given that, how much importance should be put on this for height, back, and surround speakers.  For 2 channel - absolutely!   But not sure how much this matters in the real world for other channels.

Some people here think the more you spend the better a product is and you're an idiot for thinking otherwise.

Once again because you continue to not get the point.  It’s got nothing to do with the question you asked. You made uninformed, unsubstantiated, conspiracy theory-like assertions that I didn’t let slide because they’re completely bogus and may wrongfully influence people who may not know better than to dismiss them as the useless and paranoid hogwash that they are.

I said my front speakers are Khorns, the in-ceiling/rear are Episode and Klipsch RP600m (surround) which are MUCH less efficient than the front two.

By your own words, your system is a hodgepodge of disparate speakers. You’re just a victim of your own words here and just refuse to take responsibility for them.

some manufacturers (I believe) use the same internals in their receivers as they do their processors. I don’t know but I would bet that many processors are just the company’s receiver without the amps

Completely unfounded conspiracy BS.

it appears most people cannot tell a difference in the processing quality between the older MRX720 and AVM60.

More completely unfounded BS.

I’ll bet I could go into an HT enthusiasts theater and swap out his $5000 whatever processor for a Marantz receiver with similar outputs and he’d never know the difference.

Just pure ignorance.

Yet again, the problem has nothing to do with your initial valid question but rather the absolute crap you’ve been spewing along with it. I’m simply just calling you out on your own words and you don’t like it. Too bad. Just stop spewing it. You’re not getting the answer here so get off your ass and call Anthem who I’m sure will be more than happy to disabuse you of your paranoid beliefs that they use their cheaper receiver parts in their prepros.

All you're saying is that things I've said are "unfounded ignorant BS"..  Fine, then educated me.  I asked the question to learn and got get solid evidence that there truly is a $1000 (or just some qualified difference) in the two. 

If you read on other forums, you'll find people who do NOT hear a difference. Sure, some people wouldn't hear a difference in a $50 speaker and a $5000 speaker, I get that.

And your best answer is to call the manufacturer? I, in fact, have spoken to Anthem.  The answer is that there are better internals and dacs.  However, I don't just believe that "better" from the manufacturer is always better at all. I knew it had different internals.

AFAIK, you pay for the balanced outputs on the AVM.

Yes, the resale is better, but come on, the 740 is sooooo affordable.

I, in fact, have spoken to Anthem. The answer is that there are better internals and dacs.

Well that’s a very lame response from a manufacturer if they didn’t go into any more detail than that.  I took a look at past Anthem threads and @cbrents73 who works for them has provided more detailed info for other members so maybe he’ll chime in here.  If not maybe you can PM him here and get some answers that way.  It’s pretty sad that even the mass market brands do a better job disclosing their technologies than Anthem, who you’d think would want their potential customers to know why they’re paying up for their stuff.  

I owned both 720 and 60.  Had 720 for 6 months, then the 60.  I kept the 60.  Just worked better for me.  Also I have balanced amps.  I believe there is a difference.  Good luck. 👍

Thanks @pcc67 I like hearing your real world experience.  

I rarely post but feel I have some useful personal experience.

Definitely separates.  Everything matters.

Receivers are great but that added power and control you get with a separate amp makes a difference, regardless of what you are listening to.  I'm lucky I have a great system which I've built up over the years.  Wilson speakers, McIntosh front end.  When I upgraded my Marantz pre-pro to the Mac, it wasn't subtle how much better everything sounded.  There is a ceiling on how good you can get it, just depends on the funds.

You can find used 5 channel amps all over the place, then invest in a good prepro.  This gives you more flexibility with upgrading in the future. 

If you have really high end stuff, it's worth pulling the trigger on the better Anthem.  I know it starts to hurt!!!!

Dtx I am not into the whole audiophile magic.  All I can tell you is as you step up it definitely gets better.  I have listened to low grade systems and all in one setups.  I am lucky I have nice speakers and I'm running 7.2.4 setup.  I had the 720 and I personally feel the 60 outperforms it.  I also use 3 very nice amps. Separates are better and if you can swing it, it's worth the extra $$$.  I will eventually be checking out the avm90 just because.   I like anthem and it seems to work very well.  Price is good.  I do look at other processor reviews and anthem seems to be less buggy than the rest. Actually mine has been excellent after I sent it in for an update it has been completely bug free for 8 months and I use it everyday day.  Getting the best sound came when my buddy came over and we ran his rew and then ran arc genesis.  Now it's just fantastic.   Arc alone was not great.  But combo with rew, completely new level.  

Dtx, I heard the new khorns.  They are fantastic.  I am actually thinking of possibly re doing my HT room in klipsch.  

I just bought a mrx740.  It's by far the best sounding receiver I have ever heard.  I have been using it for two channel listening also.  I am very happy with it.  I heard that in the new recievers they were close to seperates in sound and I would agree.  I think you would be happy with that receiver.  I don't use the arc either. I have been enjoying 2 channel listening so much that I have only watched one movie with it lol.  Quite impressive.